I'll wait for a legal opinion on that one. The Mavs agreement with the Wolves was directly between them. Players assigned by the Wolves are still on the roster and practicing with the team.
ECHL absorbs CHL, 7 teams to join ECHL for 2014-15 season
- Thread starter Agalloch
- Start date
I'll wait for a legal opinion on that one. The Mavs agreement with the Wolves was directly between them. Players assigned by the Wolves are still on the roster and practicing with the team.
No Fun Shogun
34-38-61-10-13-15
It's true that all contracts were null and void as signed by the CHL teams. That's why all the players on the former CHL teams had to resign their contracts (see ECHL Transactions on their website), and how the ex-CHL teams voided the contracts with their vets to get down to the ECHL's 4 vet limit.
Sports Enthusiast
Not Here To Be Liked
I'm aware of all of that, BUT I don't believe that had anything to do with affiliation agreements between teams and that is my point.
Ok,good point! Maybe affiliations with an AHL team, without a reciprocal deal with the NHL parent club, have a different binding nature.
While this does not come from a lawyer, it does come from Joe Babik the Director of Communications for the ECHL...
http://twosportsnuts.podbean.com/mobile/e/echl-expansion/
It is a good listen. None of this means that any previous affiliations could not have be re-agreed to once the 7 teams joined the ECHL.
http://twosportsnuts.podbean.com/mobile/e/echl-expansion/
It is a good listen. None of this means that any previous affiliations could not have be re-agreed to once the 7 teams joined the ECHL.
No Fun Shogun
34-38-61-10-13-15
Just heard a Brampton Beast commercial on TSN Toronto promoting their upcoming first ECHL game, so at least we know that they're going to be spending some money promoting their brand and new league.
For better or for worse, the ECHL seems to have a 1:1:1 mentality or bust. Hypothetically, if the ECHL were to go to 30 teams what do you guys think are the best options? Could any of the old markets below return to hockey or the ECHL?
Peoria- ECHL was very interested
San Francisco- poor attendance, but does that change with new ownership who would be able to focus solely on management and not coaching?
Trenton- could a return a few years off revive the market and strengthen the northeast?
Las Vegas- They claim to be returning next year, but will they be able to find a rink? if they do is it in the ECHL??
Houston- a new, smaller, rink is supposedly on the way. could they make a return to hockey?
Peoria- ECHL was very interested
San Francisco- poor attendance, but does that change with new ownership who would be able to focus solely on management and not coaching?
Trenton- could a return a few years off revive the market and strengthen the northeast?
Las Vegas- They claim to be returning next year, but will they be able to find a rink? if they do is it in the ECHL??
Houston- a new, smaller, rink is supposedly on the way. could they make a return to hockey?
San Francisco is a bad market for ECHL. The costs are just too high.
I could see a few of the better attended SPHL teams joining in a similar move to what the CHL and WCHL have done.
Vegas might be in on the AHL West thing at some point, or there are rumors of NHL...There are lots of buildings in town.
This has also been discussed on AHL boards, but one thing that is clearly happening is that NHL teams want to have their AHL & ECHL franchises within close proximity.
Pittsburgh - WBS - Wheeling
Buffalo - Rochester - Elmira
Philly - Lehigh Valley - Reading
Detroit - Grand Rapids - Toledo
Chicago - Rockford - Indy
So, do you see any of those ECHL franchises being revived by an NHL team within (relatively) close proximity?
Sports Enthusiast
Not Here To Be Liked
I think its more for the AHL team so that if they need bodies they can get them quick or have to send guys down so they can get to practices and what not.
GindyDraws
I will not disable my Adblock, HF
This I agree. One primary reason for the talk about the "AHL West" was so those teams can get their players faster. In the five close-knit circuits, however, I think it's more or a convinence factor, as well as seeing if there's a hidden gem from the ECHL club that would be worth experimenting on.
I can see that system working for Indy & maybe Toledo, but the others we'll have to see.
