News Article: Edmonton Oilers: Wait and See at 2C

[Up the Irons]

Not sure which side of this u fall on. Your post is unclear.

Are you saying it should be easy to get a second line center? That even tho all teams run with at least a few unproven roster spots Edmonton shouldnt have to?

That fans should expect a roster full of proven vets and never need to develop from within?

That our current prospects are junk and don't deserve a shot?

Hope not

He's saying we have been giving the organization the benefit of the doubt and allowing for a excuses for too long. They have been writing off entire seasons because they say it isn't worth trading away prospects that fit into their plan for the future. Except that the future isn't guaranteed, not to mention the culture of losing as not only seeped in, but taken over.

They've created a reputation of being a joke. Good luck getting quality UFAs to come here without a gross overpayment.

There should be more urgency. they need to treat this year as just as important as 2017-18. Future success is not a guarantee.

What will they do if they go 5-10-3 in the first month? my guess is they fold up tent and concentrate on scouting Juniors, like they have for half a decade.

 

[Aerchon]

He's saying we have been giving the organization the benefit of the doubt and allowing for a excuses for too long. They have been writing off entire seasons because they say it isn't worth trading away prospects that fit into their plan for the future. Except that the future isn't guaranteed, not to mention the culture of losing as not only seeped in, but taken over.

They've created a reputation of being a joke. Good luck getting quality UFAs to come here without a gross overpayment.

There should be more urgency. they need to treat this year as just as important as 2017-18. Future success is not a guarantee.

What will they do if they go 5-10-3 in the first month? my guess is they fold up tent and concentrate on scouting Juniors, like they have for half a decade.

I agree the Oilers are a joke but I think the days of the fans giving the organization an easy time are past.

I think mac t is doing a decent job getting solid players. But we can't expect the moon, the sun ,and the stars.

I think some people are going a bit far now with their expectations.

 

[oilinblood]

I agree the Oilers are a joke but I think the days of the fans giving the organization an easy time are past.

I think mac t is doing a decent job getting solid players. But we can't expect the moon, the sun ,and the stars.

I think some people are going a bit far now with their expectations.

I agree with the above but also i would happily move our first round pick in this years draft if there was a good deal that helped the team now out there.
I would still hope to acquire someones first rounder so we arent without one.

You have to figure ours, right now, is extremely valuable.

It would also be a loud message to fans and players that the organization is going all in to improve this team and believing in their core(by using an asset outside the core to obtain immediate valued assets)

 

[Replacement*]

I agree the Oilers are a joke but I think the days of the fans giving the organization an easy time are past.

I think mac t is doing a decent job getting solid players. But we can't expect the moon, the sun ,and the stars.

I think some people are going a bit far now with their expectations.

Getting out of last place after years of residing there is having high expectations?

The Oilers are still the joke of the league, nothing has changed and that status isn't altered until games are played.

All people are hoping for is a team that is even remotely competitive.

 

[oilinblood]

Getting out of last place after years of residing there is having high expectations?

The Oilers are still the joke of the league, nothing has changed and that status isn't altered until games are played.

All people are hoping for is a team that is even remotely competitive.

Close games and being in the mix will be nice.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

He's saying we have been giving the organization the benefit of the doubt and allowing for a excuses for too long. They have been writing off entire seasons because they say it isn't worth trading away prospects that fit into their plan for the future. Except that the future isn't guaranteed, not to mention the culture of losing as not only seeped in, but taken over.

They've created a reputation of being a joke. Good luck getting quality UFAs to come here without a gross overpayment.

There should be more urgency. they need to treat this year as just as important as 2017-18. Future success is not a guarantee.

What will they do if they go 5-10-3 in the first month? my guess is they fold up tent and concentrate on scouting Juniors, like they have for half a decade.

Thanks, I couldn't have said it better myself.

Are you saying it should be easy to get a second line center? That even tho all teams run with at least a few unproven roster spots Edmonton shouldnt have to?

