Elks: Edmonton Elks Part 2

[Cagey B]

It's more or less just BS from BS.

I very much doubt either one of them will come clear to the fans about this.

My own speculation is that the players who were cut didn't get along/work well with Elizondo. Hence my opinion that maybe he's not the easiest coach to work with.

(I will say that if Diggs was cut because of his impending bonus and the Elks decided to significantly worsen their team because of it, that's such a loser move).

It seems Diggs was out performed and became 2nd string team - but I'd agree the bonus was a huge factor in releasing him. He wont be out of work long.

I dont share the same thoughts on Elizondo from what I recall when he was hired was how players liked him when he was OC with Ottawa.

 

[Dust]

Not an fan of the team per se but I see plenty of tickets in affordable price ranges, so not sure what the earlier comments of 40-60$ were all about. Looks like cheap corner tickets at $17 and upper deck midfield seats for $28. That's pretty affordable. Hope to see the team get lots of fans out to the game. The product on the field is probably not going to be as good this year after a year layoff, but I'm just excited to get out to some games and happy that the league is back up and going.

 

[Cloned]

It seems Diggs was out performed and became 2nd string team - but I'd agree the bonus was a huge factor in releasing him. He wont be out of work long.

I dont share the same thoughts on Elizondo from what I recall when he was hired was how players liked him when he was OC with Ottawa.

Just seems like a bad move to cut a decent player in a position you barely have any depth in to begin with. I understand there are real world financial considerations but it’s not the type of move this organization used to make when they were actually consistently good. They used to stockpile quality players at every position.

I’ll be happy to eat crow about all this but right now it looks bleak.

 

[Cagey B]

Esks released: (among others )
LB Diggs
DE Lemon
OL Thaddeus Coleman
REC Kenny Shaw
DB Caleb Ham
DB Jordan Beaulieu


Interesting all three RB's still remain ( Wilder, Williams and Fletcher ( who i've read is quite impressive)

 

[Cagey B]

Just seems like a bad move to cut a decent player in a position you barely have any depth in to begin with. I understand there are real world financial considerations but it’s not the type of move this organization used to make when they were actually consistently good.

I’ll be happy to eat crow about all this but right now it looks bleak.

how the heck does it look bleak?? because a couple of "named" players got cut? I don't get this.

Its first cutdown week. Guess I dont share the same "the sky is falling" as others

 

[Cagey B]

Not an fan of the team per se but I see plenty of tickets in affordable price ranges, so not sure what the earlier comments of 40-60$ were all about. Looks like cheap corner tickets at $17 and upper deck midfield seats for $28. That's pretty affordable. Hope to see the team get lots of fans out to the game. The product on the field is probably not going to be as good this year after a year layoff, but I'm just excited to get out to some games and happy that the league is back up and going.

no I expect the product on the field to be bad for at least 4 weeks for every team

 

[Cloned]

how the heck does it look bleak?? because a couple of "named" players got cut? I don't get this.

Its first cutdown week. Guess I dont share the same "the sky is falling" as others

It looks bleak because they’re relying on two CFL rookies in starting linebacker positions, a rookie CFL head coach who is cutting multiple players because of some vague reason, and some lingering questions about the premiere positions on the team (QB mainly).

 

[PositiveCashFlow]

And Coleman and Shaw, going to be a lot of new faces starting

 

[Cagey B]

It looks bleak because they’re relying on two CFL rookies in starting linebacker positions, a rookie CFL head coach who is cutting multiple players because of some vague reason, and some lingering questions about the premiere positions on the team (QB mainly).

wut?

Rookie LB's I'll give you but also Diggs was a starting rookie LB and that worked out well. Besides we might bring in another LB depending on others cuts - we do have OL Dennis to let rot or trade...

Not every person cut is because of "culture" So far I count 3.

We have issues with QB now? lol....

 

[bellagiobob]

On most teams the GM still has the final say, unless the coach is Bill Belichick or someone like that.

My issue is that if you're having to cut this many players because they don't "fit the culture," maybe there's something wrong with the culture you're trying to build.

We don’t know for sure, but I’ve always been under the impression that the GM brings in the players, and for the most part the coach picks the roster. Don’t think any coach would work in an environment where the GM tells him who to play.

