Elks: Edmonton Elks Part 2

Stoneman89

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Feb 8, 2008
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Just seems like a bad move to cut a decent player in a position you barely have any depth in to begin with. I understand there are real world financial considerations but it’s not the type of move this organization used to make when they were actually consistently good. They used to stockpile quality players at every position.

I’ll be happy to eat crow about all this but right now it looks bleak.

Yes, that's true. But what you're forgetting is back in the day, there was no salary cap, the Eskimos were the top grossing team in the league by far, and there was no pandemic that we're just coming out of.
 

Stoneman89

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Feb 8, 2008
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I’ll eat crow if it’s deserved. As of now I think there is legitimate reason to be concerned about the GM, the coach and the roster.

And yeah, there are concerns with Harris.
I haven't heard anything regarding Harris. What's going on there?
 
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MoontoScott

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Jun 2, 2012
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Apart from Digger none of the cuts surprised me. Coleman is 36 and has lots of miles on him--ditto for Lemon and the thing is that the offensive and defensive lines for the EE are areas of relative strength with a lot of good younger players.

I thought this was the year that Shaw might have stepped up into one of the receiver spots but again this is an area where the EE are well stocked.

I don't think Ham had been impressive as a DB.
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
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Yes, that's true. But what you're forgetting is back in the day, there was no salary cap, the Eskimos were the top grossing team in the league by far, and there was no pandemic that we're just coming out of.
The Stamps still stockpile quality players at every position.
 

Cloned

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I haven't heard anything regarding Harris. What's going on there?
Nothing new, just the same concerns as before. Inconsistency, inability to win big games, lack of toughness, etc. And he’s two years older now.
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
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Think you're over-reacting again. Stafford's been moved from the team twice already, not because of discipline, but because they had others they thought were better. Same thing here with all the talent at that position. He was probably brought in to drive competition.
Same with Lemon. The writing was on the wall for him a week or so again, when the coach said he was behind the 8 ball with Betts moving into the starter spot due to better consistency. And it all became a numbers game too.
Diggs has a short history of being one of "Mass' undisciplined guys", that never seemed to suffer the consequences from it, and the team suffered for it. Had some talent, but certainly not enough to make his behavior go unnoticed. My best guess is that he didn't learn the lessons from 2 years ago.
When you cut three players because of the same vague reason, it either speaks to poor scouting/due diligence in the signing process, or some other reason such as conflict/irreconcilable differences with the coach. Either way it’s strange and bad optics.
 

Tobias Kahun

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Oct 3, 2017
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When you cut three players because of the same vague reason, it either speaks to poor scouting/due diligence in the signing process, or some other reason such as conflict/irreconcilable differences with the coach. Either way it’s strange and bad optics.
Maybe they just got cut cause they were out performed?

You are aware theres a new HC, who isn't a hot head like that idiot Maas.

Coaches all the time come into a situation and get rid of players they dont want, this isn't an exclusive thing to the eskimos.
 
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Cloned

Begging for Bega
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Maybe they just got cut cause they were out performed?

You are aware theres a new HC, who isn't a hot head like that idiot Maas.

Coaches all the time come into a situation and get rid of players they dont want, this isn't an exclusive thing to the eskimos.
The reason cited publicly in the press releases was specifically “they didn’t fit the culture.”

I don’t think they would want to create a controversy where there was none if it was simply a matter of being outplayed.
 

Tobias Kahun

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The reason cited publicly in the press releases was specifically “they didn’t fit the culture.”

I don’t think they would want to create a controversy where there was none if it was simply a matter of being outplayed.
Okay.

Previously the culture of the EE was a problem, with how undisciplined they are, hard to fault the new coach for trying to instill a proper culture.
 
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Cloned

Begging for Bega
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Okay.

Previously the culture of the EE was a problem, with how undisciplined they are, hard to fault the new coach for trying to instill a proper culture.
I went through this all already with Cagey B a few posts ago.
 

Tobias Kahun

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I went through this all already with Cagey B a few posts ago.
I see that.

You seem to be the only one making a big deal out of this.

I guess we'll find out if we have enough talent at these positions when the season starts.
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
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I see that.

You seem to be the only one making a big deal out of this.

I guess we'll find out if we have enough talent at these positions when the season starts.
Like I said I’ll be happy to eat crow if it’s deserved.
 

Drivesaitl

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Oct 8, 2017
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Okay.

Previously the culture of the EE was a problem, with how undisciplined they are, hard to fault the new coach for trying to instill a proper culture.

Apparently the culture of the Eskimos was to have a weak ass secondary for years that would bend bend bend, special teams that would lose almost any game, and a complete absence of any returners.

Speed? Skill? whats that?

The org has wanted a bunch of yes men around for sometime. Thats also been part of the problem and WHY Jason Maas was the coach in the first place. In an org, like the esks it doesn't really matter how acerbic or angry somebody might be, provided its not ever directed at the team or org itself. So that strangely a lot of yes organizations are despicable places to work.

This is an org that hired Jason Maas and Kavis Reed to be headcoaches in the same decade. An org that doesn't really learn. Both of these were hotheads.
 

MoontoScott

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Jun 2, 2012
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Apparently the culture of the Eskimos was to have a weak ass secondary for years that would bend bend bend, special teams that would lose almost any game, and a complete absence of any returners.

Speed? Skill? whats that?

The org has wanted a bunch of yes men around for sometime. Thats also been part of the problem and WHY Jason Maas was the coach in the first place. In an org, like the esks it doesn't really matter how acerbic or angry somebody might be, provided its not ever directed at the team or org itself. So that strangely a lot of yes organizations are despicable places to work.

