Discussion in 'Soccer' started by spintheblackcircle, Aug 11, 2017.
You underrate Lacazette IMO. He could score 20 easily.
I'll take Firmino over Lacazettr any day. Sanchez is better than Mane but Salah is better than the leftover option from Arsenal. I think City have the best attack though.
Anyway I'm not worried.
He probably will. But they don't really have a third scorer who will start 30 games. Pretty much anyone would take Sanchez and Lacazette over Salah and Mane, but I wouldn't take their third player over Firmino. Could be Ox some weeks, Walcott some other weeks, Iwobi, Welbeck sometimes, etc. It's good to have depth but I think I'd rather have three players who are a sure thing to start when fit.
Let me write that down...
Forgot Ozil...good for 8 goals 12 assists...
Question is : what are your goals expectations for your front 3?
Salah : 15 goals? (his best total yet in his career)
Sane 20 goals? (his best is 13)
Firmino 15 goals? (never scored more than 11 in the EPL)
Something along those lines? That, you will admit, are seriously optimistic totals.
Sanchez 25 (like last year)
Lacazette 20 (I think that's a reasonnable expectation)
Third guy? Needs 5 goals to equal your guys.
So... your argument is seriously debatable.
Also Giroud scored 12 goals off the bench last year, in half the playing time than that of a guy like Mane. He may even end up starting sooner or later. So yeah, I'd take Giroud, Lacazette and Alexis over the Liverpool trio.
City are clearly the best though.
I did forget, yes.
So with Sanchez, Lacazette, and Ozil, you probably have 48-52 goals there. Maybe less. Definitely not more. That's with Sanchez scoring 24, Lacazette 20, Ozil 8. I don't think Sanchez can do that again, but he played so well last season he might. I think he had the best individual campaign of any attacker in the league.
With Mane, Salah, and Firmino, you should have anywhere from 15-20 from the first two. I don't think that's a high count either. Firmino is a wildcard there. He scored only 11 goals last season but he also played far too many minutes and got so fatigued he could hardly play towards the end of the season.
I think Salah will score 20. Mane 17, Firmino 15. If all are healthy of course. Obviously it's optimistic in the case of Salah and Mane but they're the right age to push on and hit the next level. Firmino is taking set pieces and penalties now so he should score that many anyway. Would be a failure season if he didn't.
And even still with all that, they won't finish top four .
Yawn, another one of your "I disagree with you, but because I disagree with you, you have no idea about football or players in your life" type of post. People who post this way are ones who really have no argument or a weak argument.
And what about Seri? I called him Cazorla 2.0 and so what? He might not play like him to a tee, but the centralized strengths of the two players are quite comparable that he should have the same impact for any team he goes to (even if he decides to stay at Nice). That's what I meant when I said that.
Only if he could spell his name correctly, would his argument be stronger.
Lets not go into strange positions pick different players.
We just need to do a LW, ST, and RW and Arsenal, Spurs, and Man City are all still better than Liverpool.
Sanchez > Mane
Lacazette > Firmino
Salah >= Ox/Welbeck/Iwobi/Walcott
Again I said that Salah is the more talented player, but Arsenal's players aren't that bad compared to Mohamed and Arsenal as a team have much better depth. Players go through inconsistent runs and Arsenal have the talent to replace one of the RW's when they eventually go on a scoreless bout like Salah is obviously GOING to go through as every player does.
Firmino provides so much more than goals. But he'll have more goals + assists than Lacazette and he'll certainly create a lot more chances.
You missed it when someone compared Seri to Jonjo Shelvey. He got compared to Ozil too which is bizarro stuff.
Oh wait that was you.
If we play 3-4-3 Ozil and Sanchez are LW-RW...
Nice season start. Burnley beating up the Blues and Huddersfield trashing Palace. If the Hammers upset United at the Old Trafford tomorrow, it'll become a nearly perfect weekend.
Cool to think Lacazette brings NOTHING but goals, according to you.
You really seem to know him, don't you?
Anyway, that's a rich projection you make, seemingly without any doubt too.
Firmino put up a whopping 11 goals+7 assists in his best EPL season. While only missing 3 games.
If Lacazette scores 20, I don't think he needs to worry since he'll have a few more assists to add. Firmino's best overall season in his career saw him count for 28 goals (16+12).
Lacazette SCORED 28 just last year (in 5 less games).
Knowing you, you'll say "meh, EPL goals count double compared to L1 goals".
Well, in european competitions, Firmino has a career 1+2 in 13 games. Lacazette had 7+1 just last year.
Yes and you projected Zlatan would win the scoring title without any doubt. We could bet if you like but I'm pretty confident he will outproduce Lacazette while also providing much more off the ball.
Lol, Zlatan still scored more than Firmino, while providing more besides goals.
And you're also the guy who said you never projected Liverpool to finish top 4, even when I linked you to your prediction post that stated you had them top 4.
So we know what you word stands for.
I said I didn't expect top 4. There's a difference. Though I'm not sure how that's relevant to what we're discussing anyway. It's okay Lacazette will be a useful player like Zlatan was. He will probably guide his team to 6th aswell. Respectable contributions. Firmino will lead his team to the top 4 though so, it is what it is.
It's ok there will be no argument when both teams are fighting each other for 5th place.
Firmino won't be the one leading Liverpool to a top 4 finish if they finish there, definitely feel like Mane or Salah would be the ones taking the reigns.
Watching MOTD right now. Cahill tackle was never a red.
I don't know why people have Spurs finishing top 4 without any questions. Their pressing system worked well on the tiny pitch at WHL. Wembley is a much larger pitch and based on their results in Europe their system didn't work out.
Man U and Man City look to be the ones guaranteed in the top 4.
Chelsea: Going in with the same depth as last year but now must compete in Europe.
Liverpool: Coutinho going, possibly no other new signings and possibly a rift between manager and the board.
Arsenal: Questions regarding Sanchez and Ox staying. Possibly no other new signings.
Tottenham: New home on a wider pitch and no new signings so far.
Any of those 4 teams above can finish outside of top 4.
I wouldn't go so far as to say without any questions, but they have a better manager than Arsenal. They also have solidity in goalkeeping, defense, tactical adaptability, midfield, and forward play. Main weakness is obviously depth.
Arsenal and Liverpool are all lacking at least one or two of those. It's debatable of course but in Arsenal's case I would say they lack goalkeeping to some extent, solid defending to some extent, and midfield to a bigger extent.
Liverpool lack defending, have absolutely zero midfield depth, and unless Mignolet plays at his best they lack good goalkeeping. Klopp's idea at the end of the season to play tactically for 1-0's came off well but there will be times before the end of the season that he needs to do that, so I want to see him do that then.
But really any of these teams except City could finish out of the top four. Would never say that a team who still plays Fellaini and Lingard is guaranteed top four.
I think this is a very fair assessment. Kudos.
All the top 6 have question marks. Like last season no order of finish would be surprising to me.
Separate names with a comma.