News Article: Edmonton Oilers: Wait and See at 2C

[oilinblood]

This. A million times.

Those quick stops and starts, pivots, direction changes made a huge impact on his game in his first year.

Anyone who thinks nuge needs a big chest and arms has no knowledge of hockey, physiology nor kinesiology and their opinions on any physical subject i would judge best to ignore.

Even an actual powerforward named a certain Jarome Iginla admitted his drought and awkwardness to start the 05-06 season had to do with his gains during the lockout. Sure he came in to the season bigger than ever but it had little to do with power and explosiveness. His chest and arms got too big that he wasnt able to bring pucks in tight and control when entering high traffic or contested ice, he had extremely poor release on his slap shot and his snapper would break sticks, his cross chest passwas slow and in accurate on plays where he wanted to stare down the goalie then feed quickly a teammate. He spent the rest of the year tying to lose the muscle.

This all goes with just common sense.

I think he looks to be in proper form and his neck, core, and quads are noticably bigger.

 

[Beerfish]

The reasoning for people to want RNH to become bigger and stronger has little to do with on ice performance because that is not his game, it has more to do with not getting rocked and hurt and not being fragile looking. At least that is what I have been assuming all along.

 

[rboomercat90]

Anyone who thinks nuge needs a big chest and arms has no knowledge of hockey, physiology nor kinesiology and their opinions on any physical subject i would judge best to ignore.

Even an actual powerforward named a certain Jarome Iginla admitted his drought and awkwardness to start the 05-06 season had to do with his gains during the lockout. Sure he came in to the season bigger than ever but it had little to do with power and explosiveness. His chest and arms got too big that he wasnt able to bring pucks in tight and control when entering high traffic or contested ice, he had extremely poor release on his slap shot and his snapper would break sticks, his cross chest passwas slow and in accurate on plays where he wanted to stare down the goalie then feed quickly a teammate. He spent the rest of the year tying to lose the muscle.

This all goes with just common sense.

I think he looks to be in proper form and his neck, core, and quads are noticably bigger.

The extra muscle didn't do much for Gagner's game. When he got bigger he just got slower. I don't suspect it'll do much for Nuge's game either when so much of it is predicated on balance and quickness. That's what unfortunately makes him a long term question mark for me. Can he survive in a league filled with people who want to hurt him at his size? For those who say Gretzky did just fine, it's a different league now. Coach can't send a guy out to "take care" of anybody roughing up RNH, instigator rule just gets him tossed. I wouldn't want him to be any bigger than he is in that video.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

The extra muscle didn't do much for Gagner's game. When he got bigger he just got slower. I don't suspect it'll do much for Nuge's game either when so much of it is predicated on balance and quickness. That's what unfortunately makes him a long term question mark for me. Can he survive in a league filled with people who want to hurt him at his size? For those who say Gretzky did just fine, it's a different league now. Coach can't send a guy out to "take care" of anybody roughing up RNH, instigator rule just gets him tossed. I wouldn't want him to be any bigger than he is in that video.

I feel like Nuge with a full training camp and summer training can do some muscle building and then work on regaining his explosiveness and get used to the new weight and muscle.

 

[McOvechking]

You got all that from a grainy YouTube video didja?

1) The video is not particularly grainy
2) Nuge is in a slim fitting t-shirt and shorts - easy to see his frame
3) I'm not speculating on his strength, merely his size
4) Is there a way to hide large amounts of muscle and size in a video?
5) He still looks smaller than me, and I'm the same height and only about 185lbs.

 

[McOvechking]

The reasoning for people to want RNH to become bigger and stronger has little to do with on ice performance because that is not his game, it has more to do with not getting rocked and hurt and not being fragile looking. At least that is what I have been assuming all along.

Completely this.

Anyone who thinks nuge needs a big chest and arms has no knowledge of hockey, physiology nor kinesiology and their opinions on any physical subject i would judge best to ignore.

Even an actual powerforward named a certain Jarome Iginla admitted his drought and awkwardness to start the 05-06 season had to do with his gains during the lockout. Sure he came in to the season bigger than ever but it had little to do with power and explosiveness. His chest and arms got too big that he wasnt able to bring pucks in tight and control when entering high traffic or contested ice, he had extremely poor release on his slap shot and his snapper would break sticks, his cross chest passwas slow and in accurate on plays where he wanted to stare down the goalie then feed quickly a teammate. He spent the rest of the year tying to lose the muscle.

This all goes with just common sense.

I think he looks to be in proper form and his neck, core, and quads are noticably bigger.

And this. His upper body certainly should get bigger though.

 

[LTIR]

He does look a little heavier.

Another year or so and weight shouldn't be a big issue.

man those legs and forearms are skinny as heck.

 

[rboomercat90]

I feel like Nuge with a full training camp and summer training can do some muscle building and then work on regaining his explosiveness and get used to the new weight and muscle.