I'm not sure I'm saying it's easy, but I'm saying it should be expected.
Let's look at the 8 playoff teams in the West from last season heading into this one:
1. Getzlaf - Kesler
2. Duchene - MacKinnon/O'Reilly
3. Backes - Stastny
4. Thornton - Pavelski/Couture/Marleau
5. Toews - Richards
6. Kopitar - Carter
7. Granlund - Koivu
8. Seguin - Spezza

I see about one or two centers out of the 16 that are better (next season) than RNH. Over half these teams were once sitting near the basement of the NHL not too long ago. It didn't take the 8-10 years we'll have waited if Draisaitl pans out in 3 years.

That fans should expect a roster full of proven vets and never need to develop from within?

Well that's a bit extreme. I don't see why both of those ideas need to be married together. Yes, I do expect, after 5-7 years, that our professional hockey team will have proven players in key positions. It's NOT too much to ask, after this long, to have a #1C, #2C, top pairing defenceman, and proven goalie. Right now we have 1/4 of those.
Again, let's look
1. Gibson/Andersen
2. Varlamov
3. Elliott/Allen
4. Niemi
5. Cawford
6. Quick
7. Harding/Kuemper
8. Lehtonen
Of the 8 teams, I would say Minnesota and Anaheim is about on par with us, and the Blues are weaker. However, the Blues have the best defence in hockey, so yeah. I'm not too worried about goaltending heading into the season. I have high hopes that one of Scrivens or Fasth will have a breakout year.

1. Fowler
2. E. Johnson
3. Pietrangelo
4. Burns
5. Keith
6. Doughty
7. Suter
8. Goligoski

Obviously none of our d-men are close to any of these. Most of those teams have a 2nd defenceman that are better than any one of ours as well.

That our current prospects are junk and don't deserve a shot?

I've never been against developing prospects. Thing is, we haven't really developed one in the 6 years since Sam Gagner to play a full-season besides our #1 picks. Realistically it takes about 3 seasons for a 3rd overall center to make an impact for his team if he pans out.
At what point though, have you decided you've waited long enough for our prospects to pan out? Remember when Nilsson-Cogliano-Gagner was our top line of the future? Remember when Colton Teubert was going to be a 2nd pairing d-man? Remember when PRV-Lander-Hartikainen were going to be an awesome 3rd line by last year? Or when Hamilton and Pitlick were going to be 2nd line power forwards?
We've been sold on waiting for prospects to develop for an eternity. At some point enough is enough. I've reached that point, clearly you haven't. But I'd rather not have to wait another 3 years for Draisaitl and Nurse for them to maybe reach their potential. As I said earlier, the other teams have figured it out, leave it to our highly-paid management team to. It's their job, not ours.

 

[Up the Irons]

I agree the Oilers are a joke but I think the days of the fans giving the organization an easy time are past.

yeah, that time probably has come.

I think mac t is doing a decent job getting solid players. But we can't expect the moon, the sun ,and the stars.

I think some people are going a bit far now with their expectations.

you are probably right. They wasted 3 years and now I'm impatient because i see the contracts of Ebs and Hall nearing their ended before this team ever contends (if).

I know my expections, long term, are much lower. I nolonger expect to contend for the SC. The Oilers core are no better than Colorado's, Dallas' or Florida's. The D-corp are 5 years behind the forward corp, so who knows how that's going to work out. Management seems more than willing to just wait for Nurse to emerge.

I'm jaded. I'm angry. I'm negative. I'm doubtful. I'm also an effect; the Oilers organization are the cause.

 

[Up the Irons]

I've never been against developing prospects. Thing is, we haven't really developed one in the 6 years since Sam Gagner to play a full-season besides our #1 picks. Realistically it takes about 3 seasons for a 3rd overall center to make an impact for his team if he pans out.
At what point though, have you decided you've waited long enough for our prospects to pan out? Remember when Nilsson-Cogliano-Gagner was our top line of the future? Remember when Colton Teubert was going to be a 2nd pairing d-man? Remember when PRV-Lander-Hartikainen were going to be an awesome 3rd line by last year? Or when Hamilton and Pitlick were going to be 2nd line power forwards?
We've been sold on waiting for prospects to develop for an eternity. At some point enough is enough. I've reached that point, clearly you haven't. But I'd rather not have to wait another 3 years for Draisaitl and Nurse for them to maybe reach their potential. As I said earlier, the other teams have figured it out, leave it to our highly-paid management team to. It's their job, not ours.

