Elks: Edmonton Eskimo Thread: 2018 Edition

[Drivesaitl]

Wow, Congrats to Ricky Ray. Four Grey Cups, What a great QB.

Yeah, I'll do it. Credit. Nice career, and this could be the topping on the cake. He did get a lot of help yesterday. I did think the commentators were right that for most of the first half he was too conservative and considering his accuracy he should challenge the Stamps downfield more. When he did that, he had success in the game.

But I like Reilly more..

 

[Drivesaitl]

Exactly, not enough credit going to Ray who played a masterful game with 300 yards passing . He made very few mistakes on the day. Bo throws for 387 yards on a frozen field. I thought both QB's put on great show. I wish I had a tenth of the athletic talent that they do.

Too often on the threads we hear this "nah-nah-nah-nah-nah" instead of kudos to all the players who put on a great display despite the weather conditions. A 100 yard catch and run touchdown in a snow storm where you couldn't even see the yard markers is one hell of a feat. Most people couldn't catch a 5 yard pass at the height of summer.

The grey cups are infinitely more entertaining than the super-bores but I guess the NFL will always be the big draw. Anyway let's hope that this victory puts some more fans in the stands in TO. You couldn't have asked these guys for more.

The first half was poor execution by both squads and not much of a GC at that point. A lot of two and outs. Argos had 120yds offense at the half and 100 of them were on the one play, which was a great pass, but, not sustained offense.

The teams did pick it up in the 2nd half.

When you contrast this game with the 96 GC I talk about a lot both of those teams executed exceedingly well, and better than the teams played yesterday.

 

[SullivanT]

The cover photo for the Stampeders preseason playbook

 

[Kyle McMahon]

I disagree that Calgary's strategy was poor. It was entirely reasonable to continue towards the endzone to try and win the game. I don't fault the Calgary coaches for that. This comes down entirely to a bonehead decision by BLM to throw a ball into double coverage. He should have either checked down or just tossed it away. Protecting the football is paramount in that situation. It's almost unbelievable that a QB who seldom makes poor decisions with the ball or commits turnovers chose precisely the worst moment possible to heave one up for grabs like that. That's the type of stuff we've seen out of the Kevin Glenn's of the world over the years. I'm sure Dave Dickenson is as stunned as the rest of us at that decision by his QB.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Stamps are the most underachieving franchise in the CFL

reminds on their teams from the 90s with the Flutie/Garcia tandem...they only managed 2 Grey Cup despite on the talent and dominance

heck, no QB in Stamps history and 2 Grey Cup as a starting QB with that franchise

 

[Stoneman89]

It was a dumb decision by BLM, and an incredibly poor pass. If you're committed to throwing that thing even after you see the coverage, it has to be put in a spot where either the receiver has the only chance to get it, or it goes out of bounds, and you live to fight another down. And if he thought he'd throw a jump ball, then he completely disrespected the Argos dbacks and he paid the ultimate price.

 

[Stoneman89]

Rank the following plays in terms of worst overall play, accounting for magnitude of impact, the importance of the game, etc.:

Maas' FG call
Kavis Reed too many men against Montreal in the GC
Dickenson/BLM calling/throwing a pass play into double coverage while already in FG range

I'll say this for BLM. He's not a terrible QB obviously, but the advantages he's enjoyed since playing for the Stamps are unrivaled in this league. He has the best of everything. Best Oline to protect him. always had a superior running game, whether it's Cornish, Messam or Finch. Always had a nice set of receivers. And a top notch defence and special teams to get him the ball. Yesterday, he could have had a game of solitaire back there on numerous occasions. When I think of the times Reilly gets smashed or has to run for his life and still makes plays, there is no comparison. For BLM to only have one cup at this stage speaks to his own lack of finish. He admitted as much after the game, saying the last 2 years he wanted the ball in his hands at the crucial moment near the end of the game. Well, he got what he wanted and he pooped the bed both times.

