GDT: End of Season Address + Locker Clean Out (Dubas says he can't guarantee Babcock back next season)

[Suntouchable13]

Of course he does, they have a very bright future.

They do, but the talent on this roster has to be better utilized. Can't coach a game 7 like you would a game in mid-January.

 

[Gallagbi]

Will miss playoffs next year!

That's the spirit!

 

[Daisy Jane]

tomorrow truly is a day i hope the Toronto media, Toronto medias, and ask ruthless questions to Babcock and Dubas.

 

[Mugzy97]

Will miss playoffs next year!

I'd bet a lot of money that Leafs are in a playoff position next April.

 

[Mugzy97]

They do, but the talent on this roster has to be better utilized. Can't coach a game 7 like you would a game in mid-January.

I kind of agree with you, but it's impossible to know if a few decisions around ice time and lineups would have made a difference or not. I understand why a lot of people are blaming coaching and are upset, but at the end of the day we lost to a very good team.

 

[robertmac43]

Not at all excited to see some of the out there media takes in the coming days....

 

[Einzakin]

If Marner gets over 10, Dubas can get the **** out too.

I think Marner should get about 10.

Seems fair to me. He was awesome all year. Had an okayish playoffs, won us a game single handedly. Didn't do much towards end of series but played some decent D. We expect him to keep improving.

 

[Subway Schenn]

It sucks! Boston kept with us initially and then scored two very opportunistic goals.

With a few moves we should be back in a decent position next year but what a chance blown with Tampa, Pittsburgh, etc. already out of the mix!

 

[Subway Schenn]

I think Marner should get about 10.

Seems fair to me. He was awesome all year. Had an okayish playoffs, won us a game single handedly. Didn't do much towards end of series but played some decent D. We expect him to keep improving.

Yup, Marner's 10 to Auston's 11.634 seems about right. Maybe 9.5 if we're lucky.

 

[saffronleaf]

So, end of playoffs player ratings. I'll keep it short. Will likely take a hiatus from the boards over the summer after this. Grades are more about satisfaction with their performance than purely how good they were. Here goes:

Matthews - ***** | Looked like a franchise player this series. Very happy with his performance.
Johnsson - **** | Quietly was effective both even strength and on the PP. He performed really well for us.
Kapanen - ** | Kapanen showcased all the flaws in his game this series. Used speed to create room, negated it with bad shots. His tunnel vision robbed Matthews of some of his best chances.
Tavares - *** | All in all, we needed more from our new star center. Good job against the Bergeron line, but at the end they were on the losing side at ES and didn't get it done on the PP.
Hyman - ** | Wasn't quite the normal Hyman. Good pest, but couldn't bring his board game to full life.
Marner - *** | Gonna take heat here, but I think Marner reached 12 GA in this series. Part of an awful PK, his line had a bad differential, and in the end we needed more from our superstar.
Nylander - *** | Gonna take heat here, but I think Nylander's series was the definition of decent. Did what you could expect given his usage, no more and no less.
Marleau - * | Could be the worst PP player I've seen in years. Komarov was better. For a few games, every play he made on the PP killed the attack. He gave us nothing.
Brown - ** | Brown looks like Gauthier with the puck. Actually, he looks worse. PK work solidifies his rating.
Gauthier - ** | He was 6'5" somewhere.
Ennis - **** | Ennis came in and energized our fourth line. I really liked him.
Moore - **** | Moore was honestly one of our best forwards at times, combining the energy, skating, and technical ability to not only create havoc but actually do something with it.

Rielly - ***** | Consistently pushed pace and offense for us. His breakouts was a strong point for us, and it felt like he was a difference maker most nights.
Hainsey - *** | I was so impressed with Hainsey through four games. I was less enthused about the next two. And then he had a rough Game 7.
Muzzin - *** | Muzzin did a lot right in difficult minutes, but I can't really give a higher grade to someone who lost his matchup by that much.
Zaitsev - *** | Had an overall strong series. Second fiddle to Muzzin, same issue. They get joint grades here.
Gardiner - * | Was a non-factor through six, due to injuries and few minutes. And then he was one of two players to give away the game in the first. Can't rate him differently.
Dermott - ** | Rough Game 7 for sure, but I liked him through the rest.

