GDT: ECQF Game 3 | Jackets vs Lightning | 7:30 pm 8/15

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majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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There’s no shame in losing this series. It sucks and all, but this is all gravy. We shouldn’t be here, and we have been getting pretty wrecked by Tampa in all three games.

Tonight we got solidly outplayed in every sense, but I think sometimes the Bolts are just out-shot-attempting the Jackets from the perimeter. I'm not sure what you mean by "we shouldn't be here". The Jackets earned their right to be in this dance and still have a shot to pull off an upset. It would of course be an upset, maybe that's what you mean by "shouldn't be here", although I wouldn't use that phrase for just being an underdog.

And we won like 12 in a row to just barely be on the inside (and would have been on the outside if the NHL decided to go with a typical playoff format on point percentage). Tell me our roster is also better than Toronto’s. Not sure why you’re so aggressive, that wasn’t a negative post.

I'm starting to wonder if you just don't know your own team. The Jackets got into this dance with a half AHL lineup. It's a decent squad as set up right now. They're playing an extremely cautious style with very little offensive pressure so they're not going to look pretty much of the time. The roster doesn't compare to Tampa either, I don't have a problem with that. Take them on and go for the upset. Do you just feel an inner need to quit early? I can't tell what your point is.

Our roster is better for the playoffs than the Leafs.
 

CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
Jun 13, 2009
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3/4 of your posts are negative...as is your avatar...our defense was better than Torontos offense...yes, we need more offensive skill, but game 2, we outplayed tampa...

We score on that 5 on 3 early, we aren't having this discussion

I disagree on my posts, just because you don’t like them doesn’t mean they are negative. I really don’t know where that comes from. Some things aren’t always roses and rainbows. I call it how I see it, and I’m wrong sometimes and sometimes I’m not.

The avatar means nothing, I’ve had it for literally 2-3 years and only changed it briefly after Panarin and Bob left. who cares.

Statistically we have been heavily outplayed by Tampa in all three games. Korpi won us game two.

maybe not, but I don’t know if scoring on that 5 on 3 gives us a sudden energy charge that we didn’t have this game. Maybe it does, but who knows.
 

MoeBartoli

Checkers-to-Jackets
Jan 12, 2011
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This was just a terrible game. Alison tweeted it was the lowest 5on5 shot share all season - regular and post. The good news is it’s one game - yes a big one - but the puck drops again with the score 0-0.
 
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CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
Jun 13, 2009
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Tonight we got solidly outplayed in every sense, but I think sometimes the Bolts are just out-shot-attempting the Jackets from the perimeter. I'm not sure what you mean by "we shouldn't be here". The Jackets earned their right to be in this dance and still have a shot to pull off an upset. It would of course be an upset, maybe that's what you mean by "shouldn't be here", although I wouldn't use that phrase for just being an underdog.



I'm starting to wonder if you just don't know your own team. The Jackets got into this dance with a half AHL lineup. It's a decent squad as set up right now. They're playing an extremely cautious style with very little offensive pressure so they're not going to look pretty much of the time. The roster doesn't compare to Tampa either, I don't have a problem with that. Take them on and go for the upset. Do you just feel an inner need to quit early? I can't tell what your point is.

Our roster is better for the playoffs than the Leafs.

I can’t tell what YOUR point is?

My point is pretty obvious. Our offense lacks talent. Yes, it is deep with capable players. But we aren’t winning any games with skill on skill: and yes, I am aware we aren’t trying to do that either. Like you said, we’re trying to capitalize on other teams mistakes in order to translate into our offensive pressure, while focusing primarily on defense. This is fine, I guess, but you’re not winning any championships with that style of play. Especially with the roster we have now. And I don’t think anyone is expecting a cup this year either. There’s nothing wrong with not being good enough yet.

They earned their way in, yes, but I don’t think many people would consider our roster a playoff roster in the sense of skill and talent. However, we have a good coach who knows how to utilize the strengths of the team, which is why we had a chance in the first place.
 
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Speedy Sanderson

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Jan 29, 2012
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I can’t tell what YOUR point is?

My point is pretty obvious. Our offense lacks talent. Yes, it is deep with capable players. But we aren’t winning any games with skill on skill: and yes, I am aware we aren’t trying to do that either. Like you said, we’re trying to capitalize on other teams mistakes in order to translate into our offensive pressure, while focusing primarily on defense. This is fine, I guess, but you’re not winning any championships with that style of play. Especially with the roster we have now. And I don’t think anyone is expecting a cup this year either. There’s nothing wrong with not being good enough yet.