 

[guymez]

Rank the following plays in terms of worst overall play, accounting for magnitude of impact, the importance of the game, etc.:

Maas' FG call
Kavis Reed too many men against Montreal in the GC
Dickenson/BLM calling/throwing a pass play into double coverage while already in FG range

The Maas field goal is at the top IMO because it implies a lack of understanding about the situation. Its been beaten to death already anyway but what Maas did was indefensible.
The Stamps play is not on Dickenson...its on BLM He locked in on a receiver which allowed the safety to read the play. BLM is entirely to blame on that play. That ball should not have been thrown.
As an Eskimo fan it was interesting to see him channel his inner Kevin Glenn on that play. Brought a smile to my face.

 

[guymez]

No, as bad as it was, the Maas play was worse. Calgary was going for the win on one play. Maas needed several of the following plays to go right to win.

It was way worse. I get that some Eskimo fans want to feel better about what Maas did but it was IMO the stupidest decision I have ever seen a head coach make. The Calgary players were rightfully laughing (at the Maas decison) in interviews after the game. I am sure the Calgary coaches had a good laugh over a few beers later that night. Hell I would have been laughing my ass off at Maas too if I wasnt an Eskimo fan .
That made the Stamps choke job in the GC all the more enjoyable.

It also made the Maas decision a little more palatable. No much more though.

 

[oXo Cube]

There was a functional upside to the decision to throw for the end zone, greedy as it was.

There was no reason for Maas to try a field goal in the position he was in. None.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I disagree that Calgary's strategy was poor. It was entirely reasonable to continue towards the endzone to try and win the game. I don't fault the Calgary coaches for that. This comes down entirely to a bonehead decision by BLM to throw a ball into double coverage. He should have either checked down or just tossed it away. Protecting the football is paramount in that situation. It's almost unbelievable that a QB who seldom makes poor decisions with the ball or commits turnovers chose precisely the worst moment possible to heave one up for grabs like that. That's the type of stuff we've seen out of the Kevin Glenn's of the world over the years. I'm sure Dave Dickenson is as stunned as the rest of us at that decision by his QB.

Bobo threw 3 picks in the Grey Cup just last season. He seems to have that junk in his game in big ones.

Stunned? Also disappointed I'm sure. That was as you say a brutal decision that can't be made at that stage of the game. Theres 20 secs left on the clock and you got a down after that to try for the W. You don't force that pass in the endzone on a 33% ball. I mean realistically it wasn't even a 50/50.

Bo, and a Stamps team that figured again they were unbeatable one would think would have some confidence taking the game into OT. Which was a better chance than that pass was..

 

[MoneyGuy]

Feels so good to see Messam, Singleton, and the Stamps lose. Messam was showboating big last week and jawing the Esks right in front of our bench. Classless puke. Some of his actions in that game will end up on the Eskimos wall.

Smart clubs realize you don't give your opponents extra ammunition.

lol as well at Messams halftime comments to Sara Orlesky today

"My contribution is huge, just huge, when you can get 50yds in a half in a GC that's a large part of everything" (what kind of asshat pats himself in the back like that in the context of a team sport?)

Follows it up with 15 yds in the second half and dropping two balls including a critical ball late forcing the Stamps to punt just prior to the game winning Argos FG drive.

Any words from clutch huge Messam now/

Messam has the perfect inflated ego for the Stamps club. lots of air being let of flat tires now.

There is the reason Messam has been punted by previous teams.

 

[MoneyGuy]

Tell me more, Replacement. You're not fooling anyone.

And yeah, glad the Stamps lost, but to blame this on BLV or calling him a choke artist is nonsense.

1. A poor play call by Dickenson on Ottawa's 1 yard line last year lead to the game going to overtime (and eventual loss)
2. A 109 yard fumble with 4 minutes left lead to their loss today. They could easily have been up 11 with under 4 minutes left.