Andersen - ** | I was contemplating a higher grade, but the cheap first goal brought it down. Statistically, he underperformed again.

Babcock - * | Bad lines, overly reliant on the wrong players, no adjustments to issues that were evident even early on. Not a lot to like from Babs. We outplayed them, they outcoached us.

A change might be needed, and Babcock is the obvious choice to go. If you compare lines, we held our ground with the first. Second line was good for both. Our third line was better. Don't know about fourth, but they certainly looked better. We were the better team in almost all areas, except special teams. And there were no adjustments, and we ended up with the worst PK performance in history. Blame the players for playing bad, but nobody else can be blamed for a lack of adjustments than the coach. Nobody else can be blamed for having one of our worst offensive forwards get more and more ice time when we are down, while actually talented players take a seat. The second line lacked a playmaker, but instead of playing one there they used Kapanen, who had no chemistry with Matthews. Kaps always work down the lineup, because he use his speed to create his own chances, he doesn't rely on teammates. In fact, he's pretty bad at using them. Yet he was glued to Matthews.

We were the better team in five out of seven games. How the **** did we lose this?

How do you give -4 Marner 3 stars? He lost his matchup, made bad mistakes on the PK and PP. Can't reward that kind of failure with 3 stars.

 

[Mugzy97]

Yup, Marner's 10 to Auston's 11.634 seems about right. Maybe 9.5 if we're lucky.

I hope we get Marner for 8 years.

 

[Lightsol]

I think Marner should get about 10.

Seems fair to me. He was awesome all year. Had an okayish playoffs, won us a game single handedly. Didn't do much towards end of series but played some decent D. We expect him to keep improving.

Personally, I think the Leafs should point to Nikita Kucherov, note that he's making $9.5 million for an Art Ross 120+ point season, note that Marner wasn't quite at that level, and say somewhere between $9 and $9.5. The only comparison that the Marner camp could possibly pull out higher than that is Patrick Kane, and uh... When Kane got $12 million, not only was he a UFA and thus worth slightly more, he also had multiple trophy wins including a Conn Smythe. As good as Marner's been, he hasn't won anything like that.

And most other crazy comparisons are going to use centers. Centers always get paid more; it's why Nylander's attempt to use Draisaitl as a comparable was ridiculous.

 

[Tak7]

I don't expect a single difficult question to be asked by anyone other than Steve Simmonds tomorrow.

Let's be real - Toronto media have become soft when it comes to asking loaded questions; they disappeared as soon as Dion and Phil left.

 

[Tak7]

Personally, I think the Leafs should point to Nikita Kucherov, note that he's making $9.5 million for an Art Ross 120+ point season, note that Marner wasn't quite at that level, and say somewhere between $9 and $9.5. The only comparison that the Marner camp could possibly pull out higher than that is Patrick Kane, and uh... When Kane got $12 million, not only was he a UFA and thus worth slightly more, he also had multiple trophy wins including a Conn Smythe. As good as Marner's been, he hasn't won anything like that.

And most other crazy comparisons are going to use centers. Centers always get paid more; it's why Nylander's attempt to use Draisaitl as a comparable was ridiculous.

Not to turn this into a Marner-contract thread, but if you convert Kucherov's deal as a % against the cap when he signed it, wouldn't that put Marner at around $12 million AAV?

Marner's camp would probably cream themselves if the Leafs used Kucherov as a comparable

 

[Martin Skoula]

How do you give -4 Marner 3 stars? He lost his matchup, made bad mistakes on the PK and PP. Can't reward that kind of failure with 3 stars.

Yeah but Marner's from Toronto and he blocked 2 shots once. Never mind the fact that those were the only 2 shots he blocked, and notable "soft players" like Nylander and Matthews blocked more than Marner over the series. They're not from Toronto.

 

[HolyCrap]

At least Gardiner is gone for sure.

