Proposal: EDM - CBJ

[GhostfaceWu]

even if thats true, which I dont necessarily agree with because the Blue Jackets are in transition, it doesnt mean we should just Give him to the oilers for their scraps., that works for the oilers sure but not for anyone else.

and if you really believe Anderson is that bad, why on earth would you even want him?

its that type of nonsensical circular logic that Oiler fans are famous for, DO BETTER

just because Treliving fell for it and traded James Neal for Lucic doesnt mean other teams are gonna do it too, in fact that should serve as a warning to others

I don't want him. Please let us add another soon to be over paid 3rd/4th liner to go with the likes of Chiasson.

 

[koteka]

Jesus, CBJ fans REALLY overvalue Josh Anderson. He's not worth Bouchard or Broberg, let alone Draisaitl.

This is why this forum is quite a joke, everybody overvalues their own players and nothing is ever realistic.

And you made that huge post and STILL didn't come up with a reasonable offer.

Actually I made a long post to show the Oilers are not a team the Jackets should trade with. I went through the Jackets needs and Oilers potential trade pieces to demonstrate this point.

That is why the first sentence was “Edmonton and the Jackets are not potential trade partners.” And the last paragraph was: “So I don’t think a trade is likely. But if the Oilers really want Josh, it is a trade that involves Drai. Or a third team who wants Bouchard and has a top forward to trade.”

 

[Viqsi]

You must have missed the last 18 years of a certain team in Foxboro.

Is this a Patriots reference? I don't really follow the NFL.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Is this a Patriots reference? I don't really follow the NFL.

Yes and Bill Belichick has run with the philosophy that is exactly what you are saying doesn't happen. Everyone and everything has a price. It infuriates fans at time when they have a perfectly good guy who did a good job and they decide to deal him away for a 2nd rd pick. Or when they constantly trade down in drafts or when they refuse to resign one of their own free agents who had a good year.

They have a price in $ and in value for each player on their team and even for each position. Not that they explicitly say the following but it seems to be the philosophy: Don't take a safety in the 1st rd, any OL can play guard so dont waste a lot of $ on one, a WR in the 3rd rd is just as likely to be good as one in the 1st.

One thing Belichick HAS explicitly said and has shown (again despite the hand wringing of local media and some fans whenever he does it is)- It's better to be a year early than a year late. So he'd rather trade/cut a guy who is still good, but if he thinks his play isn't quite = to his value on the cap or his value in a return.

Most GMs wouldn't have the stomach for this and you have to also have already built up trust from owner to get away with cutting a pro bowl safety 3 days before opening game, or trading away a pro bowl guard right before the season started. Perhaps it also wouldn't work in hockey. But it is a viable way to run things if you have a cold, calculating but smart guy doing it.

 

[TFHockey]

Actually I made a long post to show the Oilers are not a team the Jackets should trade with. I went through the Jackets needs and Oilers potential trade pieces to demonstrate this point.

That is why the first sentence was “Edmonton and the Jackets are not potential trade partners.” And the last paragraph was: “So I don’t think a trade is likely. But if the Oilers really want Josh, it is a trade that involves Drai. Or a third team who wants Bouchard and has a top forward to trade.”

I can't imagine a single hockey pundit or GM who would agree with you. That is a ridiculous valuation of your player. Absurd.

 

[Viqsi]

Yes and Bill Belichick has run with the philosophy that is exactly what you are saying doesn't happen. Everyone and everything has a price.

Ah. You seem to have missed my use of the word "objective" - "the 'everybody has an objective price' crowd." Or, those who subscribe to the theory that trade values are ultimately absolutes that could hypothetically be objectively measured and compared, based on the presumption of some kind of fluid market economy of players. Of course, such a thing would require that players and picks be fungible, and they most certainly are not, so measurement and comparison (while it definitely happens) is irretrievably locked into the world of subjectivity. They're the sorts of folks who would try to force trades using unneeded assets by arguing "you can just flip him afterward for what you really need".

What you're referring to is more about being aggressive and unsentimental in one's own evaluation of one's assets, which is a different thing entirely; it's a philosophy of how one approaches the barter and prepares for it, as opposed to failure to recognize that it's barter in the first place.

 

[King1s]

Actually I made a long post to show the Oilers are not a team the Jackets should trade with. I went through the Jackets needs and Oilers potential trade pieces to demonstrate this point.

That is why the first sentence was “Edmonton and the Jackets are not potential trade partners.” And the last paragraph was: “So I don’t think a trade is likely. But if the Oilers really want Josh, it is a trade that involves Drai. Or a third team who wants Bouchard and has a top forward to trade.”

Huh.

