GDT: Enough family stuff, it's hockey time | Wings @ Preds | 8 PM ET

[sean3250]

Not a huge fan of Blashills line combos this season. Especially his defense pairings. Can we please get a coach who will put players who can score with Datsyuk for once? Here are the defense pairings I'd like to see while Ericsson is out. Just say NO to Kindl.

Dekeyser-Green

Kronwall-Marchenko

Oulette-Smith



Edit* forgot that Xavier was sent down already

Dekeyser can not handle top line minutes. He is not good enough offensively or defensively to be playing 24-25 minutes a night. He'd get exposed quickly going up against team's best players.

 

[obey86]

I've never really considered kronwall to be slow.
Lidstrom wasn't the fastest skater and neither were any of his partners.

Kronwall is a much better passer, much smarter, and much better positionally than Kronwall ever was. Kronwall has definitely slowed down, and significantly.

 

[obey86]

Dekeyser can not handle top line minutes. He is not good enough offensively or defensively to be playing 24-25 minutes a night. He'd get exposed quickly going up against team's best players.

Neither can Kronwall at this point, but we play him there.

 

[HIFE]

Dekeyser can not handle top line minutes. He is not good enough offensively or defensively to be playing 24-25 minutes a night. He'd get exposed quickly going up against team's best players.

I guess we'll see tonight. D pairs per Roose-

Kronwall-DeKeyser
Smith-Green
Kindl-Marchenko

Anyone know why Blash originally split up Green and Kronwall? Also how/why did Smith jump ahead of Marchenko in the 2nd pair? Don't see the point in juggling the D...

 

[SoupGuru]

Dekeyser can not handle top line minutes. He is not good enough offensively or defensively to be playing 24-25 minutes a night. He'd get exposed quickly going up against team's best players.

You don't really like DeKeyser, do you? Do you really think DeKeyser has been playing sheltered minutes up to this point?

 

[sean3250]

Neither can Kronwall at this point, but we play him there.

That is true. IMO, Dekeyser has been average while playing top 4 minutes. I don't see how increasing his ice time by 3-5 minutes against better competition is going to help his play improve. Who knows, maybe he jumps in and does better than Kronwall is doing. Anything that helps this team is a welcome sight of course.

Kronwall plays on the top pairing because someone has too. I'd have no problem bumping him down a pair, but I don't see anyone on the team who can replace his 24-25 minutes a night. Mike Green doesn't even play that much ice time, and his numbers are basically the same as Kronwall (not sure about advanced stats).

So while everyone may hate Kronwall's play right now, he still plays the most IT out of anyone on our team by a decent margin. He's 35,plays the most ice time, and is declining. Why doesn't Blashill (or even Babs when he was coaching) reduce his minutes and bump him down a pair. Maybe its because they didn't believe anyone else could step up properly and do the job better than Kronwall. What does that say about the other D on this team if they can't beat out a 35 year old, declining D for top pairing minutes?

I can easily see Kronwall doing much better if he was playing Dekeyser's minutes and situations. I don't think Dekeyser would do better increasing his ice time against better competition.

 

[sean3250]

You don't really like DeKeyser, do you? Do you really think DeKeyser has been playing sheltered minutes up to this point?

He's just fine in a Top 4 role. I don't think he has the ability to play on the top pairing. Will he in the future? Possibly, although I wouldn't put money on it.

Dekeyser is what he is, which is a solid #3-4 guy. More of a #4 on a Cup contender imo.

I guess I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum than some posters who believed that Dekeyser was the next Kronwall (the good version) or even worse Duncan Keith

 

[obey86]

That is true. IMO, Dekeyser has been average while playing top 4 minutes. I don't see how increasing his ice time by 3-5 minutes against better competition is going to help his play improve. Who knows, maybe he jumps in and does better than Kronwall is doing. Anything that helps this team is a welcome sight of course.

Kronwall plays on the top pairing because someone has too. I'd have no problem bumping him down a pair, but I don't see anyone on the team who can replace his 24-25 minutes a night. Mike Green doesn't even play that much ice time, and his numbers are basically the same as Kronwall (not sure about advanced stats).

So while everyone may hate Kronwall's play right now, he still plays the most IT out of anyone on our team by a decent margin. He's 35,plays the most ice time, and is declining. Why doesn't Blashill (or even Babs when he was coaching) reduce his minutes and bump him down a pair. Maybe its because they didn't believe anyone else could step up properly and do the job better than Kronwall. What does that say about the other D on this team if they can't beat out a 35 year old, declining D for top pairing minutes?

I can easily see Kronwall doing much better if he was playing Dekeyser's minutes and situations. I don't think Dekeyser would do better increasing his ice time against better competition.

Kronwall plays just 2 more minutes per game than DDK (not 3-5)......most of which can probably be explained by Kronwall playing on the PP and DDK not playing on the PP. Also, Kronwall isn't really matched against top lines anymore than DDK is....as the advanced stats show they basically play equal competition. In addition, Kronwall is sheltered with many more offensive zone starts than DDK is. DDK gets the toughest zone starts 5v5 put of anyone on the team except Ericsson while Kronwall is the 2nd most sheltered (with OZ starts) in that regard.

 

[sean3250]

Kronwall plays just 2 more minutes per game than DDK (not 3-5)......most of which can probably be explained by Kronwall playing on the PP and DDK not playing on the PP. Also, Kronwall isn't really matched against top lines anymore than DDK is....as the advanced stats show they basically play equal competition. In addition, Kronwall is sheltered with many more offensive zone starts than DDK is. DDK gets the toughest zone starts 5v5 put of anyone on the team except Ericsson while Kronwall is the 2nd most sheltered (with OZ starts) in that regard.

