Blue Jays Discussion: Edwin, Donaldson, Saunders, Sanchez, Estrada to the ASG

[TF97]

he'd likely be more valuable than smoak there.

but no, i'd rather not have either of them starting at 1b.

Zeke, you know your stuff but come on, you can't seriously expect that Barney would be more valuable at 1B than Smoak is. Barney is having a career year offensively but is still a slightly below average hitter and has nearly no pop. Plus, lets not leave out the part where Barney has never played 1B at the major league level (and likely never did in the minors, either). At least with Smoak, you are getting a poor mans Adam Dunn with a better glove.

 

[Scrub*]

this year:

smoak 98wrc+
barney 97

last 2yrs

smoak 103
barney 100

last 3yrs

smoak 95
barney 89

Right. And you wanted Barney at 1b instead of Smoak when Smoaks stats are marginally better.

 

[zeke]

yes, barney would likely be more valuable at 1b than smoak.

smoak is a replacement level player. he contributes at a level expected from the average AAA callup.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

could i get some information from those that live in the t.of area... there was a blog I read during the San Fran series

pretty much the jist of the article was a new Jays stadium in front of one of the lakes kinda mirroring the San Fran stadium ... my question to you ...... isn't mist of that property in use owned or private?

 

[as Pure as Evil]

think it was a more of a if it ever happens scenario

 

[Scrub*]

yes, barney would likely be more valuable at 1b than smoak.

smoak is a replacement level player. he contributes at a level expected from the average AAA callup.

You're basing this years barney on everything that you're deciding on here. What about all the years Barney was with the Dodgers and Cubs also as a replacement level player.

We're just not built around a slugging first baseman right now, am fine with that as long as 3/4 of JD/JB/EE/Saunders are here a bit longer.

 

[Apotheosis]

If we build around a slugging 1B, that would probably be Tellez. So much composure at the plate for a kid his age.

 

[Kurtz]

Zeke, you know your stuff but come on, you can't seriously expect that Barney would be more valuable at 1B than Smoak is. Barney is having a career year offensively but is still a slightly below average hitter and has nearly no pop. Plus, lets not leave out the part where Barney has never played 1B at the major league level (and likely never did in the minors, either). At least with Smoak, you are getting a poor mans Adam Dunn with a better glove.

His point is that Smoak is so mediocre that putting a light-hitting utility guy in his place at 1B would have basically the same impact.


Frankly, I feel much more confident when Barney bats compared to Smoak.

 

[TF97]

His point is that Smoak is so mediocre that putting a light-hitting utility guy in his place at 1B would have basically the same impact.


Frankly, I feel much more confident when Barney bats compared to Smoak.

I get his point. But the point is ridiculous. Also, no matter how confident you are in Barney while he is batting, Smoak is still a better hitter than him, and there are years of data to prove this.

 

[Mad Brills*]

could i get some information from those that live in the t.of area... there was a blog I read during the San Fran series

pretty much the jist of the article was a new Jays stadium in front of one of the lakes kinda mirroring the San Fran stadium ... my question to you ...... isn't mist of that property in use owned or private?

There's 2 realistic options for a new stadium in Toronto:

1. Tear down the dome, play elsewhere for 2 years, and rebuild on that prime property, because it's a great location for traffic flows of transit etc...., or do massive renovations, but that isn't happening.

2. Portlands, which for me would be the only place other than the current location that makes sense. Tons of new area there, by the water, and transit accesable.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

There's 2 realistic options for a new stadium in Toronto:

1. Tear down the dome, play elsewhere for 2 years, and rebuild on that prime property, because it's a great location for traffic flows of transit etc...., or do massive renovations, but that isn't happening.

2. Portlands, which for me would be the only place other than the current location that makes sense. Tons of new area there, by the water, and transit accesable.

thanks for the input man

 

[zeke]

I get his point. But the point is ridiculous. Also, no matter how confident you are in Barney while he is batting, Smoak is still a better hitter than him, and there are years of data to prove this.

years of data prove that smoak is a subpar bat with no defensive or baserunning value. a replacement player.


over the last 2-3yrs, barney has been just as good with the bat, and far better in everything else. even at 1B he would likely earn enough defensive value to be a clear upgrade on smoak.

 

[inthe6ix]

great so we get another 2 years of seeing smokey whiff on more breaking balls

 

[TF97]

years of data prove that smoak is a subpar bat with no defensive or baserunning value. a replacement player.


over the last 2-3yrs, barney has been just as good with the bat, and far better in everything else. even at 1B he would likely earn enough defensive value to be a clear upgrade on smoak.

