Prospect Info: Eeli Tolvanen

[Predsanddead24]

2 way players make their minor league salary when on the taxi squad...is there a salary difference on an ELC?

ELC's are two way contracts so he does make less on the taxi squad. There also is no cap hit for players on the taxi squad. There was some discussion earlier on another thread about how players get paid and how cap is calculated. The minutiae of that doesn't really interest me all that much though so someone else with more knowledge can hopefully chime in.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Yeah, he just gets his AHL salary on those days off when he's on the Taxi Squad. That's what most teams are doing to save money. Well, other teams are also doing it for Cap Space - we save that too, but it's not as big a deal to us since we aren't close to the Cap like a lot of teams are.

So they'll just keep shuffling him back every time there's a day between games, because they can, even if he settles in as a regular on the team. Nothing to be alarmed about. They'll do it with Olivier too, similarly. Just watch the CapFriendly transactions list, by 5pm every day teams have to declare their shuffles, and normally you'll see him back off the Taxi Squad on game days at 5pm if he's going to play.

The one good thing for guys who are on the Taxi Squad as opposed to the AHL is that their AHL salaries are pro-rated down to something like 40% when they are in the AHL. Whereas at least on the Taxi Squad they get something closer to their full AHL pay rate. Or at least that's what I remember reading in the days before the season kicked off, haven't followed any updates since if there have been any. But for guys making $70k, it's nice to get paycheques based on that salary rate instead of the $30k they'd be looking at in Chicago.

 

[OldFan]

Of all the talk of having a taxi squad, it never occurred to me that the GMs would bounce players around to minimize their salary. Within the rules but not an especially good relationship builder.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Of all the talk of having a taxi squad, it never occurred to me that the GMs would bounce players around to minimize their salary. Within the rules but not an especially good relationship builder.

I think it just depends on the player. Like us, we can do it with Olivier and Tolvanen, because there wasn't really any firm expectation that they'd get ANY days on their NHL pay rate at all. But you don't see us doing it with Fabbro, for example, who if I'm not mistaken we could have. So we save $$$ where we can, but at least since we aren't absolutely crushed on the Cap, we don't get too carried away with it?

 

[Byrddog]

Tolvanen and Trenin are averaging 12.5 and 11.5 minutes per game respectively. Each have 1 goal and 0 assts. Trenin now has 32 games in the league with 7 points, Tolvanen now has 12 games in the league with 3 points. These guys are clearly not the offensive dynamo's many expected each are less than .5 ppg in the AHL as well. While Trenin did play at ppg for 32 games last year there is no indication they are going to be more than 3rd liners. We need something to be excited about for the future. Tomasino and Foresberg can not carry a team giving Tomasino the benefit of the doubt of being a top 6 guy. Where are the rest going to come from? While Forsberg is pacing for a good year Josi is pacing at a 46 point clip as well as Arvy. The remainder of the roster is pacing at 35 points or less with 17 players pacing at 23 points or less. This does not provide a good picture for trading players for value. The pure rentals we have to offer at the trade deadline Granlund, Haula, Rinne are the only value that could bring a 2nd Richardson maybe a 4th all of this in a weak draft. Yet people on the main board question why some fans would want to see what Ellis and Ekholm could bring back.

Some here still think this team has potential I just can't wrap my head around that the only positive metric the team has is winning face offs. And all of this did not happen overnight. It is painful watching this team now. Even the Wings are competitive against the Preds now. There is plenty of blame to go around but the play by play guys are also partly responsible blowing smoke every game. Pumping up the play of failing players supporting failing coaches and down right worshiping a GM who is clearly beyond his shelf life.

 

[sakux]

Tolvanen performing much better in the NHL. AHL ain't for everyone

 

[Flgatorguy87]

 

[Flgatorguy87]

 

[BigFatCat999]

Forsberg-Duchene-Tolvanen....hmmmm....

 

[Flgatorguy87]

Forsberg-Duchene-Tolvanen....hmmmm....

