Elks: Edmonton Eskimos 2018 v3

[The Hound]

People seriously think it’s going to take a couple successful seasons before getting a shot? Bo Levi should’ve been gone ages ago. Even then, Manziel will be creeping on 30. Whatever bottom feeder team desperate for QBs will be looking to the draft, not an older CFL player. IMO

 

[Drivesaitl]

Is that why Maas hasn’t fired McDiarmid (his special teams coordinator) yet?

heh, yeah I know. I would have pulled the trigger on that one. I think it helps that McDiarmid is a fiery sort as well and that aspect compliments or resembles Maas so they probably have familiarity with that.

In an odd way Maas has shown patience. I really don't think he holds grudges.

The positive aspect of Maas is as a player or other coach you know right away when you stepped in it. Most people in football or pro sports (or most anyway) like that directness, they want to know.

The worse is when a higher up has it in for you and you don't know.

Not condoning the Maasisms but..

I mean this is somebody that gets mad at a Gatorade keg. Best not to take it personal...

 

[Cloned]

People seriously think it’s going to take a couple successful seasons before getting a shot? Bo Levi should’ve been gone ages ago. Even then, Manziel will be creeping on 30. Whatever bottom feeder team desperate for QBs will be looking to the draft, not an older CFL player. IMO

I believe BLM has gotten offers or offers to workout but has chosen to stay as a top starter here. Manziel also has draft pedigree working for him on top of that. That being said, it is hard to say whether Manziel would prefer a clipboard backup role in the NFL vs a starting role here. Everyone is wired differently.

 

[Drivesaitl]

People seriously think it’s going to take a couple successful seasons before getting a shot? Bo Levi should’ve been gone ages ago. Even then, Manziel will be creeping on 30. Whatever bottom feeder team desperate for QBs will be looking to the draft, not an older CFL player. IMO

How often does Bo really generate the kind of numbers or stats that would get much of a look down south. I think a quantum difference is that the Stamps win on a team basis. Being strong 3 sides of the ball. Bo numbers are not usually spectacular in anyway.

 

[Cloned]

How often does Bo really generate the kind of numbers or stats that would get much of a look down south. I think a quantum difference is that the Stamps win on a team basis. Being strong 3 sides of the ball. Bo numbers are not usually spectacular in anyway.

This as well.

Although like I said he has spurned the NFL so far. But this winter might be different:

Francis: Could Bo Levi Mitchell be on the go?

 

[The Hound]

How often does Bo really generate the kind of numbers or stats that would get much of a look down south. I think a quantum difference is that the Stamps win on a team basis. Being strong 3 sides of the ball. Bo numbers are not usually spectacular in anyway.

Fair enough. Even if Manziel improves after years here, I don’t think he’ll ever reach the level where he’s good enough to be a reliable Nfl starter. He did nothing in the Nfl, like most Cfl greats. I just think the Cfl is the league for him. How many great Cfl stars can make the jump and stay successful? Flutie and Moon were before my time, only Cam Wake comes to mind. He absolutely owned this league and is a monster for Miami.

I want Manziel to be great here, it’d benefit him and our league. I just don’t think if he reaches all star status here, after years of getting accustomed to our game that it’d translate to the Nfl. He won’t reach Ricky Ray, Damon Allen, or Calvillo level. Especially not Calvillo who is imo the greatest QB to play in the Cfl, and one of the greatest ever. I think because of his reputation he’ll get offers, but I just don’t see a positive outcome if he left to try again. Maybe, if he wasn’t a QB.

 

[shoop]

Are you quoting the right post because I’m fairly sure @shoop is arguing for a shorter timeframe than either of us.

Just to be clear, if Manziel plays well in 2019 then I think he has a shot at returning to the NFL in 2020.

He did sign a two-year contract so the timeline works.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Manziel will always have the hype train going for him. Same way Tim Tebow was still getting pre-season reps until he decided to go play baseball. As long as terrible organizations like the Browns, Jets, Bucs, etc exist, Manziel will get offers at the soonest possible opportunity simply to drum up interest.