That's the big question. We'll see.

 

[Arpeggio]

man those legs and forearms are skinny as heck.

Why would he need big forearms? As long as he's strong he'll be fine, it doesn't matter how big he is.

 

[oilinblood]

Has anyone even noticed the way Nuge skates? His body posture when he skates is to protect and drive as much force as possible. Its actually a very interesting skating style that may have been picked up as self defense and then fine tuned with skating coaches. Friends and i tried skating in his style and its pretty effective at bouncing off checks and also if delivering a hit it allows you to explode more mass through a smaller contact space. Its like the difference between punching someone with a fixed body position and running at someone while holding a bar stool out so all your body force is transferred into one foot of the stool and exploding through your target.
He should be fine.
The shoulder was an old issue. Old issues aside hes quite capable of holding his own.

He is also a yappy mofo on the ice and people have always taken runs at him. If its not from behind i see the person lining up nuge as taking a big chance that nuges arrow stance is going to make him look stupid and be the one trying to control the physics of uneven force transfer and hurting themselves. If its straight on, nuge will avoid or punch through with the arrow.

This is how he has gotten where he is while being consistently smaller than all his opponents forever and ever.

Couch potatos talking about the lack of physique on nhl players and already elite athletes who earn life time salary accumilation in one year. I hope nuge shuts them up. One shoulder hanging by a thread from junior...is the reason for all this? Laughable. The kids been rocked numerous times and was the one standing despite being the target and a good 20 lbs lighter in practically every instance.

 

[oilinblood]

Why would he need big forearms? As long as he's strong he'll be fine, it doesn't matter how big he is.

Because David Krejci and Patrice Bergeron...two of the toughest and most skilled centers in the league working and succeeding on a hated team and most physical and defensive system in the league...have big forearms?

And considering the guy is basically skating in a readied partial squat at all times...i can attest he has more power in his legs than most of those plug players with their plug mass.

My only concern is how long will the foot of the bar stool last? Lucky he had shoulder surgery early in his career. Its known that if healed properly his fixed shoulder should be much stronger than his natural shoulder. And at his age bones are still fusing at high rates until about 22.

Good to go. Time to shut couch potatos up, Nuge.

 

[McOvechking]

Why would he need big forearms? As long as he's strong he'll be fine, it doesn't matter how big he is.

Do you play hockey? Stick handling, wrist shots, and faceoffs all deal strongly with forearm strength.

 

[oilinblood]

Completely this.



And this. His upper body certainly should get bigger though.

I hear what you are saying and it will get bigger. If anyone wants to gain mass and bulk they can pretty quickly with the right regiment and diet. If someone wants explosive gains it will take longer...and diet will be more important to sustain gains and keep a body from going catabolic on his muscle. For his body type it will take time and i predict he will be fine. The gains ive seen him make every year are extremely noticable to me.

There is a difference between the work someone puts in to just look good at the club, the gains powder puffs make....and the gains of a specialized pro athlete getting paid 100k a night.

And to clarify...powder puff... Is a reference to water weight gained through additives in most commercial protein shakes and supps like creatine and nitros (which again often include water retenders in the mix as filler and to cater to masses with illusionary results) and also test en, anabol, dia and other steroids. Your basically making youself a girl and gaining water weight... Looking like a pregnant lady storing water to feed two incase nature doesnt provide (the body doesnt know there are things called grocery stores) is not strength. For powder puffs its fine because they want to look bigger and arent in a competition where they need to be on a cut cycle...plus the water retention provides a bit of extra lubrication for joints, especially steroid water retention which is why steroids are prescribed in the first place. This allows you to push higher weight and quicker recovery times when on cycle. Problem is that those joints and tendons didnt get worked for the new mass until you drop the girly water weight...then they are in for a shock. Long term there is going to be damage and any lifter thats gained alot in a short period using these supps and has been involved for quite a while can attest to the issues and has far more tendon and joint issues than comparably physical strained athletes who maintained natural vascularity.

Nuge is clearly eating a clean high protein diet with no additives. He can afford to do so where as most builders simply can.t be eating and drinking the kind of high quality protein he needs to. He also doesnt need the water retention pregnancy lubricant for his joints because he is training them properly to earn money long term and be the fine tuned elite athlete he is paid to be. He isnt putting on mass to attract barely out of teen girls at a club with his bloated biceps. He will increase weights on pace with his bodys ability to sustain support.

Nuge cant go out and pack on commoner weight with commoner food and he cant cheat with quick fixes if he wants to maintain his finesse and guard his tendons joints and support muscles. Anyone can bulk and bulk fast if they dont need precision or...health long term.

Frankly he looks in tip top shape for his frame.