They earned their way in, yes, but I don’t think many people would consider our roster a playoff roster. However, we have a good coach who knows how to utilize the strengths of the team, which is why we had a chance in the first place.
Why not a playoff roster? Great defense, a solid goaltending tandem. Forwards are pedestrian, but who didn't make the playoffs that are demonstrably better than the Jackets? Not saying they're a one or two seed, but CBJ aren't a joke either.
 

CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
Jun 13, 2009
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Why not a playoff roster? Great defense, a solid goaltending tandem. Forwards are pedestrian, but who didn't make the playoffs that are demonstrably better than the Jackets? Not saying they're a one or two seed, but CBJ aren't a joke either.

They’re a fringe playoff team. Just like Florida and the Rangers and Winnipeg and any other fringe examples you can use this year. We have good pieces, but not enough to consider us a contender when you think of playoff teams (such as the Pittsburgh’s, Washington’s, etc) who are for sure making it in. I never called us a joke.
 
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Kshahdoo

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Mar 23, 2008
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Talent disparity is huge between these two teams. Jackets have to play every game like it's the most important one in their lifes, and Tampa be pretty mediocre, and then there's a chance for victory. It can't work every game.
 

majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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I can’t tell what YOUR point is?

How about that "we don't deserve to be here" is off base? They won their right to be here. They absolute DO deserve to be here. I know you mean "on paper" [and you're wrong there too] but you just shouldn't say that when your team fights and wins to get to this point.

My point is pretty obvious. Our offense lacks talent. Yes, it is deep with capable players. But we aren’t winning any games with skill on skill: and yes, I am aware we aren’t trying to do that either. Like you said, we’re trying to capitalize on other teams mistakes in order to translate into our offensive pressure, while focusing primarily on defense. This is fine, I guess, but you’re not winning any championships with that style of play. Especially with the roster we have now. And I don’t think anyone is expecting a cup this year either.

It's one heck of a long shot, sure. But the idea of a less talented team beating a more talented team can't be that much of a shocker at this point, can it be? Please tell me you haven't reverted to expecting talent to win every series, as if we haven't seen the opposite of that happening over and over again. I really wouldn't be surprised if a "less talented" squad goes all the way.

They earned their way in, yes, but I don’t think many people would consider our roster a playoff roster in the sense of skill and talent. However, we have a good coach who knows how to utilize the strengths of the team, which is why we had a chance in the first place.

Some could make the exact opposite argument - that our coach's extremely defensive strategy is why we have player after player have career worst seasons. We're seeing the product of a defensive system at both ends of the ice. In my opinion the Jackets need a couple more strong playmakers, they've got plenty of guys that can score (and have scored) 20 or 30 in the right situation. The extreme dearth of offensive pressure is more a consequence of coaching strategy in my opinion.
 
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majormajor

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I didn't expect Torts to come out and cite fatigue. But what else are you going to say tonight? It wasn't just the legs, they couldn't think straight.
 

CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
Jun 13, 2009
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How about that "we don't deserve to be here" is off base? They won their right to be here. They absolute DO deserve to be here. I know you mean "on paper" [and you're wrong there too] but you just shouldn't say that when your team fights and wins to get to this point.

Am I? Wheres the strengths? Defensively, right? Okay. We have Jones and Werenski, probably the best pairing in the league or at least in the conversation. Savard and Gavrikov, solid defenders, but they're not helping you score goals. This is a nice second pairing though. Murray and Kukan (since he's clearly established himself as better than Nuti and Harrington) are a formidable third pairing that could pass for a lot of teams second pairing, mostly due to Murray.

After that? You have some nice pieces offensively, but nothing you're really afraid of. PLD is getting there, and you are obviously accounting for Cam and Bjorkstrands shots, but other than that nobody is striking fear in you that you need to focus.

Seems like a bubble team to me (and I mean bubble as in a fringe playoff team). A team where if they make it in, you go "Oh okay, I see why." but if they miss you aren't surprised either.

And I didn't mention goalies on purpose, because I think its been pretty much proven our system is very goalie friendly right now.

It's one heck of a long shot, sure. But the idea of a less talented team beating a more talented team can't be that much of a shocker at this point, can it be? Please tell me you haven't reverted to expecting talent to win every series, as if we haven't seen the opposite of that happening over and over again. I really wouldn't be surprised if a "less talented" squad goes all the way.