This is an org that hired Jason Maas and Kavis Reed to be headcoaches in the same decade. An org that doesn't really learn. Both of these were hotheads.

They were both hot heads but more significantly they just weren't head coaching material. Both stayed on at least one year longer than they should have.
 

Stoneman89

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Nothing new, just the same concerns as before. Inconsistency, inability to win big games, lack of toughness, etc. And he’s two years older now.
Oh, okay. I thought it was something along the line of your earlier thoughts about the organizations treating players badly by cutting them, for example.
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
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Oh, okay. I thought it was something along the line of your earlier thoughts about the organizations treating players badly by cutting them, for example.
My issue isn’t in treating players badly, it’s in cutting players (some are over the hill vets, others are actually talented and can still play well) for vague reasons not necessarily related to performance on the field. It’s questionable asset management on top of the bad optics.
 

Stoneman89

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Feb 8, 2008
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The reason cited publicly in the press releases was specifically “they didn’t fit the culture.”

I don’t think they would want to create a controversy where there was none if it was simply a matter of being outplayed.
Who cares what they say is the reason. Would you feel better if they used the time honored cliche, "We decided to go in a different direction"? Guys get cut/traded all the time for various reasons, and the coaching staff doesn't owe us all the little details. The rest of us are trying to provide some potential plausible reasons.

Two of those guys mentioned were brought in for competition, and they were found wanting at the end of the day. The other one had some extra money coming in a cash strapped season, in a cash strapped year, and he also had some attitude baggage from an earlier regime.

Jason Maas isn't here anymore, thank God.
 
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Cloned

Begging for Bega
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Who cares what they say is the reason. Would you feel better if they used the time honored cliche, "We decided to go in a different direction"?
If it actually is about building a culture, then it raises questions about the scouting and due diligence process of the organization that they signed the player in the first place. It also raises questions about what the culture is that you’re trying to build and whether it’s too strict or narrow minded, resulting in losing talented players because of it.

If it is an excuse to cut the player for other reasons, then it’s a bad look and makes the organization less attractive for future free agents. It also raises questions about what the actual reasons are and how the coach is working with his players.

Either way it raises questions. None of them good.
 

Stoneman89

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Feb 8, 2008
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If it actually is about building a culture, then it raises questions about the scouting and due diligence process of the organization that they signed the player in the first place. It also raises questions about what the culture is that you’re trying to build and whether it’s too strict or narrow minded, resulting in losing talented players because of it.

If it is an excuse to cut the player for other reasons, then it’s a bad look and makes the organization less attractive for future free agents. It also raises questions about what the actual reasons are and how the coach is working with his players.

Either way it raises questions. None of them good.
The culture is to keep the most talented players, the ones with the best attitude under the team first concept, and also fit everyone under the cap. Any other questions?
 
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rboomercat90

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Mar 24, 2013
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Forgive me guys as I don’t know any of the details but could the reason for the cuts be the condition these guys came to camp in? These players haven’t played football in 2 years. I was expecting some of them might not be in playing shape anymore.
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
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The culture is to keep the most talented players, the ones with the best attitude under the team first concept, and also fit everyone under the cap. Any other questions?
Like I said earlier, this management team does not have the track record nor reputation to accord them the benefit of the doubt. I’ll be happy to eat crow if I’m wrong though.
 

Cerebral

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Aug 4, 2003
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Calgary, Alberta
I see things quite differently from a lot in this thread. The fact that veterans like Diggs, Coleman, Lemon, and Stafford are getting cut means the new guys like Bierra, Betts, Nielsen, and Morgan must be showing really well in camp.

You need to cycle in new younger and cheaper talent in the CFL to be successful. The reality is that until Dexter McCoil got a shot to show his stuff, he was just an unproven rookie. I’m excited to see a potential trio of Morgan, Bierra, and Walker at linebacker, all through of whom are 26 or younger.

I have a lot more faith in Sunderland than some here and I’m glad we are building a younger, more athletic, and hopefully better disciplined team!
 

Stoneman89

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Feb 8, 2008
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I see things quite differently from a lot in this thread. The fact that veterans like Diggs, Coleman, Lemon, and Stafford are getting cut means the new guys like Bierra, Betts, Nielsen, and Morgan must be showing really well in camp.

You need to cycle in new younger and cheaper talent in the CFL to be successful. The reality is that until Dexter McCoil got a shot to show his stuff, he was just an unproven rookie. I’m excited to see a potential trio of Morgan, Bierra, and Walker at linebacker, all through of whom are 26 or younger.

I have a lot more faith in Sunderland than some here and I’m glad we are building a younger, more athletic, and hopefully better disciplined team!

Pretty sure that's been said by a few of us already, but yes, very true. They got beat out by better talent, who also happen to be younger.
 

MoontoScott

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Jun 2, 2012
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Pretty sure that's been said by a few of us already, but yes, very true. They got beat out by better talent, who also happen to be younger.

One of the reasons that Lemon was cut was to make room for the Canadian book ends of Betts and Boateng. That's 2 of the 7 Canadian starters that you must have-- so add in 3 Canadian O-linemen-- and 1 Canadian receiver plus a Canadian fullback and you have it covered. The 7 Canadian starters was a controversial hold over from the old players agreement. There was some suggestion that it was gone but it didn't happen.

With these numbers, you can start 3 import LB's and 5 import DB's including that import safety spot which has been a critical weak link for the team for at least 5 years. No doubt this numbers game figured into the club's thinking.
 
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