I'm there too. Enough is enough. I'm skeptical that all this waiting will work out. and even if it does, will it be worth a decade in the basement? they'd have to win no less than 2 SCs, and have at least a decade in the top 5 for it to be worth.

if they go like Carolina (one cup and not much more to speak of).. not worth it.

 

[Mr Positive]

Thanks, I couldn't have said it better myself.



I'm not sure I'm saying it's easy, but I'm saying it should be expected.
Let's look at the 8 playoff teams in the West from last season heading into this one:
1. Getzlaf - Kesler
2. Duchene - MacKinnon/O'Reilly
3. Backes - Stastny
4. Thornton - Pavelski/Couture/Marleau
5. Toews - Richards
6. Kopitar - Carter
7. Granlund - Koivu
8. Seguin - Spezza

I see about one or two centers out of the 16 that are better (next season) than RNH. Over half these teams were once sitting near the basement of the NHL not too long ago. It didn't take the 8-10 years we'll have waited if Draisaitl pans out in 3 years.


Well that's a bit extreme. I don't see why both of those ideas need to be married together. Yes, I do expect, after 5-7 years, that our professional hockey team will have proven players in key positions. It's NOT too much to ask, after this long, to have a #1C, #2C, top pairing defenceman, and proven goalie. Right now we have 1/4 of those.
Again, let's look
1. Gibson/Andersen
2. Varlamov
3. Elliott/Allen
4. Niemi
5. Cawford
6. Quick
7. Harding/Kuemper
8. Lehtonen
Of the 8 teams, I would say Minnesota and Anaheim is about on par with us, and the Blues are weaker. However, the Blues have the best defence in hockey, so yeah. I'm not too worried about goaltending heading into the season. I have high hopes that one of Scrivens or Fasth will have a breakout year.

1. Fowler
2. E. Johnson
3. Pietrangelo
4. Burns
5. Keith
6. Doughty
7. Suter
8. Goligoski

Obviously none of our d-men are close to any of these. Most of those teams have a 2nd defenceman that are better than any one of ours as well.

This is a grim assessment, but I don't think trading our future draft picks or our expendable wingers would help us move up these lists at all.

I know filling key positions is important, but there's a point where it goes too far. Personally I wouldn't trade Hall for a lesser talent just because they were a center or defenseman. I wouldn't trade Hall for any goalie in the league.

I know that the best teams are highly ranked on those lists, but with proper support our young core can develop into something special. As of now, we do have upgrades this offseason in terms of supporting players. With our young players a year older I'm expecting the team to improve to the point where we are a few spots out of the playoffs. I'll be cheering for the team to pull it together and actually make the playoffs too, and in sports that is definitely a possibility if we can catch a few breaks along the way and find some chemistry.

 

[Aerchon]

Getting out of last place after years of residing there is having high expectations?

The Oilers are still the joke of the league, nothing has changed and that status isn't altered until games are played.

All people are hoping for is a team that is even remotely competitive.

I was only referring to expectations about roster improvements. I think Mac T has done alright in this regard. I believe we have an NHL "average" roster from top to bottom this year. IMO coaching and development is what will make or break this up coming year.

For team improvement my expectations are competing for a playoff spot come March. I pvr'd and speed watched most games last year and refused to go to a single live game and requested all family to refrain from buying me any Oilers merchandise. I still love hockey and the Oilers are currently still "my team" but I am done spending money on them until they can improve. So I am right there with others in that regard I just think we have done as much as can be expected in terms of the roster.

 

[Replacement*]

I was only referring to expectations about roster improvements. I think Mac T has done alright in this regard. I believe we have an NHL "average" roster from top to bottom this year. IMO coaching and development is what will make or break this up coming year.

.

This is of course only assumptive. Also dependent on how one views "roster improvements"

If anything my expectations of this club are low at this point. Coaching being a significant part of that.

But I couldn't agree with you at all that we have an average NHL roster. I don't even know if we have an average roster relative to teams missing the playoffs

 

[rboomercat90]

This is of course only assumptive. Also dependent on how one views "roster improvements"

If anything my expectations of this club are low at this point. Coaching being a significant part of that.

But I couldn't agree with you at all that we have an average NHL roster. I don't even know if we have an average roster relative to teams missing the playoffs

We have "roster improvements" every year. The difference this year being they were much more expensive. We'll see if they make any tangible difference to this team when we still have holes at center, a shaky defense and unproven goaltending.