 

[oilinblood]

Do you play hockey? Stick handling, wrist shots, and faceoffs all deal strongly with forearm strength.

I think everyone realizes that. Nuges world class elite stick handling and snipe are not in question.

 

[Arpeggio]

My point was that Nuge has a skinny frame, he's never gonna have massive forearms. As long as they're strong he'll be goos to go.

 

[Tw0Shoes]

Do you play hockey? Stick handling, wrist shots, and faceoffs all deal strongly with forearm strength.

Snapshot maybe. Definitely not wrist shot. All your power comes from weight transfer from your legs in a wrist shot.

 

[oilinblood]

Snapshot maybe. Definitely not wrist shot. All your power comes from weight transfer from your legs in a wrist shot.

This isnt really debatable. Forearms and wristsstrength are needed.

The main point back is passes speed and control, wrist shot, snap shot, and stickhandling are all elite with nuge. If he was a winger we would see examples of it more but he is a centre and a puck distributor. His forearms are a non-issue...crisp heavy tape to tape, and snipes when he actually has someone feed him a decent pass. Great snap on his release.

TH

 

[Tw0Shoes]

This isnt really debatable. Forearms and wristsstrength are needed.

The main point back is passes speed and control, wrist shot, snap shot, and stickhandling are all elite with nuge. If he was a winger we would see examples of it more but he is a centre and a puck distributor. His forearms are a non-issue...crisp heavy tape to tape, and snipes when he actually has someone feed him a decent pass. Great snap on his release.

TH

You're right, you can't take a wrist shot without fore arms, or any shot for that matter. Also I'm not debating it, I'm telling you, the strength/heaviness of a wrist shot is not derived from forearm strength, unless you're doing it wrong.

 

[McOvechking]

I hear what you are saying and it will get bigger. If anyone wants to gain mass and bulk they can pretty quickly with the right regiment and diet. If someone wants explosive gains it will take longer...and diet will be more important to sustain gains and keep a body from going catabolic on his muscle. For his body type it will take time and i predict he will be fine. The gains ive seen him make every year are extremely noticable to me.

There is a difference between the work someone puts in to just look good at the club, the gains powder puffs make....and the gains of a specialized pro athlete getting paid 100k a night.

And to clarify...powder puff... Is a reference to water weight gained through additives in most commercial protein shakes and supps like creatine and nitros (which again often include water retenders in the mix as filler and to cater to masses with illusionary results) and also test en, anabol, dia and other steroids. Your basically making youself a girl and gaining water weight... Looking like a pregnant lady storing water to feed two incase nature doesnt provide (the body doesnt know there are things called grocery stores) is not strength. For powder puffs its fine because they want to look bigger and arent in a competition where they need to be on a cut cycle...plus the water retention provides a bit of extra lubrication for joints, especially steroid water retention which is why steroids are prescribed in the first place. This allows you to push higher weight and quicker recovery times when on cycle. Problem is that those joints and tendons didnt get worked for the new mass until you drop the girly water weight...then they are in for a shock. Long term there is going to be damage and any lifter thats gained alot in a short period using these supps and has been involved for quite a while can attest to the issues and has far more tendon and joint issues than comparably physical strained athletes who maintained natural vascularity.

Nuge is clearly eating a clean high protein diet with no additives. He can afford to do so where as most builders simply can.t be eating and drinking the kind of high quality protein he needs to. He also doesnt need the water retention pregnancy lubricant for his joints because he is training them properly to earn money long term and be the fine tuned elite athlete he is paid to be. He isnt putting on mass to attract barely out of teen girls at a club with his bloated biceps. He will increase weights on pace with his bodys ability to sustain support.

Nuge cant go out and pack on commoner weight with commoner food and he cant cheat with quick fixes if he wants to maintain his finesse and guard his tendons joints and support muscles. Anyone can bulk and bulk fast if they dont need precision or...health long term.

Frankly he looks in tip top shape for his frame.

I enjoy reading your comments. You clearly know your stuff! As an athlete and someone in the gym 4 times a week for the last 6 years, I definitely agree with much of what you said. However, a little bit of bulking at this stage of his career is not going to be detrimental. I'd almost rather see him just pack those 10-15 pounds on now, and focus on making gains with the added bodyweight.

I don't want him to be bigger to be stronger per se. I want him to be bigger to be more difficult to push off the puck.

I think everyone realizes that. Nuges world class elite stick handling and snipe are not in question.

Absolutely.

You're right, you can't take a wrist shot without fore arms, or any shot for that matter. Also I'm not debating it, I'm telling you, the strength/heaviness of a wrist shot is not derived from forearm strength, unless you're doing it wrong.

That's like saying a bench press is not derived from tricep strength. Form, leg strength, and hip torque are critical aspects of a wrist shot, but forearm strength compliments those.

Edit: Just as tricep strength compliments your pecs in a benchpress.