That is just stupid. He is not worth anything like that. Maybe a 3rd round pick or so.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Ah. You seem to have missed my use of the word "objective" - "the 'everybody has an objective price' crowd." Or, those who subscribe to the theory that trade values are ultimately absolutes that could hypothetically be objectively measured and compared, based on the presumption of some kind of fluid market economy of players. Of course, such a thing would require that players and picks be fungible, and they most certainly are not, so measurement and comparison (while it definitely happens) is irretrievably locked into the world of subjectivity. They're the sorts of folks who would try to force trades using unneeded assets by arguing "you can just flip him afterward for what you really need".

What you're referring to is more about being aggressive and unsentimental in one's own evaluation of one's assets, which is a different thing entirely; it's a philosophy of how one approaches the barter and prepares for it, as opposed to failure to recognize that it's barter in the first place.

I understand what you are saying and mostly agree. Ultimately a player's value on the market is the highest price that any 1 buyer will give. Thus while someone from EDM can say "Anderson is having a down year, so he's only worth Chiasson + a 4th" they are missing the point in that all it takes is 1 other team to offer more than that set the new market (whether that offer meets Columbus' internal value on the player is a different matter).

But then, the same exact thing can be stated with your subjective response to these offers. We have indeed seen players far better than Anderson go for these kind of "collection of meh" offers and while you personally would be aghast to think he could go for one.... with all due respect.... you ain't Jarmo.

Again w/ the Belichick analogy: If Jarmo thinks that this Anderson is closer to what he'll see going forward, and if he's not happy about the idea of having Anderson go to arbitration and making a min. of $2.12m (with who knows what as a top end amount if Anderson were to win arbitration)... then he may make the decision that a player of a similar level to "this" version of Anderson, at a cheaper $, plus another asset, maybe worth to make such a deal.

I wouldn't if I were him, and you clearly wouldn't. But offers like these happen with all teams and fanbases here, I'm sure even including those from Ohio.

Ultimately the price for him would be what I consider "high" because NHL GMs are infatuated with guys who can score and have physicality to their game. I get Columbus would rather just bet on Anderson being a 45-50 pt player and not a 25-35 pt player than to deal him right now. It's worth the gamble.

But it is a gamble.

 

[Viqsi]

I understand what you are saying and mostly agree. Ultimately a player's value on the market is the highest price that any 1 buyer will give. Thus while someone from EDM can say "Anderson is having a down year, so he's only worth Chiasson + a 4th" they are missing the point in that all it takes is 1 other team to offer more than that set the new market (whether that offer meets Columbus' internal value on the player is a different matter).

But then, the same exact thing can be stated with your subjective response to these offers. We have indeed seen players far better than Anderson go for these kind of "collection of meh" offers and while you personally would be aghast to think he could go for one.... with all due respect.... you ain't Jarmo.

Again w/ the Belichick analogy: If Jarmo thinks that this Anderson is closer to what he'll see going forward, and if he's not happy about the idea of having Anderson go to arbitration and making a min. of $2.12m (with who knows what as a top end amount if Anderson were to win arbitration)... then he may make the decision that a player of a similar level to "this" version of Anderson, at a cheaper $, plus another asset, maybe worth to make such a deal.

I wouldn't if I were him, and you clearly wouldn't. But offers like these happen with all teams and fanbases here, I'm sure even including those from Ohio.

Ultimately the price for him would be what I consider "high" because NHL GMs are infatuated with guys who can score and have physicality to their game. I get Columbus would rather just bet on Anderson being a 45-50 pt player and not a 25-35 pt player than to deal him right now. It's worth the gamble.

But it is a gamble.

You get a cookie.

Although there is one element that I think you touched on but understated a tad. "Guys who can score and have physicality to their game" are indeed a little rare. And yet, it's even rarer to have guys like that that also have size (there's plenty of smaller guys who'll get down and dirty when needed), and also are fast skaters (the size/speed combo by itself is rare). Andy has gotten as far as he has because he's shown all four of those qualities, and that combo is shockingly hard to come by; it seems like usually those four attributes are a "pick any two or three" rather than getting all four. If he had historically lacked any one of those, perhaps some of these proposals wouldn't be as irksome. That he's shown all four means that a bounce-back makes him back into a valuable and rare kind of weapon. That's well worth holding out for. It's certainly still a gamble, but the potential payoff is perhaps a bit higher and harder to otherwise come by than folks realize.

EDIT: Forgot to mention - the reason why I in particular get so pushy about this is twofold. One is that the nature of the gamble is for higher-stakes than folks assume, as described above. The other is, as previously stated, that even after pointing that out, folks keep pushing. Repeatedly. For weeks. Enough to drive anyone insane.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

I understand what you are saying and mostly agree. Ultimately a player's value on the market is the highest price that any 1 buyer will give. Thus while someone from EDM can say "Anderson is having a down year, so he's only worth Chiasson + a 4th" they are missing the point in that all it takes is 1 other team to offer more than that set the new market (whether that offer meets Columbus' internal value on the player is a different matter).

But then, the same exact thing can be stated with your subjective response to these offers. We have indeed seen players far better than Anderson go for these kind of "collection of meh" offers and while you personally would be aghast to think he could go for one.... with all due respect.... you ain't Jarmo.