This year is an anomaly because of the restart and all. So yeah, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if a team who shouldn't win it ends up playing for it (Calgary, NYI, CBJ, MTL, Dallas sort of teams fit this mold), but that would be a completely different year. Typically, that wouldn't happen. They might win a round, maybe even two, but their number would get called eventually.

Last few SCF:

Boston-STL, 2nd most points in the East vs (tied for) 4th most points in the West.
Washington vs VGK. 3rd in East to 3rd in the West
Pittsburgh vs NSH. 2nd vs 8th (hey, the worst team made it in!)
Pittsburgh vs SJ. 2nd vs 6th.

Looks like you have to be pretty high in the standings in order to win/play for the cup, and if you get there and you're NOT that, you'll lose.

Some could make the exact opposite argument - that our coach's extremely defensive strategy is why we have player after player have career worst seasons. We're seeing the product of a defensive system at both ends of the ice. In my opinion the Jackets need a couple more strong playmakers, they've got plenty of guys that can score (and have scored) 20 or 30 in the right situation. The extreme dearth of offensive pressure is more a consequence of coaching strategy in my opinion.

I agree here, but again, I think he's playing to the strength of his team. And that strength certainly isn't offensive firepower. If we TRIED to play at that style, I don't think we'd be singing the praises of Korpisalo and Elvis as much as we have this year.
 

majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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Are you familiar with the 1995 New Jersey Devils?

They had a bunch of pieces up front, a lot of middling forwards cobbled together with a great backend. They played a hyper defensive style under Coach Lemaire (the actual "trap" defense) and a lot of guys had their worst offensive seasons that year. Claude Lemieux, Bill Guerin, John Maclean, Bobby Holik all scored just around half a point per game. They beat the Red Wings team in the finals that scored something like a goal per game more than them in the regular season.

I don't think the Jackets are built much differently than those Devils squads.
 

CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
Jun 13, 2009
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Are you familiar with the 1995 New Jersey Devils?

They had a bunch of pieces up front, a lot of middling forwards cobbled together with a great backend. They played a hyper defensive style under Coach Lemaire (the actual "trap" defense) and a lot of guys had their worst offensive seasons that year. Claude Lemieux, Bill Guerin, John Maclean, Bobby Holik all scored just around half a point per game. They beat the Red Wings team in the finals that scored something like a goal per game more than them in the regular season.

I don't think the Jackets are built much differently than those Devils squads.

Too bad this is 2020 and not 1995 then. The game has changed, and while those types of teams still employ a similar style of play, that doesn't mean similar results will happen.
 

majormajor

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Too bad this is 2020 and not 1995 then. The game has changed, and while those types of teams still employ a similar style of play, that doesn't mean similar results will happen.

Unlikely, but I really genuinely don't think it's impossible. You write like it's all foreordained and impossible. This outcome hasn't been decided yet. They'll do it on the ice, not on paper.
 
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KCbus

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Jan 3, 2010
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I don't think anyone's disputing that the Lightning are better on paper. But they outplayed us in game 1, and it still took five overtimes to beat us. We played them pretty even in game 2 and won. They outplayed us tonight, and it was still a one-goal game, in which our usually solid goaltender let in at least one (and possibly two) he should have had. If that flubbed pass in the first period doesn't go in, this game is still going on.

Despite what we saw in the crazy comeback against the Leafs, this team isn't built to play from behind. They just don't have the firepower to abandon the system and generate offense when it's necessary. Plus, Tampa finally figured out that playing defense kind of matters in the playoffs. Good on them.

This is still a tight series.
 

KCbus

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Also...
Power Play poop.jpg
 

CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
Jun 13, 2009
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Unlikely, but I really genuinely don't think it's impossible. You write like it's all foreordained and impossible. This outcome hasn't been decided yet. They'll do it on the ice, not on paper.

I believe a team can win any given day at any given day. The best team doesn't always win a series, and all that.

But I do not believe in the thought that "if you get in the playoffs, you can win the cup!"

This CBJ team winning the cup as currently constructed wouldn't be impossible, but its damn close.
 

majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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If there's one thing I hate seeing on our Powerplay it's the points repeatedly switching sides, as if Jones and Werenski think they can somehow confuse the other team by constantly switching back and forth to their non-one-timer sides. It serves no purpose and always confuses the Jackets more than the other team.
 
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