Proposal: EDM - CBJ

[Viqsi]

Jesus, CBJ fans REALLY overvalue Josh Anderson. He's not worth Bouchard or Broberg, let alone Draisaitl.

This is why this forum is quite a joke, everybody overvalues their own players and nothing is ever realistic.

...and here's a good example of the other nonsense we have to deal with. "We don't want to trade him" turns into "you idiots are overvaluing him". Because apparently the idea of not wanting to do business with a particular asset is so outré and incomprehensible that it just gets completely thrown away and recontextualized as something that does make sense to the "everything has its objective price" crowd. It's another manifestation of the fundamental disease of failing to recognize that trade is strictly a barter economy, that players are not fungible assets, and that there is no way to come up with anything like a "cash equivalent" in these things.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Allow me to illustrate something that you seem to be missing. Here is a sample conversation illustrating how this process normally goes.

Oilfan: "I want Anderson. What will it take?"
CBJfan: "He's not available."
Oilfan: "Oh, come on. He must be available. What will it take?"
CBJfan: "We don't want to trade him."
Oilfan: "He needs a change of scenery and you guys are doing poorly enough that it makes sense for you to trade him. What will it take?"
CBJfan: "We. Do. Not. Want. To. Move. Him."
Oilfan: "Anderson for Chaisson and a 4th?"
CBJfan: "No."
Oilfan: "Okay, I'll make the pick a 3rd."
CBJfan: "No, because we do not want to trade him."
Oilfan: "Well, what do you need?"
CBJfan: "For folks to stop asking about Anderson. In the interim, however, we really need a #2C. We're not trading Anderson for futures or packages; it doesn't help us."
Oilfan: "Well, we don't have one of those. How about Kassian instead of Chaisson?"
CBJfan: "No. Did you perchance miss the repeated 'we don't want to trade him' assertions earlier?"
Oilfan: "Look, I get that, but I'm really interested. Please just tell me what it would take."
CBJfan: "UGH, fine. Since we need a playmaking #2C, the closest player in value - and it's not all that close, frankly - is Draisaitl. But that's crazy talk, so we weren't going to go there. Satisfied?"
Bizarro You (leaping in): "OMG HOW DARE YOU TRY TO POACH DRAISAITL WHY CAN'T YOU BE REASONABLE"
CBJfan (thinking): Somebody just shoot me now.

The point is that this "it takes Draisaitl" thing is not something we come up with on the fly just to be jerks about it. It's after getting repeatedly pressured to come up with an answer that isn't one of the reasonable ones you're suggesting. We do give those sorts of reasonable answers you're suggesting. Repeatedly. It doesn't take. And then when we finally snap and start giving silly unreasonable answers in a likey vain effort to get folks to shut up and go away, crusaders like you suddenly leap into the thread going on and on about How Dare We Go There.

edit: I accidentally a word

That’s quite the onslaught of words without much basis in reality. I read pretty much every thread the Oilers are involved in and I can assure you nobody wants Anderson from you THAT badly. Cuddle your precious baby Joshie to your breast and sing him lullabies for all I care, but you don’t have the pieces for Leon. You just don’t. Keep his name out of your filthy mouths.

oh, and by the way, we do have a 2C that could maybe be had via trade: RNH. I HAVE seen his name brought into these threads and for some reason even though he’s exactly what you need, somehow he’s not an acceptable offer, despite the fact that he’s considered the better player in most circles. Don’t you think it’s just slightly possible you’re overrating Anderson to the ends of the goddamn earth?

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Jesus, CBJ fans REALLY overvalue Josh Anderson. He's not worth Bouchard or Broberg, let alone Draisaitl.

This is why this forum is quite a joke, everybody overvalues their own players and nothing is ever realistic.

And you made that huge post and STILL didn't come up with a reasonable offer.

That’s the “Savard+Milano+Jenner+Anderson is all we could possibly offer for Draisaitl” guy. I wouldn’t go expecting reasonableness from CBJ fans where Anderson is concerned, when offers of recent top ten picks for a dude with three points get spat on.

Whatever. They’ve made it abundantly clear they expect an absolutely ridiculous return for him, justified or not. Edmonton isn’t trading Draisaitl for Jones+, let alone Anderson+++, so there shouldn’t be any trade threads whatsoever involving Columbus unless a team is offering a superstar.