 

[Cloned]

Manziel will always have the hype train going for him. Same way Tim Tebow was still getting pre-season reps until he decided to go play baseball. As long as terrible organizations like the Browns, Jets, Bucs, etc exist, Manziel will get offers at the soonest possible opportunity simply to drum up interest.

Yep. Although I would probably cross the Browns off the list, lol.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Fair enough. Even if Manziel improves after years here, I don’t think he’ll ever reach the level where he’s good enough to be a reliable Nfl starter. He did nothing in the Nfl, like most Cfl greats. I just think the Cfl is the league for him. How many great Cfl stars can make the jump and stay successful? Flutie and Moon were before my time, only Cam Wake comes to mind. He absolutely owned this league and is a monster for Miami.

I want Manziel to be great here, it’d benefit him and our league. I just don’t think if he reaches all star status here, after years of getting accustomed to our game that it’d translate to the Nfl. He won’t reach Ricky Ray, Damon Allen, or Calvillo level. Especially not Calvillo who is imo the greatest QB to play in the Cfl, and one of the greatest ever. I think because of his reputation he’ll get offers, but I just don’t see a positive outcome if he left to try again. Maybe, if he wasn’t a QB.

Sorry but Warren Moon is much better than Calvillo. It’s not even close.

 

[joestevens29]

People seriously think it’s going to take a couple successful seasons before getting a shot? Bo Levi should’ve been gone ages ago. Even then, Manziel will be creeping on 30. Whatever bottom feeder team desperate for QBs will be looking to the draft, not an older CFL player. IMO

Big difference being Bo Levi has no connections to the NFL and isn't a former high profile pick.

Everyone is watching Johnny right now. No one is looking at Bo Levi. Johnny needs to turn the Als around and he'll be getting calls again.

 

[joestevens29]

Fair enough. Even if Manziel improves after years here, I don’t think he’ll ever reach the level where he’s good enough to be a reliable Nfl starter. He did nothing in the Nfl, like most Cfl greats. I just think the Cfl is the league for him. How many great Cfl stars can make the jump and stay successful? Flutie and Moon were before my time, only Cam Wake comes to mind. He absolutely owned this league and is a monster for Miami.

I want Manziel to be great here, it’d benefit him and our league. I just don’t think if he reaches all star status here, after years of getting accustomed to our game that it’d translate to the Nfl. He won’t reach Ricky Ray, Damon Allen, or Calvillo level. Especially not Calvillo who is imo the greatest QB to play in the Cfl, and one of the greatest ever. I think because of his reputation he’ll get offers, but I just don’t see a positive outcome if he left to try again. Maybe, if he wasn’t a QB.

This is different though. It's not a CFL star going to the NFL. It's a former NFLer trying to make it back.

I also don't know that Johnny will have to be the starter to go back. He's going to have to work his way back into a starter from within an organization. Heck even Flutie kinda lucked out when he went down. An early injury allowed him playing time.

 

[The Hound]

Sorry but Warren Moon is much better than Calvillo. It’s not even close.

It’s my opinion, not a fact...

This is different though. It's not a CFL star going to the NFL. It's a former NFLer trying to make it back.

I also don't know that Johnny will have to be the starter to go back. He's going to have to work his way back into a starter from within an organization. Heck even Flutie kinda lucked out when he went down. An early injury allowed him playing time.

It’s really not. Many Cfl players have played a few games in the Nfl before being cut, going unsigned, etc. I think Manziel is more focused on just playing ball again, not getting back to the Nfl. Doesn’t mean he won’t in the future, but we’ll wait and see.

 

[The Hound]

This is different though. It's not a CFL star going to the NFL. It's a former NFLer trying to make it back.

I also don't know that Johnny will have to be the starter to go back. He's going to have to work his way back into a starter from within an organization. Heck even Flutie kinda lucked out when he went down. An early injury allowed him playing time.