It's sport, and sometimes the best team doesn't always win. The circumstances surrounding the past 2 Grey Cup losses can't be pinned on him. He's one of the most winning QBs in the league and here you are throwing shade by being a contrarian (as usual).

He had me fooled. Welcome back, Rep, missed ya. Anyway, I'm still smiling some 20 hours after that epic collapse. Yeah, that bonehead call by Maas maynhave cost us a championship except for the likelihood that we probably still wouldn't have won the western final 50-50 at best, likely less.

 

[guymez]

He had me fooled. Welcome back, Rep, missed ya. Anyway, I'm still smiling some 20 hours after that epic collapse. Yeah, that bonehead call by Maas maynhave cost us a championship except for the likelihood that we probably still wouldn't have won the western final 50-50 at best, likely less.

What are you basing this on? This sounds a lot like Jason Maas figuring that the odds for winning were better if he makes a 1 possession game into a 2 possession game.

 

[Stoneman89]

Tell me more, Replacement. You're not fooling anyone.

And yeah, glad the Stamps lost, but to blame this on BLV or calling him a choke artist is nonsense.

1. A poor play call by Dickenson on Ottawa's 1 yard line last year lead to the game going to overtime (and eventual loss)
2. A 109 yard fumble with 4 minutes left lead to their loss today. They could easily have been up 11 with under 4 minutes left.

It's sport, and sometimes the best team doesn't always win. The circumstances surrounding the past 2 Grey Cup losses can't be pinned on him. He's one of the most winning QBs in the league and here you are throwing shade by being a contrarian (as usual).

He's Replacement? That's funny. Nice try though.

 

[MoneyGuy]

What are you basing this on? This sounds a lot like Jason Maas figuring that the odds for winning were better if he makes a 1 possession game into a 2 possession game.

It's nothing like that. If we had scored the TD (far from a certainty) then we go either for the single point and Calgary would have had an opportunity to win it or we go to overtime. We may have gone for the two-point concert, with no guarantee of success. I just think that our chances of winning were less than 50-50 however you look at it. I'm just playing the odds, which is what Maas should have done. If he had then we might be celebrating a title right now.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

It was way worse. I get that some Eskimo fans want to feel better about what Maas did but it was IMO the stupidest decision I have ever seen a head coach make. The Calgary players were rightfully laughing (at the Maas decison) in interviews after the game. I am sure the Calgary coaches had a good laugh over a few beers later that night. Hell I would have been laughing my ass off at Maas too if I wasnt an Eskimo fan .
That made the Stamps choke job in the GC all the more enjoyable.

It also made the Maas decision a little more palatable. No much more though.

They might of won the GC if they spent that time preparing their team.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

He's Replacement? That's funny. Nice try though.

Pretty sure he already confirmed he's replacement.

 

[guymez]

It's nothing like that. If we had scored the TD (far from a certainty) then we go either for the single point and Calgary would have had an opportunity to win it or we go to overtime. We may have gone for the two-point concert, with no guarantee of success. I just think that our chances of winning were less than 50-50 however you look at it. I'm just playing the odds, which is what Maas should have done. If he had then we might be celebrating a title right now.

There is never a guarantee of success with any play. I also have no idea how you managed to come up with those odds. This isnt 50-50 at all.

The point (and I think you would agree with this) is to provide your team with the best odds to win. When its a 1 possession game (and the MOP has the ball with less than 2 minutes to play) the best odds to win involves keeping the ball in Reillys hands and providing the best opportunity to secure the win.
Taking the ball out of Reillys hands and giving the ball back to BLM and hoping the he doesnt run out the clock and/or the defence can stop him with enough time left and that there isnt too much yardage to make up (with very little time left) is fundamentally dumb. Its deciding to go with the lowest percentage strategy to win the game.
Maas in his infinite wisdom decided to reduce his teams odds of winning by kicking a field goal and forcing a 2nd possession. This (decision) effectively meant that there were many more factors against the team succeeding.
Thats so obvious...surely you can see that?
I think I understand what Maas was thinking but there wasnt enough time left...it was the amount of time that was the main factor here. His thinking only makes sense if there is plenty of game time left...there wasnt.