 

[Viqsi]

That’s quite the onslaught of words without much basis in reality. I read pretty much every thread the Oilers are involved in and I can assure you nobody wants Anderson from you THAT badly.

Then why are we still getting asked over and over again, even after having given the "not available" answer repeatedly, and continuing to give that answer repeatedly?

(And to be fair, it's not just Oil fans. There's some Bruins fans who are similarly really bad at the concept of "no".)

oh, and by the way, we do have a 2C that could maybe be had via trade: RNH. I HAVE seen his name brought into these threads and for some reason even though he’s exactly what you need, somehow he’s not an acceptable offer, despite the fact that he’s the better player in most circles.

Two reasons:
1) Not everybody in HFCBJ believes RNH actually can be what we need (personally, I think he'd be fine, but I'm also aware that the Oilers aren't in a position to spare him either, which makes your suggesting him seem just a teensy bit insincere)
2) The point is less about describing who it'd legitimately take and more about trying to get people who are ignoring "no" answers to shut up and go away, because we've been through those debates time and time again.

Don’t you think it’s just slightly possible you’re overrating Anderson to the ends of the goddamn earth?

This, here, is the battle cry of the "how dare you tell us no" legion. No, we don't overrate him. We just don't see profit for our team in trading him except in the most ludicrously unlikely situations, so we keep saying "no".

 

[72hockey guy]

i dont think the oiers have anyone other than Draisaitl or McDavid that is capable of getting Anderson 1 for 1. so as a fan of neither team, Id just keep Anderson

theres no upside in trading Anderson for a bunch of lesser pieces

 

[TFHockey]

I asked specifically about Anderson because I think he is a good 2nd line winger. If the ask is a 2nd line center in return I don't think Columbus will be able to make that trade.. with anybody. Centers are more versatile than wingers and go for more.

So no trade to be made here. That's okay. Happens all the time.

 

[TFHockey]

i dont think the oiers have anyone other than Draisaitl or McDavid that is capable of getting Anderson 1 for 1. so as a fan of neither team, Id just keep Anderson

theres no upside in trading Anderson for a bunch of lesser pieces

uh.. wut.

 

[72hockey guy]

uh.. wut.

do i need to say it again

you have no forwards other than those two id trade anderson for and your defense sucks

you have forwards that all leech off of Draisaitl and McDavid, without them to prop them up theyre relatively worthless

 

[Viqsi]

...criminy, now we even have sockpuppets being created trying to make us look crazy.

 

[Homesick]

do i need to say it again

you have no forwards other than those two id trade anderson for and your defense sucks

you have forwards that all leech off of Draisaitl and McDavid, without them to prop them up theyre relatively worthless

How are the Oilers at the top of the league with only two players that are worth a 3/4RW?

 

[ChaoticOrange]

How are the Oilers at the top of the league with only two players that are worth a 3/4RW?

Oh, there’s gonna be a fight now

but yes from a pure value perspective Edmonton has at least half a dozen assets worth Anderson. Columbus doesn’t want Klefbom or Nurse (not that Edmonton would trade them) or RNH (because reasons) or first rounders or elite D prospects because they have no holes but a rockstar C.

 

[Homesick]

...criminy, now we even have sockpuppets being created trying to make us look crazy.

Looks to be a Habs fan. Probably mad about that 5-2 pounding last month

 

[72hockey guy]

How are the Oilers at the top of the league with only two players that are worth a 3/4RW?

probably because you have those 2 players

its not like you were world beaters last year

without Draisaitl and McDavid do you really think youd be sniffing the playoffs?

you cant really be that gullible can you

I fully accept thatyou have 2 All World players but the rest of your team isnt much, youll only go as far as theyll carry you

based on that I thik Columbus has every right to ask for one of them, anything else is like trading a dollar for 3 quarters

 

[Homesick]

probably because you have those 2 players

its not like you were world beaters last year

without Draisaitl and McDavid do you really think youd be sniffing the playoffs?

you cant really be that gullible can you

Absolutely not. We would be like CBJ without Panarin/Bobrovsky
Would the Bruins win as many games without Marchand/Pasternak? Or the Caps without Ovechkin/Carlson?
Take the two best players of any team and they take a nose dive

 