 

[Tw0Shoes]

That's like saying a bench press is not derived from tricep strength. Form, leg strength, and hip torque are critical aspects of a wrist shot, but forearm strength compliments those.

Edit: Just as tricep strength compliments your pecs in a benchpress.

Originally Posted by Ovechking
Do you play hockey? Stick handling, wrist shots, and faceoffs all deal strongly with forearm strength.

Definitely difference is what you just posted to what you previously posted.

In a wrist shot you should be hardly using your forearms at all to generate power. Snapshot is a lot of forearms, which is why kids couldn't do them right with wood sticks.

 

[oilinblood]

I enjoy reading your comments. You clearly know your stuff! As an athlete and someone in the gym 4 times a week for the last 6 years, I definitely agree with much of what you said. However, a little bit of bulking at this stage of his career is not going to be detrimental. I'd almost rather see him just pack those 10-15 pounds on now, and focus on making gains with the added bodyweight.

I don't want him to be bigger to be stronger per se. I want him to be bigger to be more difficult to push off the puck.


Absolutely.


That's like saying a bench press is not derived from tricep strength. Form, leg strength, and hip torque are critical aspects of a wrist shot, but forearm strength compliments those.

Edit: Just as tricep strength compliments your pecs in a benchpress.

thats one of the reasons i brought up Nuges "arrow" skating stance and stride. I ve never seen anyone in hockey with that body posture. And as i stated, trying it myself i found i could explode defensively better when recieving hits...and hurt the initiator. Also its difficult to knock me down in that stance. If someone attacks from the side, i can lower myself a bit more to take their centre of gravity out. Really risky on their part. To deliver hits from the arrow stance is basically the most solid to the ice.

Unfortunately its a weird style i had to consciously keep myself in while playing and id catch myself getting straighter in form because skating in Nuge fashion is a big ass workout. Most friends gave up trying or couldnt maintain it. I am 5' 11" and i never paid much attention to my skating but interestingly i do sit a bit when i skate and lean forward and butt out. This is why i had more success maintaining the lower v formation that nuge darts around in. Its a more exaggerated style than i skate in.

Interesting experience.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Talking about previously banned posters is a no no. Also if you think that someone has an alt identity use the report post function and the mods will look into it. As it stands I have no reason to believe that the poster that was accused of being an alt of a previously banned poster is an alt account.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I guess no one here has even heard of wiry strong? Everyone has to be 220+ lbs. to be strong apparently. Wait until RNH matches up with Gagner, we'll see who wins those physical battles in spite of Gagner having a thicker frame and more weight to him than RNH does. Getting RNH stronger without adding a whole bunch of mass on him is the best way IMO. RNH in his prime shouldn't be an ounce over 200lbs. if he ever even gets there.

 

[oilinblood]

I don't need to learn from posters on hockey ,or coaches but thx for the concern. I am on many different sites reading many different things. If a post is to long winded I skip over them, no offence to original poster. But I am glad you learned something.

No offence was taken.

Just saying, although i am not an eakins fan nor a hater, i can think of a number of elite coaches that are fantastic that fall on their faces at the start of their terms with new teams. Also i dont think Clode or Martin or Hitch or Quenne or Babs had as much going against them in their starts as Eakins did. Incompetent assistants who he couldnt judge yet and kept on staff to find they added nothing and infact were giving their delegated groups mixed messages...a team which started with only one nhl centre...no goalie who will survive out of the ahl...and a roster that was ahl worthy not nhl (that mact openly said the entire bottom six was a black hole and had to be remade, his top six needed more push and jam, and his defence needed to be more punishing and box present, and the goaltending he didnt comment on but shopped tirelessly for a replacement...that is how bad the GM assessed his team in his first solo presser as GM).
Was it a mistake to think a young cored team would be able to pickup a dramatic change in system? Yes. Eakins said it was his mistake. He owned up to it.
To me Eakins isnt a mistake yet. I think its been shown that last year had many issues and unlike Lowe and Tambo...MacT had a long history as a coach. Whether you liked him as a coach or not, i did, he clearly demonstrated at times his utter hate of having a weak roster (many times playing wingers at centre, having a dman take a draw are clear smoke signals to management to give him the tools he needs). MacT was given a team with this kind of talent ONCE in his career...for a whole three months total.

Eakins is on trialNOW. This team is worlds better at the cost of one departed asset that didnt fit into the blueprint and the only team interested in him was going to buy him out...pay money to be rid of him...and then ate his cap to throw him to another team for free.

 

[oilz89*]

Man some of you guys are just plain weird.... I think Nuge knows he needs to gain more strength but some of you guys are just going nuts. "His forearms in that video look small", "His chest looks so small!!", " His neck isn't even thicker then the last time i checked". Guys relax!! I think he has more common sense then us armchair trainers.