That'll be the end of the year line after Granlund is traded. Then Arvy, RyJo, Pitlick

 

[adsfan]

Tolvanen and Trenin are averaging 12.5 and 11.5 minutes per game respectively. Each have 1 goal and 0 assts. Trenin now has 32 games in the league with 7 points, Tolvanen now has 12 games in the league with 3 points. These guys are clearly not the offensive dynamo's many expected each are less than .5 ppg in the AHL as well. While Trenin did play at ppg for 32 games last year there is no indication they are going to be more than 3rd liners. We need something to be excited about for the future. Tomasino and Foresberg can not carry a team giving Tomasino the benefit of the doubt of being a top 6 guy. Where are the rest going to come from? While Forsberg is pacing for a good year Josi is pacing at a 46 point clip as well as Arvy. The remainder of the roster is pacing at 35 points or less with 17 players pacing at 23 points or less. This does not provide a good picture for trading players for value. The pure rentals we have to offer at the trade deadline Granlund, Haula, Rinne are the only value that could bring a 2nd Richardson maybe a 4th all of this in a weak draft. Yet people on the main board question why some fans would want to see what Ellis and Ekholm could bring back.

Some here still think this team has potential I just can't wrap my head around that the only positive metric the team has is winning face offs. And all of this did not happen overnight. It is painful watching this team now. Even the Wings are competitive against the Preds now. There is plenty of blame to go around but the play by play guys are also partly responsible blowing smoke every game. Pumping up the play of failing players supporting failing coaches and down right worshiping a GM who is clearly beyond his shelf life.

Tolvanen essentially replaces Craig Smith, but he is 9 years younger. He has a lot of upside.
He would have 20 goals in an 82 game season based on 3 G in 12 games. He is doing better than Cousins, Haula and Arvy in the goal department. They have 2 G apiece in 20 or 21 games.
Tolvanen has 19 NHL games and 6 points.

Trenin is playing on the 4th line this season and he may tie last season's stats. The PPG last season was in Milwaukee. Trenin had 2 G and 6 points in 21 NHL games last season. He should be able to get to 0.5 PPG in the NHL, but he will have to play on the third line. He has 34 NHL games and 8 points, so he is getting close to 0.25 PPG.

Trenin's development was held back 1 or 2 years by Dean Evason coaching with his head up his butt. Look at Trenin's stats in seasons 3 and 4 in Milwaukee when Evason was gone. He had 14 and 20 goals after having 1 and 5 goals under Evason.

As bad as things are, you are making them sound even worse, Byrddog.

 

[Byrddog]

Tolvanen essentially replaces Craig Smith, but he is 9 years younger. He has a lot of upside.
He would have 20 goals in an 82 game season based on 3 G in 12 games. He is doing better than Cousins, Haula and Arvy in the goal department. They have 2 G apiece in 20 or 21 games.
Tolvanen has 19 NHL games and 6 points.

Trenin is playing on the 4th line this season and he may tie last season's stats. The PPG last season was in Milwaukee. Trenin had 2 G and 6 points in 21 NHL games last season. He should be able to get to 0.5 PPG in the NHL, but he will have to play on the third line. He has 34 NHL games and 8 points, so he is getting close to 0.25 PPG.

Trenin's development was held back 1 or 2 years by Dean Evason coaching with his head up his butt. Look at Trenin's stats in seasons 3 and 4 in Milwaukee when Evason was gone. He had 14 and 20 goals after having 1 and 5 goals under Evason.

As bad as things are, you are making them sound even worse, Byrddog.

It is my intention to realistically look at things. Because a player can excel in the AHL does not mean it will transfer. In fact the opposite is true, most players in the AHL do not make it to the NHL for more than 200 games. While 83% of AHL players get a look at the NHL the actual number of drafted oplayers that reach 200 games is far lower.
Probability of Playing 200 NHL Games by S election | Download Scientific Diagram (researchgate.net)

Of all forwards drafted forward 25% will play 200, defensemen 21% and goalies 19%. So the reality is that combined a drafted player has a little more than 2 in 10 chance to play long term in the league. When one drills down to draft position 43% of all selected in the 1st round will play 200 games. Only 25% of those picked in round two will make the target and of those only 35% of those forwards.