 

[Replacement*]

We have "roster improvements" every year. The difference this year being they were much more expensive. We'll see if they make any tangible difference to this team when we still have holes at center, a shaky defense and unproven goaltending.

Yep. Its amazing on this board how much confidence increases each off season due to the latest platoon of additions to play on a team that has no semblance of team concept.

You could search these threads for any of the past seasons and the optimism is consistent and only the player names different..

I wonder how many decades the Oilers can pull this revolving door shellgame for.

Interesting as well that any past oiler is perceived as garbage through association while any incoming is considered an improvement..

This pattern never failing to disappoint

 

[Mr Positive]

We have "roster improvements" every year. The difference this year being they were much more expensive. We'll see if they make any tangible difference to this team when we still have holes at center, a shaky defense and unproven goaltending.

Of course we can't know how things will work out. It's sports. The point is that the odds are much better. The reason that our changes this year were more expensive was because they are much better players. Even at the time, the main appeal of players like Barker, Eager and Petrell was that they were projects with some potential to grow. Players like Pouliot, Purcell, and Fayne offer something more real.

There is real reason to believe that we will be upgraded from last year in every respect of the game. The only question is how much we are improved, and someone who thinks we have a chance at making the playoffs is not wrong. We all have limited data here. Even so, most of the optimistic fans know that it will be very tough to make the playoffs. It's just nice to see that after last season's (arguable) regression there have been many moves to try and right the ship, and that these moves weren't even close to moves like getting Barker or even Belov (except arguably Nikitin)

 

[Dorian2]

Yep. Its amazing on this board how much confidence increases each off season due to the latest platoon of additions to play on a team that has no semblance of team concept.

You could search these threads for any of the past seasons and the optimism is consistent and only the player names different..

I wonder how many decades the Oilers can pull this revolving door shellgame for.

Interesting as well that any past oiler is perceived as garbage through association while any incoming is considered an improvement..

This pattern never failing to disappoint

Unfortunately Replacement, I agree with this post, as I'm sure many others do.

But the odds are that at some point, our off season optimism will be realized.

Hasn't happened for 8 years now, maybe this year it will change. You never know till you know......you know?

 

[Replacement*]

Of course we can't know how things will work out. It's sports. The point is that the odds are much better. The reason that our changes this year were more expensive was because they are much better players. Even at the time, the main appeal of players like Barker, Eager and Petrell was that they were projects with some potential to grow. Players like Pouliot, Purcell, and Fayne offer something more real.

There is real reason to believe that we will be upgraded from last year in every respect of the game. The only question is how much we are improved, and someone who thinks we have a chance at making the playoffs is not wrong. We all have limited data here. Even so, most of the optimistic fans know that it will be very tough to make the playoffs. It's just nice to see that after last season's (arguable) regression there have been many moves to try and right the ship, and that these moves weren't even close to moves like getting Barker or even Belov (except arguably Nikitin)

Perron addition is better than ANY player we have obtained this season. Scrivens as well. Lets mention as well that the Oilers obtained several other players last year that people were high on coming in. For instance Ference.(I wasn't)

Maybe one could argue that a series of additions cumulatively will have some kind of effect and maybe they bring some kind of chemistry, intangible to the lineup. But to say they are better players than what we've brought in before i.e. Perron and Scrivens, no I wouldn't say that.

I would say that theres a lot of assumption these are better additions resulting in a better team.

My own take is I knew Perron would be gold for us. I knew Hendricks would be a solid addition. I had hoped Belov etal would help out.

What I actually encountered as a fan is that the coach would single handedly deep six any personnel improvements that were added to the club. I daresay that's still very much in the offing regardless of the latest hired help.

I'll be most relieved when we have an actual NHL headcoach here. That should have happened last season.

 

[OiledUp]

Yep. Its amazing on this board how much confidence increases each off season due to the latest platoon of additions to play on a team that has no semblance of team concept.

You could search these threads for any of the past seasons and the optimism is consistent and only the player names different..

I wonder how many decades the Oilers can pull this revolving door shellgame for.

Interesting as well that any past oiler is perceived as garbage through association while any incoming is considered an improvement..