Good point. One of the only positives to look forward too. I hope Kadri, Nylander, Brown and Marleau disappear too.

 

[Chungo2]

This team is so close to being legend...wait for it...dary.

Most of these players haven't even come close to peaking yet. Addition by subtraction (Gardiner, etc.) And bringing up Sandin and Liljegren. Bring in some players that ain't afraid of giving/receiving hits.

I obviously wanted to win this round, but our team needs to get some battle scars to dominate.

Just remember Leaf Nation, were trending up!

 

[Marshy]

Debating real hard about just ending it.

Has anyone heard from Keato today?

 

[fahad203]

So, end of playoffs player ratings. I'll keep it short. Will likely take a hiatus from the boards over the summer after this. Grades are more about satisfaction with their performance than purely how good they were. Here goes:

Matthews - ***** | Looked like a franchise player this series. Very happy with his performance.
Johnsson - **** | Quietly was effective both even strength and on the PP. He performed really well for us.
Kapanen - ** | Kapanen showcased all the flaws in his game this series. Used speed to create room, negated it with bad shots. His tunnel vision robbed Matthews of some of his best chances.
Tavares - *** | All in all, we needed more from our new star center. Good job against the Bergeron line, but at the end they were on the losing side at ES and didn't get it done on the PP.
Hyman - ** | Wasn't quite the normal Hyman. Good pest, but couldn't bring his board game to full life.
Marner - *** | Gonna take heat here, but I think Marner reached 12 GA in this series. Part of an awful PK, his line had a bad differential, and in the end we needed more from our superstar.
Nylander - *** | Gonna take heat here, but I think Nylander's series was the definition of decent. Did what you could expect given his usage, no more and no less.
Marleau - * | Could be the worst PP player I've seen in years. Komarov was better. For a few games, every play he made on the PP killed the attack. He gave us nothing.
Brown - ** | Brown looks like Gauthier with the puck. Actually, he looks worse. PK work solidifies his rating.
Gauthier - ** | He was 6'5" somewhere.
Ennis - **** | Ennis came in and energized our fourth line. I really liked him.
Moore - **** | Moore was honestly one of our best forwards at times, combining the energy, skating, and technical ability to not only create havoc but actually do something with it.

Rielly - ***** | Consistently pushed pace and offense for us. His breakouts was a strong point for us, and it felt like he was a difference maker most nights.
Hainsey - *** | I was so impressed with Hainsey through four games. I was less enthused about the next two. And then he had a rough Game 7.
Muzzin - *** | Muzzin did a lot right in difficult minutes, but I can't really give a higher grade to someone who lost his matchup by that much.
Zaitsev - *** | Had an overall strong series. Second fiddle to Muzzin, same issue. They get joint grades here.
Gardiner - * | Was a non-factor through six, due to injuries and few minutes. And then he was one of two players to give away the game in the first. Can't rate him differently.
Dermott - ** | Rough Game 7 for sure, but I liked him through the rest.

Andersen - ** | I was contemplating a higher grade, but the cheap first goal brought it down. Statistically, he underperformed again.

Babcock - * | Bad lines, overly reliant on the wrong players, no adjustments to issues that were evident even early on. Not a lot to like from Babs. We outplayed them, they outcoached us.

A change might be needed, and Babcock is the obvious choice to go. If you compare lines, we held our ground with the first. Second line was good for both. Our third line was better. Don't know about fourth, but they certainly looked better. We were the better team in almost all areas, except special teams. And there were no adjustments, and we ended up with the worst PK performance in history. Blame the players for playing bad, but nobody else can be blamed for a lack of adjustments than the coach. Nobody else can be blamed for having one of our worst offensive forwards get more and more ice time when we are down, while actually talented players take a seat. The second line lacked a playmaker, but instead of playing one there they used Kapanen, who had no chemistry with Matthews. Kaps always work down the lineup, because he use his speed to create his own chances, he doesn't rely on teammates. In fact, he's pretty bad at using them. Yet he was glued to Matthews.

We were the better team in five out of seven games. How the **** did we lose this?

