Proposal: EP for EEk

[wetcoast]

The issue with this is, they needed quality depth to help them go farther in the playoffs. They had 4 point per game players and 3 100+ point players.

Minnesota's dead cap exceeds McDavid's cap hit. So we are already out super star money.

If you perform the 1-for-1 Ek for EP trade on CapFriendly, Minnesota has $4m in cap space with 17 of 23 roster spots accounted for. How would one even make that work? And before you say "just trade Spurgeon" or something similar:

1) He has a 10 team NTC.
2) Minnesota is not going to pay someone to take him
3) Most trades involve cap coming back

If Minnesota had endless money, then yeah we would take EP for sure.

Don't worry about the last part the Canucks aren't offering him up.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Don't worry about the last part the Canucks aren't offering him up.

Don't worry, we didn't ask.

 

[ThatGuy22]

This is annoying. Let's crowd source it. I'll edit Vancouver description as the argument is presented.

Who says no: JEE vs EP

Infuriating long thread on the trade board over a Joel Eriksson Ek va Elias Pettersson 1v1 trade. I'll try sum up the arguments, granted I know the Wilds argument better, but if a Vancouver wants me to edit theirs I will. EP is better, so there is more nuance on the Wild side. Wild: JEE is a...

forums.hfboards.com

Not sure why, but poll got nuked.

 

[biturbo19]

I mean it depends who the EEk team will sign. If they sign an overpriced sucker then they can blame themselves only...

And of course, what team wouldn't jump at the opportunity to move a young, Top-5ish Center...for a downgrade and the opportunity to sign an, "overpriced sucker"!

 

[Regal]

I’m really not seeing the cap issues here. It’s tight but absolutely workable.

Based on the projected 87.7 M cap for next year, you still have 5.1M with a need for a backup goalie, a #6 dman, two 4th line forwards, plus scratched players. They could do it with all making under a million and/or not having a full 23 man roster. If need be they could move one of Middleton or Gaudreau and replace them with million dollar guy or try to move one of the NMC players

Then the following year, you end up with 30 million to sign Faber and Rossi and flesh out the roster based on the projected 92 million cap. Again, it would be tight but totally doable. Then Zuccarello would off the books the year after, etc.

Not that I really care because I would want Van to do this, but I maintain my position in the poll that was closed that Minny would be stupid not to do this

 

[PettersonHughes]

This thing I'm about to do is going to paint the image that I think JEE is the better player, and that's not my intention. I think I don't have enough information to truly decide who the better player is.

That said, these are the Selke votes from the two years prior to the image you showed:
View attachment 825935
View attachment 825937

Not shown is Pettersson, because he didn't get any votes. If we're talking seriously about the Selke being a recognition for defensive play, I'll take the guy who has multiple years of top-10 consideration over the guy who had one year. I've found that lots of guys with just ok defensive play but a healthy amount of points and high+/- get votes in some years, where the actually best defensive players get votes year after year.
As an example, Mikael Granlund got votes one year for this trophy, and while I think he's solid defensively, I have to add the caveat, for a winger. He was voted ahead of Marian Hossa, Anze Kopitar, and Aleksander Barkov. Do you think Granlund is a better defensive player than those three? Do you think he was even in just that year?

Right. Because it's impossible for a #1 center to ascend to become worthy of consideration. Do you think that comparing Granlund to Petey is really all that reasonable? I know you're trying to make a point but you lost me and many others here.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

How about Kaprizov for Hoglander?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I’m really not seeing the cap issues here. It’s tight but absolutely workable.

Based on the projected 87.7 M cap for next year, you still have 5.1M with a need for a backup goalie, a #6 dman, two 4th line forwards, plus scratched players. They could do it with all making under a million and/or not having a full 23 man roster. If need be they could move one of Middleton or Gaudreau and replace them with million dollar guy or try to move one of the NMC players

View attachment 826354

View attachment 826355

Then the following year, you end up with 30 million to sign Faber and Rossi and flesh out the roster based on the projected 92 million cap. Again, it would be tight but totally doable. Then Zuccarello would off the books the year after, etc.

View attachment 826362

View attachment 826363

Not that I really care because I would want Van to do this, but I maintain my position in the poll that was closed that Minny would be stupid not to do this

We still have ~$14M in dead cap next year.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

How about Kaprizov for Hoglander?

Kaprizov: 1.24 ppg
Pettersson: 1.23 ppg
Eriksson Ek: .93 ppg
Hoglander: .43 ppg

An exceptionally well thought out counter.

 

[Regal]

We still have ~$14M in dead cap next year.

Those numbers are including that

 

[BagHead]

Right. Because it's impossible for a #1 center to ascend to become worthy of consideration. Do you think that comparing Granlund to Petey is really all that reasonable? I know you're trying to make a point but you lost me and many others here.

Sure, the point is that making it onto the list once is good and all, and he may indeed be developing defensively (he probably is!), but I've also seen guys who are merely competent at defense get a good share of votes because they had a year where they scored a lot of points and had a good +/- stat, and I don't yet know which of those categories Pettersson's votes are from.