This pattern never failing to disappoint

I don't understand why it's so horrible to try and have a somewhat positive viewpoint before the season starts. It's usually the only time of the year we get that chance. Expecting failure is both boring and a bit chicken imho. To each their own, I don't mind the negative spin on things, but don't see why it should be held against someone if they look for positive signs during the off season.

 

[OiledUp]

Perron addition is better than ANY player we have obtained this season. Scrivens as well. Lets mention as well that the Oilers obtained several other players last year that people were high on coming in. For instance Ference.(I wasn't)

Maybe one could argue that a series of additions cumulatively will have some kind of effect and maybe they bring some kind of chemistry, intangible to the lineup. But to say they are better players than what we've brought in before i.e. Perron and Scrivens, no I wouldn't say that.

I would say that theres a lot of assumption these are better additions resulting in a better team.

My own take is I knew Perron would be gold for us. I knew Hendricks would be a solid addition. I had hoped Belov etal would help out.

What I actually encountered as a fan is that the coach would single handedly deep six any personnel improvements that were added to the club. I daresay that's still very much in the offing regardless of the latest hired help.

I'll be most relieved when we have an actual NHL headcoach here. That should have happened last season.

The Scrivens, Hendricks additions arrived when the season was dead so they are pretty much additions for this year. There you go some off season positivity free of charge

 

[Aerchon]

Perron addition is better than ANY player we have obtained this season. Scrivens as well. Lets mention as well that the Oilers obtained several other players last year that people were high on coming in. For instance Ference.(I wasn't)

Maybe one could argue that a series of additions cumulatively will have some kind of effect and maybe they bring some kind of chemistry, intangible to the lineup. But to say they are better players than what we've brought in before i.e. Perron and Scrivens, no I wouldn't say that.

I would say that theres a lot of assumption these are better additions resulting in a better team.

My own take is I knew Perron would be gold for us. I knew Hendricks would be a solid addition. I had hoped Belov etal would help out.

What I actually encountered as a fan is that the coach would single handedly deep six any personnel improvements that were added to the club. I daresay that's still very much in the offing regardless of the latest hired help.

I'll be most relieved when we have an actual NHL headcoach here. That should have happened last season.

Agree with bolded.

Just wondering. What, if any, of our acquisitions do you consider even a "significant" improvement.

From people I've talked too. In order of quality.

Purcell (Significant)
Fayne (Significant)
Nikita (Depends on chemistry/coaching)
Pouliot (Depends on chemistry/coaching)

And a full year of Scriven and Fasthe while technically not offseason would both probably be at the top of that list.

 

[Up the Irons]

I was only referring to expectations about roster improvements. I think Mac T has done alright in this regard. I believe we have an NHL "average" roster from top to bottom this year. IMO coaching and development is what will make or break this up coming year.

For team improvement my expectations are competing for a playoff spot come March. I pvr'd and speed watched most games last year and refused to go to a single live game and requested all family to refrain from buying me any Oilers merchandise. I still love hockey and the Oilers are currently still "my team" but I am done spending money on them until they can improve. So I am right there with others in that regard I just think we have done as much as can be expected in terms of the roster.

that's fair, tho I do believe they over-value some of the their talent (Eberle, Yak, Schultz, all of whom I see as very tradeable) and prospects (also, all tradeable).

I'll be most relieved when we have an actual NHL headcoach here. That should have happened last season.

this, along with goaltending, were their weakest areas last year. The goaltending should be better. The coaching should be better, too. At least, the staff is probably improved, and Eakins is a year into it with a much more open mind.

The first half last year was a disaster. Rock bottom (tho, everytime I think theyve reached the point they go lower). The odds are pretty good that they will have a better record this year. Playoffs? doubtful. but, a .500 record and respectability is certainly possible.

 

[Replacement*]

I don't understand why it's so horrible to try and have a somewhat positive viewpoint before the season starts. It's usually the only time of the year we get that chance. Expecting failure is both boring and a bit chicken imho. To each their own, I don't mind the negative spin on things, but don't see why it should be held against someone if they look for positive signs during the off season.

Nothing at all with taking any view. I was just commenting on the off season dynamic. We're all built differently too. My own preference is not to build myself up into thinking something else is going on and then being disappointed like I was last year. Bought tickets to 6games last year, that won't be happening this year.

