Erie Otters 2019-20 Season Thread
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The PP is trash. The coaching is trash. And Murphy has regressed of late. Those are way bigger issues than Fowler right now. Because imo the coaching is to blame for not keeping players in check - hence the inconsistent bulls*** we have seen the last 2.5 years
I don’t even know what to say. Kid is ALWAYS in the box. One night okay, maybe it’s just an off night and then night two? It’s not draft nerves. It’s just being undisciplined. 10 minutes of sitting in the box in two nights for penalties that could be avoided.
I hope he takes this weekend and changes something about his play.
Dhockey16
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Again .. blame the coaching. Fowler had no real penalty issues the first 2 years of his career. So clearly the coaches can’t handle him right now and don’t even know what to do to address it
I agree, the coaching staff isn’t stellar, but the first two years of his career he was coached by Hartsburg. Still coached by Hartsburg to this day. If they could handle him the past two years, why can’t they all of a sudden? It’s on him to play his game as he did the past two years.
He is such a crap bag coach. This team should be playing with so much more chemistry and cohesion. They should also show up with 60 mins of effort on home ice in these types of games (against similar talent/standings race). Instead, they come out flat and finish flat. It’s a joke.
If you asked me do I want to see Erie finish 5/6 seed and even win a playoff round vs 8/9 seed and get smoked in round 1 or miss the playoffs - I will choose the latter. Because I want Hartsburg gone. Fired. Let go. I don’t care. But he has to go. This team plays so uninspired and so undisciplined in front of his leadership. It’s like watching a high school club hockey team that plays week night hockey with no care in the world
It’s complete crap. If Hartsburg is back next year- I’m done. Won’t attend any more games this year/going forward until a new coaching staff is in place. Oh and looks like I’m not the only one because fan support right now in Erie is trash. These fans agree, Hartsburg has to go
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that’s not the point.. the point is that the player himself is not just a chronic undisciplined player. He’s possibly that way now for various reasons - trying too hard (NHL draft year), too much pressure to produce, etc etc etc. he’s been undisciplined. We all get that. Stop trying to focus thread topic on that though when there are 5/6 other bigger issues right now
The coaches seemingly haven’t addressed it all year long with Fowler. I don’t care what they did in the past. In the past.. it wasn’t an issue for Fowler. So what, the coaches can’t adjust or fix things when the going gets tough with a player/team?? That’s a deeper problem and indicative to the coaches - mainly Hartsburg. He doesn’t know how to get a grip on his players. Can’t get them to play consistent or wake up for big games. Can’t get them to fix bad habits. That’s on him. He should have addressed it months ago. Instead he didn’t know how to react to it which is embarrassing when it’s a key piece on this team. They NEED Fowler for his offensive skills. It’s not like it’s Christian Girhiny and you can just say “scratch him.” My point being - Hartsburg should have saw this as an issue and talked with Fowler earlier. Coached him through the bad habits (Because that’s what this is - bad habits) and benched him back in October for “bad” penalties. Small benches like a shift at a time or something of the like. He clearly did nothing as it’s gotten worse. So now I can totally seem him overreacting and just scratching Fowler but imo that solves nothing because it impacts the entire team who needs offense/wins (especially needing to fix their wretched PP). At this point though it’s probably his only option if he actually wants to send that message to Fowler but it never should have gotten to this point if you as the coach wanted the behavior to change
If you have a puppy, do you wait 4/5 months until you start potty training them? Because at that point, the behavior is already learned and now a habit..
I'm not disagreeing that coaching is garbage or that our PP has been abysmal, especially as of late.
But the kid has sat for over 60 minutes this season, he has cost us quite a few PP because his mouth gets him in trouble and he takes asinine penalties time and time again. Benching him is not going to change his hot head mouth. In spite of his offensive production, his stupidity on the ice has cost is at equal or greater value than his point total.
But the kid has sat for over 60 minutes this season, he has cost us quite a few PP because his mouth gets him in trouble and he takes asinine penalties time and time again. Benching him is not going to change his hot head mouth. In spite of his offensive production, his stupidity on the ice has cost is at equal or greater value than his point total.
Austin Swankler is a similar player to Fowler...you always see him jawing with other players, almost the SAME point production and Swankler has half the penalty minutes. Fowler put a target on his back by the officiating and he has no one to blame but himself.
I totally agree with all of this.