Again w/ the Belichick analogy: If Jarmo thinks that this Anderson is closer to what he'll see going forward, and if he's not happy about the idea of having Anderson go to arbitration and making a min. of $2.12m (with who knows what as a top end amount if Anderson were to win arbitration)... then he may make the decision that a player of a similar level to "this" version of Anderson, at a cheaper $, plus another asset, maybe worth to make such a deal.

I wouldn't if I were him, and you clearly wouldn't. But offers like these happen with all teams and fanbases here, I'm sure even including those from Ohio.

Ultimately the price for him would be what I consider "high" because NHL GMs are infatuated with guys who can score and have physicality to their game. I get Columbus would rather just bet on Anderson being a 45-50 pt player and not a 25-35 pt player than to deal him right now. It's worth the gamble.

But it is a gamble.

Yeah that is literally how all trading goes. Kassian is probably going to put up a similar year this season as Andersons last season and he offers all the physicality of what Anderson offers but I wouldn't be dumb enough to pretend like he could garner top 6 talent in a trade for Kassian during a down year.

 

[Hookslide]

The initial trade proposal from the oilers fan was awful and insulting to CLBs .........If I thought for one moment that CLBs would even stop to think about it, I would personally call Sweeney and tell him to call the Bluejackets and offer them a helluva deal for those players mentioned if not all of them one or two of them.........

 

[Dr Quincy]

You get a cookie.

Although there is one element that I think you touched on but understated a tad. "Guys who can score and have physicality to their game" are indeed a little rare. And yet, it's even rarer to have guys like that that also have size (there's plenty of smaller guys who'll get down and dirty when needed), and also are fast skaters (the size/speed combo by itself is rare). Andy has gotten as far as he has because he's shown all four of those qualities, and that combo is shockingly hard to come by; it seems like usually those four attributes are a "pick any two or three" rather than getting all four. If he had historically lacked any one of those, perhaps some of these proposals wouldn't be as irksome. That he's shown all four means that a bounce-back makes him back into a valuable and rare kind of weapon. That's well worth holding out for. It's certainly still a gamble, but the potential payoff is perhaps a bit higher and harder to otherwise come by than folks realize.

EDIT: Forgot to mention - the reason why I in particular get so pushy about this is twofold. One is that the nature of the gamble is for higher-stakes than folks assume, as described above. The other is, as previously stated, that even after pointing that out, folks keep pushing. Repeatedly. For weeks. Enough to drive anyone insane.

Thanks for the cookie and speaking of keep pushing....

 

[Viqsi]

Yeah that is literally how all trading goes. Kassian is probably going to put up a similar year this season as Andersons last season and he offers all the physicality of what Anderson offers but I wouldn't be dumb enough to pretend like he could garner top 6 talent in a trade for Kassian during a down year.

Here are the flaws in your statement:
1) Kassian does not have the scoring track record Anderson does, nor does he have the speed, so he is not an Anderson replacement.
2) Nobody (aside from the sockpuppet troll) has said that Anderson could pick up a top-line talent straight up. GMs covet what he can do, for sure, but they also try to do the "oh, he's just another physical scoring guy" song-and-dance that so many do here in the hope of getting someone like him at lower cost. So if he still is what he has been, someone's going to lose in a trade involving him, and the most likely candidate for that someone is the Blue Jackets.
3) Anderson did what he did last year in a variety of situations with many different linemates, but most commonly Nick Foligno and Boone Jenner (and that only about a third of the time). Kassian has been able to come close to that only because he spends over 80% of his time on the ice with Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl. While I have a tremendous amount of respect for Boone and the Captain, I would not put them up as superior linemates over a pair of elite superstars.

 

[Space umpire]

Just say he’s not available then. Saying it would take Draisaitl makes you lot look like rubes slapping together trade offers on NHL20, where you just keep throwing in B and C level assets until the AI crashes.

the guy that put together the Anderson/Savard/Milano/Jenner offer last thread almost gave me a brain aneurysm. The mental gymnastics you have to go through to put together such a miserable offer for a superstar makes Lumbus fans the Simone Biles of the trade board. Leon is not available, to you or to anyone else. If you want to put Anderson in that category, by all means go for it.

I can see the difficulty of the mental gymnastics. Not even knowing what the word "literally" means puts you at quite the disadvantage.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I can see the difficulty of the mental gymnastics. Not even knowing what the word "literally" means puts you at quite the disadvantage.

Settle down, Jim Joyce, before you blow another one.

 

[McSuper]

I love Draisaitl and there nothing CBJ would move to get the Oilers to say yes to trading him . For Anderson ask is laughable . Just like the Jones ask from Edmonton is laughable to CBJ fans . Jones is well on his way to becoming the best D in the NHL

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I’d take it and run

Columbus wouldn't though, Really bad for them.