Elks: Edmonton Eskimos 2018 v3

[Drivesaitl]

I'll give due credit here that Jones handled the dismissal of Carter very responsibly. Very good answers in presser;

Jones: "We released a very good player" - CFL.ca

Also the comments here are weird. I would have Carter play on my team. He's capable on the football field. Its his ego that needs addressing and he needs to be a better part of football teams. Some guys require more management, and talking to, just what it is. He's certainly no worse a project personality than Duke Williams is here.

 

[guymez]

The "problem" is that if he succeeds, he'll likely be gone within a year. NFL teams are just waiting to see some sort of maturity and improvement in his game and his character, and if he shows that, he'll very likely be given another shot down south.

Not a chance. He needs to establish himself here before the NFL takes him seriously again.
Look how long Flutie had to sustain his high level in the CFL before he got a shot in the NFL....and Flutie didn't burn any bridges before he left the NFL.

Assuming he succeeds Manziel is here for a few years IMO.

 

[Drivesaitl]

His improved character and maturity would play a part in that decision. Live out your dreams as a star professional football player, or just make money being backup to the backup lol. Take Ricky Ray’s NFL career for example.

It seems Manziel wants to be here. A less committed player would have packed the bags and left Hamilton after clearly not being the guy there. That had to be disappointing but he handled it as well as could be expected. He's clearly not done with football but I can't see him being a guy that would rather be holding a clip book the rest of his days. That isn't consistent with his ego.

 

[Cloned]

Not a chance. He needs to establish himself here before the NFL takes him seriously again.
Look how long Flutie had to sustain his high level in the CFL before he got a shot in the NFL....and Flutie didn't burn any bridges before he left the NFL.

Manziel is here for a few years IMO.

Flutie was shorter and we all know how NFL teams like taller QBs. Not that Manziel is a giant either but two inches is significant. Flutie also played at a time when there were a lot more capable QBs in the NFL. These days it’s kind of a dog’s breakfast down there, and to be honest some teams could use the exposure too.

 

[Cloned]

It seems Manziel wants to be here. A less committed player would have packed the bags and left Hamilton after clearly not being the guy there. That had to be disappointing but he handled it as well as could be expected. He's clearly not done with football but I can't see him being a guy that would rather be holding a clip book the rest of his days. That isn't consistent with his ego.

He didn’t really have a choice. This was basically Last Chance Texaco for him.

 

[guymez]

Flutie was shorter and we all know how NFL teams like taller QBs. Not that Manziel is a giant either but two inches is significant. Flutie also played at a time when there were a lot more capable QBs in the NFL. These days it’s kind of a dog’s breakfast down there, and to be honest some teams could use the exposure too.

They are both short by NFL standards. Also...I think you are underestimating the importance of relationships and credibility.
Manziel has to rebuild both and that takes time.
No way Manziel is only here 1 season if he succeeds.

 

[The Hound]

I'll give due credit here that Jones handled the dismissal of Carter very responsibly. Very good answers in presser;

Jones: "We released a very good player" - CFL.ca

Also the comments here are weird. I would have Carter play on my team. He's capable on the football field. Its his ego that needs addressing and he needs to be a better part of football teams. Some guys require more management, and talking to, just what it is. He's certainly no worse a project personality than Duke Williams is here.

Jones could’ve told him in person. A phone call after hearing rumours from teammates is disgusting. I would absolutely love him here, kamehameha wave TDs for everyone

 

[guymez]

Jones could’ve told him in person. A phone call after hearing rumours from teammates is disgusting. I would absolutely love him here, kamehameha wave TDs for everyone

DC is supremely talented but his presence creates too much drama IMO.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He didn’t really have a choice. This was basically Last Chance Texaco for him.

I know but basically because things like NFL Europe isn't an option now. The CFL is now it as far as Next talent league and so it is my take that more NFL eyes are watching CFL talent than was the case when other football leagues were a going concern.

This means a few things. The CFL has a pipeline to getting better talent, but also losing that better talent quicker and so that we get to see it so fleetingly. Its a weird mix for me because I like continuity. I like bonding with players on a fan basis. Of the familiarity of having players for awhile. The constant roster change doesn't do much for my affinity to product. Really its the AHL problem in a nutshell. AHL fans start loving a player and then he's gone. In that extent the CFL is a victim of the success of being a Football league that survived.

 

[Cloned]

They are both short by NFL standards. Also...I think you are underestimating the importance of relationships and credibility.
Manziel has to rebuild both and that takes time.
No way Manziel is only here 1 season if he succeeds.

Yeah, but size was a huge factor in Flutie being passed over after his initial NFL stint. It’s never been mentioned as a huge factor in Manziel’s exit.

I said within a year, meaning I think if he had a full successful year here, he’d be gone after another season (so basically 2 successful seasons here). I think after 2 years of success, both on and off the field, an NFL team would be willing to give him a shot.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Jones could’ve told him in person. A phone call after hearing rumours from teammates is disgusting. I would absolutely love him here, kamehameha wave TDs for everyone

Yeah that's a good point but do we know for sure how DC found out. Just because DC twittered his reaction doesn't mean he heard about it in email or online or phone. Maybe I didn't read or listen closely enough. Any info saying that Jones didn't tell him?

 

[Cloned]

I know but basically because things like NFL Europe isn't an option now. The CFL is now it as far as Next talent league and so it is my take that more NFL eyes are watching CFL talent than was the case when other football leagues were a going concern.

This means a few things. The CFL has a pipeline to getting better talent, but also losing that better talent quicker and so that we get to see it so fleetingly. Its a weird mix for me because I like continuity. I like bonding with players on a fan basis. Of the familiarity of having players for awhile. The constant roster change doesn't do much for my affinity to product. Really its the AHL problem in a nutshell. AHL fans start loving a player and then he's gone. In that extent the CFL is a victim of the success of being a Football league that survived.