Hyman - ** | Wasn't quite the normal Hyman. Good pest, but couldn't bring his board game to full life.

He was clearly injured. So I don't know why you would keep him up with Marner and Tavares arguablly your best forwards and slow them down. It made no sense to me. That line was super slow. They could have used Nylander or Kapanen
Marner is a magician, if Kapanen ever rocketed down the boards, Marner would have found a way to get him the puck
Hyman was too predictable and too slow. He tries but his feet won't catch up to his heart

Speaking of Kapanen, there was this one play in 3rd where there was 3 on 2. Kappy carrying the puck almost looked baffled on what to do with the puck. He to me now looks like he works really hard doing the wrong things. Very Yakupovish sometimes

To this date, Matthews linemates have been at least 1 rookies or 2nd year players. All under 6 feet in size. Dude needs someone who can hold the puck for him, even for a slight second along the boards. Or maybe create a pick, or cycle out of play or in.

There are so many question marks with this coach that It really really bothers me talking about it. I have been watching hockey for 27 years, Clearly I learned nothing. Clearly I have no knowledge of hockey

 

[Coatsy79]

I just think our team is bizarre, our utilisation of players is odd, most teams play to the strengths of their players, our team seems to try and work against that

I think we were poorly coached this year theres no excuse for only giving our superstar players 17/18 minutes of ice time when the playoffs are on the line and playing Brown and marleau as much as they were was a crazy decision, it was clear to everyone they weren't getting it done, why JT and Matthews weren't playing 24 mins a piece especially when Kadri was suspended (again) is beyond me

And WTF is up with our Power play, it should be amongst the best in the league, again, a coaching fail imho

I was so happy when we got Babs, thought we were going places but I think it's clear he's not the right coach for this team, as much as it pains me to say it, I think it's time to move on

 

[Einzakin]

Personally, I think the Leafs should point to Nikita Kucherov, note that he's making $9.5 million for an Art Ross 120+ point season, note that Marner wasn't quite at that level, and say somewhere between $9 and $9.5. The only comparison that the Marner camp could possibly pull out higher than that is Patrick Kane, and uh... When Kane got $12 million, not only was he a UFA and thus worth slightly more, he also had multiple trophy wins including a Conn Smythe. As good as Marner's been, he hasn't won anything like that.

And most other crazy comparisons are going to use centers. Centers always get paid more; it's why Nylander's attempt to use Draisaitl as a comparable was ridiculous.

I agree but inflation will bring that 9 to about 10. For example. 5 million dollars 10 years ago is worth much more today because the cap space goes up.

10 million last year is worth 10-something this year.

 

[Einzakin]

Also have this weird feeling like Babcock doesn't bring the best out of his stars.

He can't let anyone shine. It's why he loves guys like Marleau and Hyman. They skate hard (I guess?). Not that Hyman is bad.

It's almost like a jealousy. Babcock is sort of a dim individual with a good work ethic. If anyone shines more than him or is more intelligent he has to bring them down a level.

It's why he'll never play Marner Nylander Matthews together. He just won't get out of his way. f*** Babcock. Legit f*** Babcock.

 

[Al14]

Will miss playoffs next year!

This is my fear too. This season our Leafs finished with less points than last season. Same 1st round exits.

Next season, given the cap crunch, we may not be able to add much help, and then, might just regress more to end up out of the playoffs.

 

[GardinerTheForward]

So is the post season presser officially announced?

 

[IPS]

Also have this weird feeling like Babcock doesn't bring the best out of his stars.

He can't let anyone shine. It's why he loves guys like Marleau and Hyman. They skate hard (I guess?). Not that Hyman is bad.

It's almost like a jealousy. Babcock is sort of a dim individual with a good work ethic. If anyone shines more than him or is more intelligent he has to bring them down a level.

It's why he'll never play Marner Nylander Matthews together. He just won't get out of his way. **** Babcock. Legit **** Babcock.

I've wondered this ever since he implemented that stupid PP strategy of intentionally limiting his star player's PP time. A true egomaniac of the highest degree.