Manziel has done nothing in the Nfl. All his hype is from his glory days playing college football. At 27-28 when he’s hopefully had a few good seasons, we’ll see if Nfl teams will be lining up for him, or if the hype dies out.

 

[Stoneman89]

Yeah, in a weird way his absolute struggle in the CFL thus far is good news as far as keeping him. I mean honestly he was so bad so far that if his name was not Manziel he might not be seeing another start.

I'm saying this from the perspective of loving mobile CFL QB's and wanting him to succeed but he hasn't even rushed well. He hasn't evaded tackle well. He hasn't been sharp at all.

Lets be clear here too. He's been watching CFL football all season. this isn't coming in cold never having seen the game. In the telecasts they say he's doing the playbook work and brushing up but its so common that plays look like a surprise to him.

One unexpected thing is how much defenders seem to want to annihilate him out there. He sure isn't well liked. Opponents are wanting to go out of their way to take helmet to helmet hits on him. I don't know where that's coming from honestly but its sure been the case. He's getting hit viciously repeatedly. To the point where I'm not clear if he will even be healthy for the game against the Esks.

A heck of lot different watching games than playing them though, so I'll give him that. You can sit on the sidelines and in the meetings till the cows come home, but there is nothing compares to actually being out there in game situations to learn. I don't care what sport or league it is.

As for him getting hit more viciously than anyone else in the league, apparently you missed the Lions/Eskimos game. Both QB's got destroyed repeatedly in that one, and kudos to both of them for standing in there and taking it.

 

[Stoneman89]

I'll give due credit here that Jones handled the dismissal of Carter very responsibly. Very good answers in presser;

Jones: "We released a very good player" - CFL.ca

Also the comments here are weird. I would have Carter play on my team. He's capable on the football field. Its his ego that needs addressing and he needs to be a better part of football teams. Some guys require more management, and talking to, just what it is. He's certainly no worse a project personality than Duke Williams is here.

Jones repeatedly said "we're going in a different direction", but "good player". Usually code for, "disruptive in the organization, and has inability to change". Likely similar to the last coach and GM's thoughts and words.

Really hope he signs in Montreal and they can continue with the shit show there, and bring in Danny Maciocia to cap things off. Have a complete melt down before all the heads start to roll.

 

[MoneyGuy]

Jones repeatedly said "we're going in a different direction", but "good player". Usually code for, "disruptive in the organization, and has inability to change". Likely similar to the last coach and GM's thoughts and words.

Really hope he signs in Montreal and they can continue with the **** show there, and bring in Danny Maciocia to cap things off. Have a complete melt down before all the heads start to roll.

We should want Montreal to do well. Toronto, too, for the good of the league.

 

[joestevens29]

A heck of lot different watching games than playing them though, so I'll give him that. You can sit on the sidelines and in the meetings till the cows come home, but there is nothing compares to actually being out there in game situations to learn. I don't care what sport or league it is.

As for him getting hit more viciously than anyone else in the league, apparently you missed the Lions/Eskimos game. Both QB's got destroyed repeatedly in that one, and kudos to both of them for standing in there and taking it.

My problem is even a guy who is a vet gets a bit of a break usually. A chance to get comfortable and learn his teammates and playbook. Manziel just got thrown in far too quick in Montreal.

What also gets to me and someone mentioned this, is MTL needs to design their playbook around him now. One of the knocks on Manziel is that he does spend enough time off the field watching tape. That Montreal club should have 5 or 6 guys watching Manziel videos from College and the NFL. They need to build the playbook around what has worked for him and stay away from what hasn't worked.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Jones repeatedly said "we're going in a different direction", but "good player". Usually code for, "disruptive in the organization, and has inability to change". Likely similar to the last coach and GM's thoughts and words.

Really hope he signs in Montreal and they can continue with the **** show there, and bring in Danny Maciocia to cap things off. Have a complete melt down before all the heads start to roll.

Hey, I'm disruptive, how can I legitimately hold it against a guy for being disruptive? heh. Is that quoteworthy? My favorite alltime player personality being Glenn Anderson. So yeah I like shit stirrers. That said I'm not as built for team comradery.