I agree with everything here. It’s one of the reasons why I think the league needs to increase the cap. This isn’t the early 2000’s anymore - every team in the league could afford a 10M cap I think.

 

[MoneyGuy]

One prominent CFL scout says Manziel is elite and one of the 10 best athletes ever to play here. I don’t know if it’s true but it’s not talent that’s holding him back. He’s only played two games.

 

[Cloned]

One prominent CFL scout says Manziel is elite and one of the 10 best athletes ever to play here. I don’t know if it’s true but it’s not talent that’s holding him back. He’s only played two games.

His mental game needs time to catch up to his physical tools. It may never do so, or it could after a few more months. Time will tell.

 

[guymez]

Yeah, but size was a huge factor in Flutie being passed over after his initial NFL stint. It’s never been mentioned as a huge factor in Manziel’s exit.

I said within a year, meaning I think if he had a full successful year here, he’d be gone after another season (so basically 2 successful seasons here). I think after 2 years of success, both on and off the field, an NFL team would be willing to give him a shot.

Disagree. I think you are way short on the time frame. You need to factor in the reality of the way Manziel departed the NFL and that 1 season in the CFL isnt really proof of anything.

 

[Drivesaitl]

One prominent CFL scout says Manziel is elite and one of the 10 best athletes ever to play here. I don’t know if it’s true but it’s not talent that’s holding him back. He’s only played two games.

Fair comment. We've all heard the Manziel buzz. But as good as anybody is can you survive 3 or more years of not playing at all and still be able to play football at the professional level. If you can, how difficult is it to do that? I really can't think of too many precedents at QB that have done this.

I'll add that it is more difficult for some players to do BECAUSE of the notoriety. It really does seem to be open season on Manziel thus far. Again not sure why that is but opponents really seem to want to mess him up. Oddly even the Ticats he was a team mate of before.

League really needs to crank down on the helmet to helmet shots in general . Been a lot more of it.

Finally Harris tossed for 3X as much yds as Manziel yesterday. Seemed to have an extra burr in his heel or something. Looked like he was on a mission. So much wanting to blow Johnny up that it factors in. Teams and opposition QB's playing their best against the guy every week. That's hard to overcome.

 

[The Hound]

Yeah that's a good point but do we know for sure how DC found out. Just because DC twittered his reaction doesn't mean he heard about it in email or online or phone. Maybe I didn't read or listen closely enough. Any info saying that Jones didn't tell him?

 

[guymez]

One prominent CFL scout says Manziel is elite and one of the 10 best athletes ever to play here. I don’t know if it’s true but it’s not talent that’s holding him back. He’s only played two games.

100%...and watching games isnt even close to the same as taking reps. There is no way to shortcut this process...he needs to play and play a lot.

 

[Cloned]

Disagree. I think you are way short on the time frame. You need to factor in the reality of the way Manziel departed the NFL and that 1 season in the CFL isnt really proof of anything.

2 years would be enough though I think. Like I said, it’s not exactly the best crop of QBs down south right now and some teams could use the exposure and publicity.

 

[shoop]

I said within a year, meaning I think if he had a full successful year here, he’d be gone after another season (so basically 2 successful seasons here). I think after 2 years of success, both on and off the field, an NFL team would be willing to give him a shot.

Manziel does need to put in some time here, but I'm not sure if he needs as much as you think.

If he continues to grow and get better this season that will be important. A good solid year next year and he will get another shot down south.

 

[Cloned]

Manziel does need to put in some time here, but I'm not sure if he needs as much as you think.

If he continues to grow and get better this season that will be important. A good solid year next year and he will get another shot down south.

I’m already arguing a shorter time frame than what @guymez is suggesting. I do think 2 years is probably fair though. 1 year isn’t really enough to convince NFL teams.

 

[guymez]

Manziel does need to put in some time here, but I'm not sure if he needs as much as you think.

If he continues to grow and get better this season that will be important. A good solid year next year and he will get another shot down south.

I agree...I think its an absolute minimum of 2 years in the CFL. Successful seasons I might add and that will likely take more than 2 years.

 

[Cloned]

I agree...I think its an absolute minimum of 2 years in the CFL. Successful seasons I might add and that will likely take more than 2 years.

Are you quoting the right post because I’m fairly sure @shoop is arguing for a shorter timeframe than either of us.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Thanks, I don't have a twitter account so I'm not up on that unless it gets mentioned elsewhere online or on the news. Even in the CFL game yesterday they did not go into that much detail.

So you're right, and Jones should have possibly addressed him personally imo. My take though from the interview of Jones (Jones says this) is that he met with DC every week last year and wasn't doing that anymore as people need to mature. He also stated that DC would know the score, would come as no surprize, so that whatever it is according to Jones its already something that has been talked about. Maybe Jones sensed that a one on one just wouldn't be amicable. Or that he didn't want to further state whatever wounds were there. Its not always the best to have an exit meeting. Not in all circumstance. Sometimes just do it clean.

We know that DC would be difficult to coach. Not impossible in my view, just difficult.

Difference between Jones and Maas is Maas freaks right out at you and immediately and then the message is lets move on. My take with Jones is he takes numbers and has more difficulty with forgiving. Just a sense really, I can't substantiate the comment.

 

[Cloned]

Difference between Jones and Maas is Maas freaks right out at you and immediately and then the message is lets move on. My take with Jones is he takes numbers and has more difficulty with forgiving. Just a sense really, I can't substantiate the comment.

Is that why Maas hasn’t fired McDiarmid (his special teams coordinator) yet?