Tolvanen was selected barely in the 1st rd at pick 30. He performed in 121 AHL games and had 71 points or .58 ppg in the AHL thats a 47 point 82 game ahl season. His 6 points in 19 games is .31 ppg thus far in the NHL a small sample of games but theres no indication so far he will come close to the .58 ppg he put up in the AHL.

Trenin a 2nd rounder 55th overall is even less impressive. 155 games in the AHL 87 points .56 ppg in the AHL in the NHL 34 games 8 points for .23ppg.

Now this is not to say they will not have a career in the league, and make it to 200 games but early indications are at best they will be Taylor Beck or Austin Watson level and remember Watson was a 1st rounder picked at 18 and over .50 ppg in the AHL. Beck who was better than .50 ppg in the AHL and both were depth players Watson has played more than 200 Beck never made it.

As much as all would like to see both of these guys do well it is not likely either will play above bottom 6. The deciding factor is going to be can they be two way player to make the 3rd line or will they dwindle on the 4th line before exiting the league. My personal feeling is that Tolvanen has a better chance from the eye test but that remains to be seen long term. When you combine the teams lack of drafting forwards and where these two were selected it is easy to be skeptical. But on HF most of the time results do not mean much, its mainly all emotion here. This team need high end prospects these two do not fall in there just a couple more to lump into the bottom 6 players with a roster full of them.

 

[Scoresberg]

What I've been the most pleased about in his game is that he's found a way to be useful even when not scoring all the time. He's laying the body occasionally, and has set up his teammates for a quite a few scoring chances. He's had chances himself as well but hasn't been able to bury on those except on the PP.

I'm liking what I'm seeing so far. Got to admit, I didn't believe in him after seeing him with Jokerit earlier this season but he's looked solid so far.

 

[herzausstein]

He's got a good set of hands. Noticed a few take aways and he battled for pucks. I think his confidence is only going to grow.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

It is my intention to realistically look at things. Because a player can excel in the AHL does not mean it will transfer. In fact the opposite is true, most players in the AHL do not make it to the NHL for more than 200 games. While 83% of AHL players get a look at the NHL the actual number of drafted oplayers that reach 200 games is far lower.
Probability of Playing 200 NHL Games by S election | Download Scientific Diagram (researchgate.net)

Of all forwards drafted forward 25% will play 200, defensemen 21% and goalies 19%. So the reality is that combined a drafted player has a little more than 2 in 10 chance to play long term in the league. When one drills down to draft position 43% of all selected in the 1st round will play 200 games. Only 25% of those picked in round two will make the target and of those only 35% of those forwards.

Tolvanen was selected barely in the 1st rd at pick 30. He performed in 121 AHL games and had 71 points or .58 ppg in the AHL thats a 47 point 82 game ahl season. His 6 points in 19 games is .31 ppg thus far in the NHL a small sample of games but theres no indication so far he will come close to the .58 ppg he put up in the AHL.

Trenin a 2nd rounder 55th overall is even less impressive. 155 games in the AHL 87 points .56 ppg in the AHL in the NHL 34 games 8 points for .23ppg.

Now this is not to say they will not have a career in the league, and make it to 200 games but early indications are at best they will be Taylor Beck or Austin Watson level and remember Watson was a 1st rounder picked at 18 and over .50 ppg in the AHL. Beck who was better than .50 ppg in the AHL and both were depth players Watson has played more than 200 Beck never made it.

As much as all would like to see both of these guys do well it is not likely either will play above bottom 6. The deciding factor is going to be can they be two way player to make the 3rd line or will they dwindle on the 4th line before exiting the league. My personal feeling is that Tolvanen has a better chance from the eye test but that remains to be seen long term. When you combine the teams lack of drafting forwards and where these two were selected it is easy to be skeptical. But on HF most of the time results do not mean much, its mainly all emotion here. This team need high end prospects these two do not fall in there just a couple more to lump into the bottom 6 players with a roster full of them.

Have you watched him play in the last 7 games?

 

[Byrddog]

Have you watched him play in the last 7 games?