I'll always say its what the player/employee can do in their jobs that matters. Last thing I ever want is yes men that can't perform as well. I'll take players with some baggage if they can play. Fact of the matter is a player like Duke is with the Eskimos because of baggage. Without which he'd be flirting with NFL rosters. You take that skill and work with it.

 

[Stoneman89]

We should want Montreal to do well. Toronto, too, for the good of the league.

If you really want Montreal to do well (and we all do), you need to think big picture, and have them dip so low, that they have HAVE to fire Reed and clean house. It's the only way.

 

[Drivesaitl]

If you really want Montreal to do well (and we all do), you need to think big picture, and have them dip so low, that they have HAVE to fire Reed and clean house. It's the only way.

Pretty good point but the danger zone is in fan support falling off the cliff again prior to tank and turnaround. I just don't get how some of these guys get so many 2nd chances in management or coaching. Players get singled out but coaches and managers it seems can be terrible and still land somewhere. Which is strange because far less coach and manager positions exist in pro ranks.

 

[Stoneman89]

Hey, I'm disruptive, how can I legitimately hold it against a guy for being disruptive? heh. Is that quoteworthy? My favorite alltime player personality being Glenn Anderson. So yeah I like **** stirrers. That said I'm not as built for team comradery.

I'll always say its what the player/employee can do in their jobs that matters. Last thing I ever want is yes men that can't perform as well. I'll take players with some baggage if they can play. Fact of the matter is a player like Duke is with the Eskimos because of baggage. Without which he'd be flirting with NFL rosters.

Bad example, Glenn Anderson is. A different cat? No doubt, but not disruptive to the team in any way. Always a team guy.

Duke may have come here with some baggage, but from all accounts, his behaviour off the field has been exemplary. He's taken his new lease on life to heart, worked his ass off in the off season to get himself in CFL type of shape, and is now enjoying the benefits of that lifestyle. He seems to have completely bought into the team concept. Never get that feeling with Carter. More like a cancer.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Bad example, Glenn Anderson is. A different cat? No doubt, but not disruptive to the team in any way. Always a team guy.

Duke may have come here with some baggage, but from all accounts, his behaviour off the field has been exemplary. He's taken his new lease on life to heart, worked his ass off in the off season to get himself in CFL type of shape, and is now enjoying the benefits of that lifestyle. He seems to have completely bought into the team concept. Never get that feeling with Carter. More like a cancer.

Anderson wasn't disruptive to THIS team because the org at the time knew how to handle guys with a unique bent. Throw Anderson in a milieu like Boston and I wonder how long before that group finds things wrong with him. I think even the current Oilers org would have trouble with Anderson. Interesting that the org couldn't even handle Anderson well in his 2nd stint here. Love the player, but he was a challenge on and off the ice. Could go at length on that but not the topic here.

Far as Duke he's landing here successfully because players like Reilly and Maas and the org really have his back. He's shown some not great things as well. But the team is constantly believing in him and constantly being positive with him. Not dissimilar to how they were with Bowman. Good on the org to be able to do that.

I really don't think Carter has been properly utilized in Sask. Kind of odd to to have a guy play 3 sides of the ball and put him in tons of difficult spots and then say you're moving away from the guy. One day he's a primary defender covering top receivers, or even being a reasonable receiver, next day you're gone. Its off the field where the problem lies. The player can play. I would have Carter here in an instant over what we got in the secondary.

The one aspect I wouldn't tolerate is his trash talking opponents. That shit has to go but it would. Maybe he needed this kick in the pants.

 

[iCanada]

Speaking of divisiveness, and the league requiring better QB talent than some of the riffraff we've had for a while...

Does anyone think Colin Kaepernick would consider playing a stint up north?

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Speaking of divisiveness, and the league requiring better QB talent than some of the riffraff we've had for a while...

Does anyone think Colin Kaepernick would consider playing a stint up north?

Hopefully not, he’s a guy who puts himself before his team or league