 

[guymez]

They might of won the GC if they spent that time preparing their team.

I think you are missing the point here. Unless of course you were trying to make a joke in which case I agree.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I think you are missing the point here. Unless of course you were trying to make a joke in which case I agree.

Forgot this

 

[rboomercat90]

What are you basing this on? This sounds a lot like Jason Maas figuring that the odds for winning were better if he makes a 1 possession game into a 2 possession game.

This is the best description of what Maas did that I’ve seen so far.

 

[SomeDudeOTI]

Nice the see Ray get another.

Still get mad every time I think about the FG... even if we tried and failed and turned it over on downs, we would've had a better chance of winning than taking the FG. Grrrrrrrrr

 

[MoontoScott]

Nice the see Ray get another.

Still get mad every time I think about the FG... even if we tried and failed and turned it over on downs, we would've had a better chance of winning than taking the FG. Grrrrrrrrr

It's unfortunate that a call like that defines a career but it might end that way for Mr. Maas.

When EE fans look back at Higgins they always talk about his call in the Western final even though (IMHO) it didn't rank with what happened a few weeks ago. Like you, when I watched TO holding the cup I also couldn't help imagining Reilly holding that cup with the EE players dancing around him. The Esks are more talented than the Argos and would have had a shot at beating them.

It will be interesting to see how this effects players come next training camp. I also wonder what effect it will have on the usual high number of free agents that we see every CFL off season. If I am a player looking for a new home it has to be on mind when I decide where I am going. The temper tantrums and lack of ability to calculate probabilities would have to be of concern. I don't think Maas is a bad guy in life but there are mistakes and then there are mistakes. Most unfortunate.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's unfortunate that a call like that defines a career but it might end that way for Mr. Maas.

When EE fans look back at Higgins they always talk about his call in the Western final even though (IMHO) it didn't rank with what happened a few weeks ago. Like you, when I watched TO holding the cup I also couldn't help imagining Reilly holding that cup with the EE players dancing around him. The Esks are more talented than the Argos and would have had a shot at beating them.

It will be interesting to see how this effects players come next training camp. I also wonder what effect it will have on the usual high number of free agents that we see every CFL off season. If I am a player looking for a new home it has to be on mind when I decide where I am going. The temper tantrums and lack of ability to calculate probabilities would have to be of concern. I don't think Maas is a bad guy in life but there are mistakes and then there are mistakes. Most unfortunate.

It hurts a lot because I thought it would occur and envisioned all of it. Everything to handing Sherritt the cup. The Esks, not the Argos, were the team that battled through ultimate hardship through extensive injuries of a like that no other team had ever faced. That some players on this club battled so hard, and to exhaustion to keep this dream alive is riveting. Due to those impeccable efforts the team reversed fortunes, continued to win, and went all the way to one play from the GC. In which they would be playing an easier opponent than 3 other opponents in the West. Not to take apart the Argos but I can't imagine that Reilly and the Esks team would have blown this like Calgary after all they had persevered through.

The personnel on this club were mostly winners, champions, they deserved more than what they got out of the season. The worst thing is if the org stands by the coach (as they have) and takes the position that kicking the FG was a defensible decision (which they have) then it removes accountability from the coaching decision making. Its not that a mistake was made. Its that we have a headcoach capable of making such an egregious error in logic at the worst possible time that cost the team and that granting him continuance means he's likely to screw up again.

That said its not much more comforting in Calgary having BLM at QB in charge of reads making that kind of onfield decision. But its worse here. Our best player, the league MOP, wasn't even granted opportunity to throw that endzone ball. It was taken away from him, by his own coach.