From 2013-2016 here are the splits each player produced.

Barney: .234/.290/.336/6.4 BB%/12.3 K%/71 wRC+/2.7 WAR
Smoak: .227/.314/.409/10.8 BB%/25.5 K%/102 wRC+/1.0 WAR

There is no doubt that Barney has been the more valuable player over that period. But, Smoak also has the positional adjustment dragging down his defensive ratings. I do believe that Barney could at least be competent at 1B. But to expect him to be more valuable than Smoak at 1B is just nonsense IMO.

 

[trellaine201]

Terrible Smoak signing IMO. Unless they are trading him? This signing doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[frost king]

Terrible Smoak signing IMO. Unless they are trading him? This signing doesn't make a lot of sense.

The only reason for the signing, is that the Blue Jays have surrendered the idea of signing Bautista and or Encarnacion. Why else would they be in the market for an outfielder? If Pompey, is suppose to be as advertised, why would you try to trade for an OF that you have control over? That signals to me, that Saunders is gone also.

 

[zeke]

From 2013-2016 here are the splits each player produced.

Barney: .234/.290/.336/6.4 BB%/12.3 K%/71 wRC+/2.7 WAR
Smoak: .227/.314/.409/10.8 BB%/25.5 K%/102 wRC+/1.0 WAR

There is no doubt that Barney has been the more valuable player over that period. But, Smoak also has the positional adjustment dragging down his defensive ratings. I do believe that Barney could at least be competent at 1B. But to expect him to be more valuable than Smoak at 1B is just nonsense IMO.

ah, ye olde 4 year split.

 

[zeke]

And today again they're sitting travis to get barney some deserved playing time. But really, smoak should be the one sitting.

 

[trellaine201]

The only reason for the signing, is that the Blue Jays have surrendered the idea of signing Bautista and or Encarnacion. Why else would they be in the market for an outfielder? If Pompey, is suppose to be as advertised, why would you try to trade for an OF that you have control over? That signals to me, that Saunders is gone also.

Ya I was quick to react. After thinking about we need players next year. We will much worse than the past two years. We need the bodies.

 

[trellaine201]

Btw Smoak has been awful.

Last 20 games 7/56

 

[Scrub*]

Barney for backup catcher ? Ryan Goins?

 

[hockeywiz542]

"we feel like he has the potential to play every day, but really it just comes down to alternatives," said blue jays general manager ross atkins on a conference call. "edwin could be a dh and justin could be playing regularly at first base, as he was earlier this year.

"there's a lot of different alternatives there. They're on the same team now and could be on the same team moving forward."

smoak's contract will pay the 29-year-old us$4.125 million per season in 2017 and 2018 with a $6 million option in 2019 that has a $250,000 buyout. Smoak is batting .234 with a nine home runs and 23 runs batted in this season with a .333 on-base percentage and a .402 slugging percentage.

atkins, however, feels that smoak has seen improvement every year and can become a starting infielder or designated hitter, if necessary.

"seeing that potential of a guy who could become an everyday player and impact the team with a larger role, it felt like it made sense to see if he was interested in an extension," said atkins, adding that negotiations were relatively quick, with the two sides sorting out the details over the all-star break. "it has no impact on our ability to sign edwin encarnacion, or anyone else for that matter.

"they're on the same team today and certainly could be on the same team next year."

signing smoak to an extension was a priority for atkins as the blue jays have, in addition to encarnacion, eight players with expiring contracts. Slugger jose bautista, canadian all-star left-fielder michael saunders, veteran knuckleballer r.a. Dickey, as well as relievers franklin morales, gavin floyd, brett cecil, jesse chavez and drew storen could all become free agents or head to arbitration in 2017.

"we have to get work done," atkins said. "we have a busy off-season ahead of us. ... We saw this as an opportunity and a short window to see if there was something there with justin and it turned out we were both really efficient."

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Bjorn Le]

MLB tonight says Yankees in 2019 will have Harper, Machado and yes even Donaldson...I thought it was tongue in cheek but it's literally not...

 

[Dough72]

MLB tonight says Yankees in 2019 will have Harper, Machado and yes even Donaldson...I thought it was tongue in cheek but it's literally not...

omg 2019 is also the year Smoak becomes free agent