[72hockey guy]

then we basically agree

look im not saying that with them the oilers arent formidable, they are. but I am saying that in order to acquire someone elses, top talent you need to have players that other teams think are worth Acquiring, and the Drop off after Draisaitl and McDavid is probably the biggest of any team in hockey

there is no shame in that. its just recognition of the truth of just how good they really are

and actually Boston would probably still find a way to make the playoffs even without Marchand and Pastrnak, thats the difference between a really good team and the oilers

 

[TFHockey]

probably because you have those 2 players

its not like you were world beaters last year

without Draisaitl and McDavid do you really think youd be sniffing the playoffs?

you cant really be that gullible can you

I fully accept thatyou have 2 All World players but the rest of your team isnt much, youll only go as far as theyll carry you

based on that I thik Columbus has every right to ask for one of them, anything else is like trading a dollar for 3 quarters

Look, there is no universe that exists where Columbus can ask for those two guys. Jebus man.

 

[Viqsi]

Oh, there’s gonna be a fight now

Enh. People say silly things when they're irritated. Especially when there's a troll involved.

 

[72hockey guy]

Look, there is no universe that exists where Columbus can ask for those two guys. Jebus man.

there most certainly is

THIS ONE

you dont like it but most teams wouldnt trade you their all star for your lesser players either

youre not willing to trade Draisaitl or McDavid for multiple lesser pieces, so why should they?

why is that so hard for you to grasp

 

[Viqsi]

there most certainly is

THIS ONE

you dont like it but most teams wouldnt trade you their all star for your lesser players either

youre not willing to trade Draisaitl or McDavid for multiple lesser pieces, so why should they?

why is that so hard for you to grasp

Probably because, while Andy is indeed beloved here and he's got a mix of skills that in combination is remarkably difficult to replace, and we seriously don't want to trade him, not even the most strident of CBJ homers would call him an all-star.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Edmonton and the Jackets are not potential trade partners. But people in Edmonton keep making ridiculous offers.

Here we go again:

Josh Anderson is 25 years old and he scored 47 points last season. He is big and fast and even willing to fight Zdano Chara. Not many people meet that description.

He hurt his shoulder in the playoffs last year and people suspect he has not fully recovered, hence his slow start.

He is an RFA after the season. The Jackets consider him a core piece and aren't looking to trade him. If we do trade him, we are looking for an upgrade at forward.

Our D is good. We have a pretty good RHD just out of Notre Dame in the AHL (Andrew Peeke) and way more LHD than we know what to do with.

We have several good goalie prospects and we are going with two young goalies in the NHL season. You might disagree with the strategy, but we are not looking for a goalie.

We have a ton of middle six forwards.

We need a Panarin replacement or a 1B/2 C which is why we traded for Duchene last year.

So to get Josh Anderson, you are going to need to offer us a forward better than Josh Anderson.

We are willing to trade other guys to make a deal. We have lots of D, like 2nd pair RHD David Savard or LHD Markus Nutivaara who has a pretty good contract that could be added to the deal. We could throw in someone like Sonny Milano, a skilled former first round pick who doesn't play much defense.

So let's look at forwards and prospects from the Oilers and see if we can make a deal:

NAME	G	A	PTS	+/-	For Anderson?	Why or why not?
Leon Draisaitl C	16	32	48	6	Y	One of the best players in the NHL
Connor McDavid C	18	29	47	5	Y	Best player in NHL
Zack Kassian RW	8	10	18	9	N	28 and never had a 30 point season
James Neal LW	14	3	17	-12	N	32 and bad contract
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins C	5	11	16	-4	N	UFA next year
Alex Chiasson RW	2	4	6	-1	N	29 and never had a 40 point season
Gaetan Haas C	2	3	5	0	N	27 year old rookie
Patrick Russell RW	0	4	4	1	N	Are you kidding?
Jujhar Khaira LW	4	0	4	-4	N	He has awesome eyebrows, but no thanks
Markus Granlund C	3	1	4	0	N	26 and once had a 30 point season
Sam Gagner C	1	3	4	0	N	Been there, done that
Tomas Jurco RW	0	2	2	1	N	26 and in the AHL -- we have those guys
Joakim Nygard LW	1	1	2	-3	N	26 year old rookie
Colby Cave C	1	0	1	-1	N	Is he bettter than Marko Dano?
Riley Sheahan C	0	1	1	-8	N	27 and never had a 40 point season
Josh Archibald RW	0	0	0	-6	N	Are you kidding?
Evan Bouchard					M	D, if we could then flip him for similar forward prospect
Philip Broberg					M	D, if we could then flip him for similar forward prospect
Kailer Yamamoto					N	We have plenty of small skilled forwards
Tyler Benson					M	Maybe if part of a package with a better player
Ryan McLeod					M	Maybe if part of a package with a better player
Cooper Marody					N	Is he friends with Werenski?