 

[bellagiobob]

how the heck does it look bleak?? because a couple of "named" players got cut? I don't get this.

Its first cutdown week. Guess I dont share the same "the sky is falling" as others

It was the same with the Oilers. Basically a day after TB won the cup some people were already giving up on next season because we hadn’t completely changed the roster overnight. . I’m not a big BS fan, but will keep the pitchforks away till I actually see the team play.

 

[Cagey B]

We don’t know for sure, but I’ve always been under the impression that the GM brings in the players, and for the most part the coach picks the roster. Don’t think any coach would work in an environment where the GM tells him who to play.

HC designs how he wants his team to play ( with conversations with assistants) He presents that idealism to the GM and the GM goes out to find those players with chatter with the HC. Thats how I see it. Course the GM and HC have to be on the same page.

There was a time where the GM kept saying you have to play... its escaping my mind which GM and team that was.

 

[Cagey B]

It was the same with the Oilers. Basically a day after TB won the cup some people were already giving up on next season because we hadn’t completely changed the roster overnight. . I’m not a big BS fan, but will keep the pitchforks away till I actually see the team play.

Same - I'm no BS fan, I do like JE... I'm taking a wait and see approach... I'll just be happy to actually see some football FINALLY... err I better knock on wood still :p

 

[Drivesaitl]

We don't know what it is exactly they mean though. You assume it's the penalty issue but it could be (and likely is) something else entirely. I mean, is a veteran WR like Kenny Stafford (who was cut because he didn't "fit the culture") really the guy who strikes you as being undisciplined with taking penalties, and that being the reason why he didn't fit the culture? How many penalties would a WR take anyway? Maybe the odd offside call?

And yeah, cutting 3 players all because they didn't fit the culture is a red flag. Either your initial player scouting/interviewing has a major flaw in it having signed those players in the first place, or you're being too strict/close-minded with what you're trying to build, or it's an excuse to release the player for other reasons (e.g. he's not getting along with the coach).

I don't buy it. Elks management have not produced the track record nor do they have the reputation beforehand worthy of being given the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah, nothing like seeing Stafford beat coverage on guys like Grimes, beating him like a rented mule, and then him being cut and the guy with the right culture (losing) remaining. Grimes is small, and now he's not fast, and hes' not that strong anymore either. Guy punched over his weight for a couple years now can't even play anymore, but specifically brought back, and still here. Go figure.

Whenever we start hearing about positive culture, right attitude things we know people like Eakins are in charge and decision are not necessarily being made on bpa.

I mean I was always told Coehoorn had the right attitude, sucked as a receiver in every way. Ironically it draws me back to the "Eskimos way" and I say ironic because its no longer the Eskimos in anycase. Maybe we should like players that are in heat and rutting...I wouldn't mind some of that fire in the lineup.

i got off track there..

 

[Drivesaitl]

wut?

Rookie LB's I'll give you but also Diggs was a starting rookie LB and that worked out well. Besides we might bring in another LB depending on others cuts - we do have OL Dennis to let rot or trade...

Not every person cut is because of "culture" So far I count 3.

We have issues with QB now? lol....

Issues in that we had one starting QB for years that could play. doofuses like Kilgore playing clipboard roles for no reason. I mean at least have somebody valid as a back up. In the CFL its good to have multiple QB's that can play to throw different wrinkles at D schemes. I guess our depth chart at QB is better this season anyway.

 

[bellagiobob]

Yeah, nothing like seeing Stafford beat coverage on guys like Grimes, beating him like a rented mule, and then him being cut and the guy with the right culture (losing) remaining. Grimes is small, and now he's not fast, and hes' not that strong anymore either. Guy punched over his weight for a couple years now can't even play anymore, but specifically brought back, and still here. Go figure.

Whenever we start hearing about positive culture, right attitude things we know people like Eakins are in charge and decision are not necessarily being made on bpa.

I mean I was always told Coehoorn had the right attitude, sucked as a receiver in every way. Ironically it draws me back to the "Eskimos way" and I say ironic because its no longer the Eskimos in anycase. Maybe we should like players that are in heat and rutting...I wouldn't mind some of that fire in the lineup.

i got off track there..