Hmm...
Peoria: Would work. It would be so much easier for them if they were in the CHL, where they had close proximity to at least 7 teams, as opposed to SPHL, where the rest of their opponents are in the south.
San Francisco: Bad market, horrible old arena, and the proposed new arena would be too expensive for an ECHL franchise.
Trenton: Maybe... if the ECHL regains a foothold in the Mid-Atlantic region, but you also have the New Jersey Devils playing there.
Las Vegas: That depends. There are lots of conflicting stories about a stubborn casino and a cheapskate owner, and they may not even come back.
Houston: This would be the best choice. While Houstonians would not be overtly happy about the ECHL, at least it's better than no hockey in H-Town. There is a clear lack of franchises in that region, unlike in the old days, and Allen would be the closest rival. But, I think that the ECHL would like to solidify themselves in another major market.
Here's my take....
Peoria- An attractive geographic location. However, the rink needs a major upgrade and the town's demographics are on the decline in several categories, mainly financial.
San Francisco- Was it management, the venue, or are the locals not interested ? The ECHL would have to really figure it out, because the first two can be fixed, but the last item can not.
Trenton- Meh! They'd be better off waiting for the AHL move and pluck Norfolk if it's available.
Las Vegas- The AHL and NHL really balk on considering this town, and the ECHL could join them after the latest owner/casino fiasco. This could be time for the ECHL to either activate the RENO 'futures bit', or just write off Nevada.
Houston- This is the Southwest's version of Brampton, isolated and no nearby NHL/AHL affiliations. Wouldn't happen unless another Texas team and or Shreveport also join the E.
Regarding the trio in limbo,Denver, Arizona, & St. Charles, only Arizona has a slight chance of resurgence in some hockey league . I don't see Denver or St. Charles reviving the necessary fan interest.
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More than what?
There are several reasons why teams want affiliates close by, player travel being one of them. Most NHL franchises have developmental coaches / staff who also need to travel, and it's inherently easier to make a minor league team attractive to local fans when those fans are already engaged with the major league affiliate.
The point being, if any city is to return to / enter into the ECHL (or AHL for that matter), an important factor will be the potential affiliation.
When dealing with affiliations, I'd love to see some sort of provision that protects ECHL teams against the AHL raiding ECHL-contracted players when AHL/NHL-contracted players are available.
Don't ever see the NHL/AHL nor the players union going for it (restricting opportunities or options) but, as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, it doesn't do the ECHL team's locker room any favors to have frustrated/unmotivated contract players watching ECHL guys get called up instead of them.
As it is, there isn't a ton of motivation, from purely a hockey standpoint, for the NHL or AHL to give a rip about the ECHL or its teams. Don't like a player? Banish him to your affiliate. Need a player? Call up whoever you want from any team, regardless of whether or not you have contracted players available for recall. If the ECHL coach has done his job well, he's unearthed a couple gems on his own that any AHL team can come in and call up, affiliate or not.
It's basically a no-lose proposition for the AHL teams and you're almost penalizing the ECHL team for doing a good job of scouting and recruiting.
Don't ever see the NHL/AHL nor the players union going for it (restricting opportunities or options) but, as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, it doesn't do the ECHL team's locker room any favors to have frustrated/unmotivated contract players watching ECHL guys get called up instead of them.
As it is, there isn't a ton of motivation, from purely a hockey standpoint, for the NHL or AHL to give a rip about the ECHL or its teams. Don't like a player? Banish him to your affiliate. Need a player? Call up whoever you want from any team, regardless of whether or not you have contracted players available for recall. If the ECHL coach has done his job well, he's unearthed a couple gems on his own that any AHL team can come in and call up, affiliate or not.
It's basically a no-lose proposition for the AHL teams and you're almost penalizing the ECHL team for doing a good job of scouting and recruiting.