Maybe now that he's given a "leadership role" this season as an alternate captain in the whites, it's getting to him. Everyone takes a penalty every once in a while, but he's a chronic case. We need him on the ice and not sitting 2/3 periods a night.
Every team has players like that. Debrincat was the same way. I don’t disagree that Fowler has been undisciplined but again, that’s a new issue (meaning this year its only been a problem). So for me it’s majority of blame going to the coaches for not being able to handle it. They have no control or pulse on this team
I was was also super curious why Campbell didn't start tonight because I agree Murphy seems like he has plateaued and/or started to regress.
If we are making a deep playoff run next year (hypothetical), Campbell is the goaltender to do it.
If we are making a deep playoff run next year (hypothetical), Campbell is the goaltender to do it.
I know it's comparing apples to oranges with two different teams, but penalties are penalties. DeBrincat had 150 regular season PIM his entire career. Fowler has had 68 PIM just this season alone.
I know, two different teams, two different style players but still. There's two different levels of discipline.
We can't compare this team to the DeBrincat squad. They were just too good compared to us now, but it just shows that I predict by the end of this season Fowler will have about 100 PIMs if he keeps it up.
It's frustrating because we know he's good, but he puts us in a position that we shouldn't be in. 2 hooking and 2 slashing penalties yesterday... move your feet.
But maybe i'm wrong.
What to we do with the atrocious PP?
How do we not score two nights in a row on a 5min major?
I think we need to add Hoffmann to the PP unit. He's just due for another goal and imo the most improved player. He's always clicking with his line mates and I don't think they're given enough credit. Cohen is also another candidate that has really hustled all year.
How do we not score two nights in a row on a 5min major?
I think we need to add Hoffmann to the PP unit. He's just due for another goal and imo the most improved player. He's always clicking with his line mates and I don't think they're given enough credit. Cohen is also another candidate that has really hustled all year.
you don’t understand my Debrincat comparison
mostly I was comparing his chirping and hot head that he would get. In many ways his PIMs were not as bad because Erie was good and possessed the puck 65% of most games and always were winning — so less frustration to be had.
Also, I noted Debrincat for the 1 season he had over 1PIMs/game. Fowler, prior to this year had 45 PIMS in 86 games.. hardly undisciplined. But much like Debrincat or Nick Betz or many others once had, he’s having a real bad year of penalties. Still think it’s more on the coaching staff to reel him in
It’s not about changing the units. Putting Hoffmann and Cohen on the PP will not solve anything...
it’s a matter of their actual top forwards and Drysdale practicing better setups and producing
I see 3 issues...
PP2 is non-existent as we are running 2 defenders.
Coaching lacks creativity in the PP...they just pass around the outside the entire time.
Most importantly, we NEED to find 2 people who work extremely well with Drysdale, Golod, and Yetman.
My thoughts would be Fowler, Sopa, Swankler, Lockhart, Hoffman and possibly try D'Amato and/or Sproule who have been playing better as of late IMO.
People to run point on PP2...Hunter or Golden. No reason we shouldn't be running 4 forwards at all times, minus the last 20 - 30 seconds, but that is situational awareness.
I could be wrong, but I think they left PP1 on the ice the entire 5 min PP.
No wonder why they were all gassed towards the end of the game.
There's really no reason to keep them all out that long especially when we have pieces who can score. I get that we want the best unit out there, but 5 mins? I could see playing two mins straight, but at that point bring out PP2. It's just a matter of positioning. Sure, PP1 is the best players and they definitely are and that's why they played the whole 5mins, but we have other guys who can score "when it counts".
Then they have to be on the PK. They're logging huge minutes each night.
But, @Mata I agree with your analysis. We should have had Sopa on the 5 min PP and I don't believe he was on the ice. I like the grit he brings when he gets in front of the goalie.
No wonder why they were all gassed towards the end of the game.
There's really no reason to keep them all out that long especially when we have pieces who can score. I get that we want the best unit out there, but 5 mins? I could see playing two mins straight, but at that point bring out PP2. It's just a matter of positioning. Sure, PP1 is the best players and they definitely are and that's why they played the whole 5mins, but we have other guys who can score "when it counts".
Then they have to be on the PK. They're logging huge minutes each night.
But, @Mata I agree with your analysis. We should have had Sopa on the 5 min PP and I don't believe he was on the ice. I like the grit he brings when he gets in front of the goalie.