The Scrivens, Hendricks additions arrived when the season was dead so they are pretty much additions for this year. There you go some off season positivity free of charge

Oilers still had a very bad record. There is no segment all year, none, where the Oilers posted up the kind of record that gets teams anywhere near the playoffs. This club was consistently bad. They slowed the bleed through better goaltending but still a bad club.

This is something that people don't give much thought to but theres very few players on this club that could really call themselves Oilers. Good contract or not theres few pro clubs anywhere that expect additions to the club to bring the better attitude and carry the mail. The will to win is usually grown from within.

The Oilers, in constantly devaluing their longstanding past players (handful that they've had) only ensure that they are that much more dependent on newcomers. Its usually a far worse gamble than people think it is.

This isn't the CFL where you can just airlift talent in and succeed. This is a more competitive league with established teams almost every night. The Oilers continue to operate like an expansion club.

 

[Beerfish]

oilinblood: Last year i looked at our roster and said we would finish not out of a playoff spot but the bottomnof the league. MacT was so desperate for centres he was forced to keep and sign Gagner.

Sheer and utter nonsense. MacT signed him because he felt he was a key part of the team after a good strike shortened year. He could have traded Gagner and gotten more after his good year than what he ended up getting.



Wild card is really Leon. After watching a few PA games, i am excited to see him with actual talent to play with. Best of all he always looks like a centre. Most junior centres look like wingers. Aka Gagner on riding Kanes dominance.

And everything MacT said and did as a coach, and everything Eakins said and did as a coach...leads me to fully believe they arent just handing a spot to Leon and he wont always be getting minutes, and he will likely be scratched at times. Leon will likely make the team if hes in shape because i dont think his skills lose out to the others. But he wont be pushed too hard.

Draisitl has the team made. He can show up fat, out of shape, and look bad and he has the team made. Just who are we going to play in his place if he has to 'earn' his spot. I'm all ears.

 

[Beerfish]

I agree the Oilers are a joke but I think the days of the fans giving the organization an easy time are past.

I think mac t is doing a decent job getting solid players. But we can't expect the moon, the sun ,and the stars.

I think some people are going a bit far now with their expectations.

What should fans expect. I know the oilers and a lot of people would like to have hit the reset button when mact was hired. Sorry he doesn't get a fresh year year window.

 

[Up the Irons]

I don't understand why it's so horrible to try and have a somewhat positive viewpoint before the season starts. It's usually the only time of the year we get that chance. Expecting failure is both boring and a bit chicken imho. To each their own, I don't mind the negative spin on things, but don't see why it should be held against someone if they look for positive signs during the off season.

I, along with many others, have just been burned too many times. I've seen this movie before, I've heard all the off-season hype in years past. I mean, really, how can we be positive about another 18 year old filling an important position on the team? There is just too much past evidence that shows this is a bad idea. And yet, the organization just keeps going back to that same well, over and over again.

On paper, I agree, the team should be better. But better than the mediocre AHL team they were last year isn't hard to do. All they need is near average goaltending and they'll be better. Last year, this team looked like an NHL team, maybe.... MAYBE... 20% of the time (and i don't recall them ever looking NHL calibre for an entire game)

After last year, I am finding it impossible to be positive. That was the single worst season of being an Oiler fan ever. Never been lower. Never hated watching hockey more. The organization was literally at war with its fanbase. Kicking people out of the building for wearing their jersey inside-out. Fans purchasing billboards calling for the POHO's head. It will, hopefully, go down in Oilers' lore as rock bottom.

GO OILKINGS GO!!! Go Timberwolves go!!! (Wiggins and Bennet)

 

[rboomercat90]

What should fans expect. I know the oilers and a lot of people would like to have hit the reset button when mact was hired. Sorry he doesn't get a fresh year year window.

I'm shocked at the volume of people that disagree with this sentiment. Funny how most agreed when he was hired that it was a questionable move but they'd be on board for the time being only if he could have this team competing for a playoff spot in two seasons. The first few days he was hired we heard a lot of "If this team isn't a competitive team in two years it will be time for both him and Lowe to go." We saw what happened in year one and nobody expects this team to make the playoffs this year. Not hearing any of this talk now so yeah, definitely, the reset button has been hit.