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The Oilers have 2 forwards who leap off the page. We would certainly make a deal with Anderson for either.

After McJesus and Drai, it is pretty slim pickings. RNH is a UFA after next year, so he is probably out unless we make a deal next year that also involves an extension. The rest of the Oilers forwards? I think we'll pass on any of them in a deal centered around Josh Anderson.

As for prospects, the Oilers top two play defense. And Yamamoto is on the small side, so I don't know that he is what we are after.

So I don’t think a trade is likely. But if the Oilers really want Josh, it is a trade that involves Drai. Or a third team who wants Bouchard and has a top forward to trade.

Not hard to find a player equal to a guy who has 3 points on the season. All this work to try and distract people from the fact Anderson has one outlier season where he scored 40 plus points but he fought Chara so he is so valuable.

 

[SabresSharks]

To Edm:
Jenner
Anderson
Savard

To CBJ:
Larsson
Chiasson
C. Jones
Puljujarvi
2020 2nd rd pick

Major shakeup for both teams, with Anderson struggling this season and needing a change of scenery, and Columbus definitely not a playoff team this year might be time to collect on some futures with Puljujarvi playing well in Finland and a top oilers D prospect (Seth's brother) and a pick along with roster replacements, I feel Larsson for Savard is fairly equal in itself.

CBJ fans must have missed the bolded. Surely that's a deal-clincher!

 

[Dr Quincy]

...and here's a good example of the other nonsense we have to deal with. "We don't want to trade him" turns into "you idiots are overvaluing him". Because apparently the idea of not wanting to do business with a particular asset is so outré and incomprehensible that it just gets completely thrown away and recontextualized as something that does make sense to the "everything has its objective price" crowd. It's another manifestation of the fundamental disease of failing to recognize that trade is strictly a barter economy, that players are not fungible assets, and that there is no way to come up with anything like a "cash equivalent" in these things.

You must have missed the last 18 years of a certain team in Foxboro.

 

[72hockey guy]

Probably because, while Andy is indeed beloved here and he's got a mix of skills that in combination is remarkably difficult to replace, and we seriously don't want to trade him, not even the most strident of CBJ homers would call him an all-star.

I disagree, to your team last year he was a star, he was right there with Panarin and Dubois in goals and he brought other aspects to the team that nobody else brought on a game by game basis.

I mean if you prefer to trade him for a bunch of lesser pieces thats on you, but I for one wouldnt consider it. How do a bunch of lesser pieces you truly dont need get you where you want to go?

Id sooner trade a player like that for multiple High Draft picks and hoping to hit a home run, than taking a bunch of lesser assets

sure the Oilers would love to consolidate lesser pieces into one stronger asset, they should do that when they have the 2 best assets in the sport, but it doesnt mean that other teams should help them do it. Unless they are getting Assets that they themselves need

 

[GhostfaceWu]

do i need to say it again

you have no forwards other than those two id trade anderson for and your defense sucks

you have forwards that all leech off of Draisaitl and McDavid, without them to prop them up theyre relatively worthless

It's kind of funny because as soon as you lost all your offensive dynamos Anderson hasn't been able to leach off anybody this year hense why he is sitting at 3 points.

 

[72hockey guy]

It's kind of funny because as soon as you lost all your offensive dynamos Anderson hasn't been able to leach off anybody this year hense why he is sitting at 3 points.

even if thats true, which I dont necessarily agree with because the Blue Jackets are in transition, it doesnt mean we should just Give him to the oilers for their scraps., that works for the oilers sure but not for anyone else.

and if you really believe Anderson is that bad, why on earth would you even want him?

its that type of nonsensical circular logic that Oiler fans are famous for, DO BETTER

just because Treliving fell for it and traded James Neal for Lucic doesnt mean other teams are gonna do it too, in fact that should serve as a warning to others