As far as the Debrincat v Fowler comparison...
Debrincat had a bad first year with regards to minutes/game but his minutes/game went down the next 2 season's.
GP/Pim
14/15 68/73
15/16 60/28
16/17 63/49
Fowler's curve shows the opposite to be true. So as he is maturing, or should be, his minutes are going up.
17/18 28/18
18/19 25/11
19/20 43/68
Also to note, though they were 2 different teams by a lot, Debricat was always a 1+ ppg and one season 2+ ppg player and Fowler has yet to hit that.
Debrincat had a bad first year with regards to minutes/game but his minutes/game went down the next 2 season's.
GP/Pim
14/15 68/73
15/16 60/28
16/17 63/49
Fowler's curve shows the opposite to be true. So as he is maturing, or should be, his minutes are going up.
17/18 28/18
18/19 25/11
19/20 43/68
Also to note, though they were 2 different teams by a lot, Debricat was always a 1+ ppg and one season 2+ ppg player and Fowler has yet to hit that.
Fowler was also a 1st round pick and DeBrincat was a FA.
Fowler was slated to be exceptional and DeBrincat was passed over by everyone.
What does that have to do with anything??? Seriously .. what does that have to do with anything?
my point was just that many players have at least one season of higher PIMs. Betz, Maksimovich had years later in their career where they had high PIMs. I can find plenty more for you if you want to keep acting like this PIM issue with Fowler is this significant issue that has never happened before
The point is that Fowler, prior to this year, was not really having an issue with this. Now all the sudden he has developed bad habits. That to me is on the coaching staff for not addressing it. It’s not a situation like Dane Fox where clearly he had always been that type of player that took PIMs. Fowler isn’t that player but has shown it this year. Wouldn’t surprise me if next year he has 35/40 PIMs.
you all are overreacting too it. Erie lost yesterday because they had a horrendous first period effort.. to which Hartsburg had a classic response for after the game of “I don’t know why” (lol he never has any answers). That allowed them to go down 2-0. Fowler had a roughing call in the first that was evened up with an OS player. I see no issue with that.
Then in the second period Erie actually shows some life but the second they get a lead, they allow OS to tie it back up. They go into the 3rd and fall behind again. But they are given a chance mid 3rd with a 5 min PP and can’t score a freaking goal, let alone 2 goals to win it. Fowler takes a hooking penalty with 30 seconds left when the game is way past over.. so honestly .. who cares?
His 4 PIMs had ZERO impact on the loss last night. The coaching didn’t have them geared up to go, the players (like always with this team) couldn’t show up early in a big game on home ice, Murphy has been poor lately, and the PP has been hot garbage
that’s why they lost. Nothing to do with Fowler last night. Carry on.
Really can’t comment directly as of course being in SW Ontario we don’t get to see Erie play a ton. But reading the comments seems to confirm the team has tuned out the coaches. PP and Discipline really for the most part are on the coaches. Same bodies for a 5 minute power play, crazy. In London Dale loves his vets but even he doesn’t try that. Granted he has job security as he would have to fire himself! Just seems like the boys have lost faith in what they are preaching?
Good Luck if you can get in the playoffs you never know? I for one thought Erie would be much higher in the standings. Not on top necessarily but solidly in a playoff position.
Good Luck if you can get in the playoffs you never know? I for one thought Erie would be much higher in the standings. Not on top necessarily but solidly in a playoff position.
A breakdown of Fowler’s penalties show that he has 18 mins this year for slashing and 10 mins for hooking. Those are both very undisciplined penalties where you can’t keep your stick on the ice and like I speculated before with him — where you are trying desperately to get possession of the puck/make a play. These are all bad habits and can be taught and learned. They aren’t that difficult to fix if addressed ..
This isn’t a situation where Fowler has 18 PIMs for unsportsmanlike/roughing and another 10 PIMs for cross checking/boarding type penalties that indicate he’s a hot head and off the rails. He actually only 12 PIMs in those combined categories this year, and 4 of those PIMs were evened up with opposing player.
This isn’t a situation where Fowler has 18 PIMs for unsportsmanlike/roughing and another 10 PIMs for cross checking/boarding type penalties that indicate he’s a hot head and off the rails. He actually only 12 PIMs in those combined categories this year, and 4 of those PIMs were evened up with opposing player.
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