Yes he has bright moments for sure but that is no guarantee of future performance. I invite you to visit his game logs. He has 1 goal against the Bolts the rest of his points are against the other two bottom feeders in the division. Now if this were reversed it could be more predictive. Lets revisit it after these next 11 games if he can manage 4 or 5 points then we can get more optimistic about him. But beating up on the Wings and Jackets this year is not much of a test. Just as Sam Gange having a hatty against us, do that make him a top 6er again????? Not so much.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

Yes he has bright moments for sure but that is no guarantee of future performance. I invite you to visit his game logs. He has 1 goal against the Bolts the rest of his points are against the other two bottom feeders in the division. Now if this were reversed it could be more predictive. Lets revisit it after these next 11 games if he can manage 4 or 5 points then we can get more optimistic about him. But beating up on the Wings and Jackets this year is not much of a test. Just as Sam Gange having a hatty against us, do that make him a top 6er again????? Not so much.

I am not watching his points or anything aside from his play. He has looked good. He has been positionally sound, he is playing a defensive game, and our PP has made significant improvements. I like what he has shown, and hope that he continues his play/development. Not everything has to be decided, prorated, and prognosticated. It can just be watching a 21 year old kid play in his first real role in the NHL. It's nice to have something to watch in a year like this.

Eating dinner with you must be "this steak is sooo good" to which you reply "yeah, but I bet tomorrow's will suck"

 

[jumb0]

I think he has looked very good, especially considering how some of you on this site talk about him.

 

[triggrman]

I think he has looked very good, especially considering how some of you on this site talk about him.

I'll admit, I wasn't sold on him. Watching him play though, he's a decent player away from the puck, and he has an elite shot.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Seems like Fil may be giving him some advice on those little stick lifts and steals that he is so good at too. I really hope we keep those two together and let Forsberg be his mentor this season.

 

[desmondtootoo]

Out of Trenin Tolvanen Tomasino Pitlick Allard Carrier Olivier, etc, one will maybe become a decent player on the Preds.
See : Bonino Bitetto Grimaldi Sissons Salomaki Carr, etc.
They all seem to get adored way too much, way too long.
We need some good drafts, trades, and signings. Not more fringe bubble guys that get fantasized about endlessly.

 

[LCPreds]

I invite you to visit his game logs. He has 1 goal against the Bolts the rest of his points are against the other two bottom feeders in the division.

You could basically take this quote and apply it to pretty much any Preds forward not named Forsberg and I probably wouldn’t double check you.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I think he has looked very good, especially considering how some of you on this site talk about him.

It is very likely I am not, uh, seeing all the posts in this thread. But I think there are two valid points of view I'm seeing that are being expressed here: 1) Tolvanen was NOT looking great based on his start in the KHL and our two broadcast scrimmage games in training camp. He was NOT doing all the things that he is right now. 2) Tolvanen right now IS doing more, backchecking, trying to throw hits (albeit with no real effectiveness), showing some vision and playmaking ability that was never really expected.

It adds up to him making an impressive turnaround (relative to our viewings anyway), and that's obviously great for us.

One wonders... maybe all the efforts put into getting him to play more of a 2-way style in Milwaukee are actually paying off? If he sacrificed some flashy numbers to round out his game more there, let that slip to some extent in the KHL, but brought it back here after some Taxi Squad refresher time, then... well, to me, all the more reason to FIRE HYNES and get Taylor in there.

 

[PredsV82]

Out of Trenin Tolvanen Tomasino Pitlick Allard Carrier Olivier, etc, one will maybe become a decent player on the Preds.
See : Bonino Bitetto Grimaldi Sissons Salomaki Carr, etc.
They all seem to get adored way too much, way too long.
We need some good drafts, trades, and signings. Not more fringe bubble guys that get fantasized about endlessly.

You took six of our actual draft picks and compared them to a bunch of players we never drafted?? None of the first bunch has even had a chance to prove themselves at the NHL level except Tolvanen and hes starting to look like hes gonna make it. You're just talking out your bunghole with this post. While you may be right that most of that first bunch wont make it, comparing them to the second bunch is a non sequitur

 

[triggrman]

Tomasino might be our best prospect since Radulov.