I addressed the first part about IT in the other thread. Kronwall deserves the PP time. Dekeyser doesn't.

Not trying to discount advanced stats or anything like that, but last time I checked according to those our best D are Kindl and Smith.

I'm also going to assume Kronwall gets more O zone starts because he plays with Green. Green leads the team in O zone starts at over 60%. It makes sense he'd play with his partner in the O and D zone. You usually want to give your best offensive D a majority of the O zone starts. Dekeyser plays with Ericcson who both get the least amount of O zone starts. Makes sense and that might be because they are much better at defense than they are at offense.

Is Qualcomp really a great stat to go by? It's an advanced stat based entirely off of +/-

Using other advanced stats, Kronwall has a better Corsi, GF/60, SF/60, SA/60. Kronwall has also drawn more penalities and commited fewer penalties himself.

I also looked and found out that Dekeyser has a better P/60 than Green does too. Does that make him better offensively than Green?

 

[SoupGuru]

I also looked and found out that Dekeyser has a better P/60 than Green does too. Does that make him better offensively than Green?

Yes. Yes it does make him better offensively than Green at even strength. That's what points/60 means, right?

Or....?

Am I missing something?

 

[sean3250]

Yes. Yes it does make him better offensively than Green at even strength. That's what points/60 means, right?

Or....?

Am I missing something?

I always assumed P/60 dealt with both ES and PP time. I may be wrong, and please correct me if so, because I am not a huge follower of advanced stats.

Dekeyser has played in 30 games and has 9 ESP.

Green has played 28 games and has 7 ESP.

I don't think the fact that Dekeyser has 2 more ES points in 2 more games means he's better at ES. Green could (and probably will) catch up with Dekeyser in the next 5 games or so.

 

[Frk It]

Yes. Yes it does make him better offensively than Green at even strength. That's what points/60 means, right?

Or....?

Am I missing something?

Yeah, the guy not good enough to earn a spot on the PP on a team with a below average defense is totally offensively better than Green, who has been a top notch offensive defenseman forever...

All that stat means is Green is underperforming, which we already knew. Kronwall and Green are offensive defenseman and most of their production comes from the PP, which has been **** thanks to Ferschweiler.

 

[joe89]

Green has been pretty damn snakebit, he should've had more goals at this point. Feels like he's creating twice as much offense as Kronwall but their production so far is similar. Hope both can get going.

 

[theYman]

Oh yeah USA baby!! Take that Canada. Now we,just need to win tonight. Beat them Preds! Go Wings!

 

[theYman]

Our first game without Larkin. Ugh!I hope the lines don't suck too much. Nyquist should do good on the top line. Would like to see what Nosek can do. I hope he's better than Andersson.

 

[chances14]

Osgood back in the booth

 

[obey86]

I addressed the first part about IT in the other thread. Kronwall deserves the PP time. Dekeyser doesn't.

Not trying to discount advanced stats or anything like that, but last time I checked according to those our best D are Kindl and Smith.

I'm also going to assume Kronwall gets more O zone starts because he plays with Green. Green leads the team in O zone starts at over 60%. It makes sense he'd play with his partner in the O and D zone. You usually want to give your best offensive D a majority of the O zone starts. Dekeyser plays with Ericcson who both get the least amount of O zone starts. Makes sense and that might be because they are much better at defense than they are at offense.

Is Qualcomp really a great stat to go by? It's an advanced stat based entirely off of +/-

Using other advanced stats, Kronwall has a better Corsi, GF/60, SF/60, SA/60. Kronwall has also drawn more penalities and commited fewer penalties himself.

I also looked and found out that Dekeyser has a better P/60 than Green does too. Does that make him better offensively than Green?

**That's fine and dandy and I never denied that. I'm simply giving you some context as to why Kronwall plays just 2 more minutes per game than DDK. Not because Kronwall's better defensively, not because Kronwall's better against opponent's #1 lines, not because Kronwall produces for offense 5v5......but simple because he's a better power play QB.

**There is an argument to be made that Smith has been better than Kronwall this year as well. That's seriously how poor Kronwall has played. I don't think you quite realize how bad he has played and how much he has hurt the team 5v5.

**I'm sure playing with Green is part of it. But the fact that (compared to DDK) at 5v5 Kronwall is producing less offense despite playing with a better offensive linemate and getting more offensive zone starts isn't a good thing. It means Kronwall is in a better position to produce offense yet is producing less than the non-offensive d-man having a disappointing offensive year (per you).

**You are incorrect on a few of these these statements as at 5v5 Kronwall (compared to DDK) has a worse GF/60 and a worse GA/60. With more offensive zone starts it would be expected that Kronwall has a better corsi, SF/60, and SA/60. and Kronwall is barely ahead in SF/60 and SA/60. Nearly a negligible difference between the two players in that regard (about 1 shot difference per 60 minutes).

 

[WooPigSooie]

Alright guys, quit yer b!+(hin' and put on your big boy jerseys.. Christmas is done and it's time for some Red Wing hockey!!

 

[chances14]

Nashville's jerseys are so bad

 

[Ezekial]

No GT???



Those yellow helmets :puke:

 

[WooPigSooie]

Ketchup vs Mustard tonight boys

 

[aar000n]

Smaller players thrive just as long as the other team doesn't decide to board you.

 

[WooPigSooie]

i Dont care what the preds like .. that color is mustard

 

[Heaton]

Converted this to the GDT.

 

[chances14]

Smith!