Stafford was a long shot to make the team. If it was one of the main guys like Walker, etc I’d be more concerned, but it’s a guy that was really just filling a TC spot.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Stafford was a long shot to make the team. If it was one of the main guys like Walker, etc I’d be more concerned, but it’s a guy that was really just filling a TC spot.

Wasn't really my point. Nothing much matters as far as Stafford, but Grimes is flat out a weak link and he was brought back, and still here, for some strange reason. Grimes hasn't been a legit defender for years. He's been a targeted one. With his patented drop its almost a guaranteed first down if nobody else makes the tackle.

 

[Stoneman89]

There were some issues with Diggs last year--maybe that was behind the story here.

I think this has a lot to do with it. A me first kind of hothead, who fit in well under Jason Maas philosophy of "letting them loose no matter what" regarding getting stupid penalties. Reminded me of a "me first" kind of selfish player, that I thought might have a chance to mature and grow out of it. Guess that likely didn't happen.

 

[Stoneman89]

Stafford was a long shot to make the team. If it was one of the main guys like Walker, etc I’d be more concerned, but it’s a guy that was really just filling a TC spot.

I was surprised they even brought Stafford back, considering they got rid of him twice already. Hopefully 3rd times the charm.

 

[bellagiobob]

Wasn't really my point. Nothing much matters as far as Stafford, but Grimes is flat out a weak link and he was brought back, and still here, for some strange reason. Grimes hasn't been a legit defender for years. He's been a targeted one. With his patented drop its almost a guaranteed first down if nobody else makes the tackle.

He hasn’t been great since he left here. But our secondary has been so bad for so long, that he might be an upgrade. Time will tell. He’s not a long term solution, that’s for sure.

 

[Cloned]

wut?

Rookie LB's I'll give you but also Diggs was a starting rookie LB and that worked out well. Besides we might bring in another LB depending on others cuts - we do have OL Dennis to let rot or trade...

Not every person cut is because of "culture" So far I count 3.

We have issues with QB now? lol....

I’ll eat crow if it’s deserved. As of now I think there is legitimate reason to be concerned about the GM, the coach and the roster.

And yeah, there are concerns with Harris.

 

[bellagiobob]

I think this has a lot to do with it. A me first kind of hothead, who fit in well under Jason Maas philosophy of "letting them loose no matter what" regarding getting stupid penalties. Reminded me of a "me first" kind of selfish player, that I thought might have a chance to mature and grow out of it. Guess that likely didn't happen.

A bit surprised people are upset at cultural change, with the absolute shitshow and zero accountability we had under Maas. The inmates have been running the asylum far too long.

 

[bellagiobob]

I’ll eat crow if it’s deserved. As of now I think there is legitimate reason to be concerned about the GM, the coach and the roster.

And yeah, there are concerns with Harris.

So other than the GM, coach and roster you’re good?

 

[Stoneman89]

It's more or less just BS from BS.

I very much doubt either one of them will come clear to the fans about this.

My own speculation is that the players who were cut didn't get along/work well with Elizondo. Hence my opinion that maybe he's not the easiest coach to work with.

(I will say that if Diggs was cut because of his impending bonus and the Elks decided to significantly worsen their team because of it, that's such a loser move).

Think you're over-reacting again. Stafford's been moved from the team twice already, not because of discipline, but because they had others they thought were better. Same thing here with all the talent at that position. He was probably brought in to drive competition.
Same with Lemon. The writing was on the wall for him a week or so again, when the coach said he was behind the 8 ball with Betts moving into the starter spot due to better consistency. And it all became a numbers game too.
Diggs has a short history of being one of "Mass' undisciplined guys", that never seemed to suffer the consequences from it, and the team suffered for it. Had some talent, but certainly not enough to make his behavior go unnoticed. My best guess is that he didn't learn the lessons from 2 years ago.

 

[MoontoScott]

I think this has a lot to do with it. A me first kind of hothead, who fit in well under Jason Maas philosophy of "letting them loose no matter what" regarding getting stupid penalties. Reminded me of a "me first" kind of selfish player, that I thought might have a chance to mature and grow out of it. Guess that likely didn't happen.

Good point- the EE have been undisciplined and penalty plagued for the last 4 years under Maas and it was time to set sail in a different direction. You have to be contained and disciplined to win in any sport and in a violent sport like football its easy to lose your cool. Time for a change.