I showed those additional years because you seemed to be implying that JEE is merely approaching Pettersson's level at defense, when I believe the opposite is more likely. Your post demanded context, so I provided some.

I'm sorry you didn't like the Granlund example. It was merely that, an example of the situation I am describing from the first paragraph in this post, it was not a player comparison. We can instead look at Panarin, who finished above Mikael Backlund in Selke voting one year, if you prefer. The point is, guys who are worse at defense finish in front of guys who are better at defense in the Selke vote sometimes. If Pettersson starts to do it regularly, I'll then know he's the real deal at it.

 

[Al Lagoon]

EP for EEK, no way.
EEP for EEK might get my attention. Missing a letter.

 

[Kshahdoo]

And of course, what team wouldn't jump at the opportunity to move a young, Top-5ish Center...for a downgrade and the opportunity to sign an, "overpriced sucker"!

Fans tend to undervalue cap space untill when their teams get a few pricy players and no room for improvements and still lose...

 

[WaW]

EP + $1M player vs EEk + $7M (or even $8M) player, who would you rather have?

It's not even close, and it's not the answer you think.

When you look at the extremely overwhelming rate of Stanley cup winners since the 04 lockout who have a top 10ish center, that position *should* eat up about as much cap space as high end NFL QBs do...approx 17-19% particularly when they're on the ice about 40% of the time during the playoffs (not too dissimilar to QBs who are on the field about 45% of the time...but top 10 QBs win super bowls at a surprisingly lower rate than NHL top 10 1Cs.

Pretty much all of them are undervalued. Give me Pettersson by himself over whatever combination you're putting together with EEK

 

[Play]

It's not even close, and it's not the answer you think.

When you look at the extremely overwhelming rate of Stanley cup winners since the 04 lockout who have a top 10ish center, that position *should* eat up about as much cap space as high end NFL QBs do...approx 17-19% particularly when they're on the ice about 40% of the time during the playoffs (not too dissimilar to QBs who are on the field about 45% of the time...but top 10 QBs win super bowls at a surprisingly lower rate than NHL 1Cs.

Pretty much all of them are undervalued. Give me Pettersson by himself over whatever combination you're putting together with EEK

Nailed it

 

[BagHead]

It's not even close, and it's not the answer you think.

When you look at the extremely overwhelming rate of Stanley cup winners since the 04 lockout who have a top 10ish center, that position *should* eat up about as much cap space as high end NFL QBs do...approx 17-19% particularly when they're on the ice about 40% of the time during the playoffs (not too dissimilar to QBs who are on the field about 45% of the time...but top 10 QBs win super bowls at a surprisingly lower rate than NHL 1Cs.

Pretty much all of them are undervalued. Give me Pettersson by himself over whatever combination you're putting together with EEK

That's an interesting take on it! I would be curious to know how many of those top-10ish centers were already earning their biggest contract when they won the Cup, and how many were not. I'm not really sure how to go about finding that without doing a bunch of leg work. Maybe if I'm not busy later I'll check into that.

 

[WaW]

That's an interesting take on it! I would be curious to know how many of those top-10ish centers were already earning their biggest contract when they won the Cup, and how many were not. I'm not really sure how to go about finding that without doing a bunch of leg work. Maybe if I'm not busy later I'll check into that.

Not 100% sure but I'll bet more of them were earning top dollar than QBs who were earning top dollar on super bowl winners too. Off the top of my head there's Datsyuk, Crosby's last two, Toews' last two, Stamkos x2, Backstrom, Eichel.

In the NFL during that same span it's basically just Peyton's Colts SB (he wasnt remotely close to being a top 10 QB when Denver won), Stafford and Mahomes' last two, and Brady's Tampa win (he always took rare and uncharacteristic (of a superstar) discounts in NE)

 

[FerrisRox]

I don't think this deal is as lopsided as first glance might make it appear. JEE is one of the most underrated players in the league. I'm also high on EP though. If EP is going to be at 12M per then this is a fair deal.

No, it's not. It's not remotely fair for Vancouver.

 

[Double Dion]

No, it's not. It's not remotely fair for Vancouver.

I can see why you'd think that if you aren't that familiar with JEE. As an example I don't think the difference provided by EP and McDavid is that large because EP is so much better defensively. On the surface it looks like McDavid is vastly superior, but when you dig deeper you realize he gives up so much defensively it makes their impact on wins and losses very similar.

It's the same thing with JEE. When you dig deeper EP is still the more impactful player, but it's not by much more than McDavid is over EP. If you add in the 7M in cap savings annually if anything JEE is more valuable than EP. I really like both players and don't have a bias really to it. I just know how impactful guys like JEE, Danault and Backlund are defensively. They cancel out elite players. Backlund and Danault bring 2nd line offense though. JEE still brings first line (albeit not elite 1st line) offense.