Umm, the ECHL owner and the arena's owner had issues with one another. I don't think that's a reason to discount Vegas, which has drawn well in the past. The NHL is allegedly considering Vegas, so I wouldn't say that they balk at it. The AHL hasn't had teams close enough to make any move to Vegas make any sense. If the AHL west thing happens with Ontario, Bakersfield, Stockton, and possibly San Diego - Vegas becomes a much more interesting option. Afterall, Vegas has cheap flights to pretty much everywhere, it's driving distance of the California teams. Attendance has never been all that bad, certainly better than some current AHL teams. If a building can be arranged, there's no reason it wouldn't be a viable AHL city *if* the AHL West happens. There are tons of buildings in Vegas - the main issue was time for the ECHL owners, not building options.
I'm guessing you're a fan of an ECHL team that has ECHL contracted players called up to the AHL.
I'd find it hard to believe an ECHL contracted player would be offended or would refuse an oppurtunity of an AHL call-up.
Sports Enthusiast
Not Here To Be Liked
Not many guys are going from the ECHL to the NHL. Maybe some coaches and goaltenders. But coaches have to be in a dire situation where the teams above them aren't good at all. Otherwise its a long shot. Diehards don't care about affiliations because they know the realistic deal. The sheep....or casual fan if they know anything about hockey might care but most casual fans don't know too much of the business if anything. Like in Elmira this year I don't see attendance skyrocketing off the charts just because of the affiliation change. Sure hasn't done anything for Wheeling.
The concerns for the top two levels [NHL & AHL] are Vegas is not the kind of atmosphere they prefer their young talent [18-22yrs.old] being in with limited supervision. Also, the cost of living and other activities are too pricy for guys on minor league salaries. It's trouble waiting to happen.
BTW, Las Vegas is nowhere near the top of the expansion list for the NHL so don't hold your breath waiting for a team.
I don't recall saying or even hinting that one would.
I was talking about the teams. What incentive do the AHL/NHL teams have to really work with an ECHL team when they can go call up pretty much whoever they want from wherever they want, even if they have contracted players playing for its affiliate? From the standpoint of the ECHL teams, it'd be nice to have some kind of protection against that stuff but, like I said, I don't see any way the players union or the AHL/NHL would ever go for it.
All these ECHL teams have become are holding bins for scouting mistakes or underperforming players.
GareFan18
Registered User
I could see something like this for Missouri (Kansas City)
St. Louis-Chicago Wolves-Missouri Mavericks
Or
Minnesota-Des Moines-Missouri Mavericks. Though Minnesota may affiliate with Quad Cities.
St. Louis-Chicago Wolves-Missouri Mavericks
Or
Minnesota-Des Moines-Missouri Mavericks. Though Minnesota may affiliate with Quad Cities.
Sports Enthusiast
Not Here To Be Liked
I wish the dopes running this league would come to the realization that the diehards have long figured out. This league is not important to the successes of the AHL or NHL. They really don't even need this league. The only reason they do is to stuff remaining contracts of guys way down the number list of contracted players who can't make the AHL roster but are out of options aside from going to Europe(which if they were smarter the players would rather go there, better hockey and more money)most of these guys will never become AHL regulars let alone play in the NHL. The product is horrible because of the affiliation. Nothing like going to a mid season game in Elmira or Reading and seeing a depleted lineup and struggling to field a team and having to use FHL or SPHL level players to fill the voids. Paying for season tickets isn't worth it. This league would be well better off becoming like the old UHL. The UHL didn't die because of Its business model. It died because the league became a Midwestern bus league and was in struggling cities like Port Huron, Muskegon and Flint who could no longer support teams. Throw in a team from Chicago that had no real shot and Bloomington was always a mess.
HansH
Unwelcome Spectre
If affiliations didn't make the business economically feasible, some unaffiliated league would come into the many vacant markets and, by your reasoning, make a killing because people would flock to the arena...
...but the market hasn't supported that. Market forces have made it clear that getting some kind of salary relief and subsidy from a higher league are nearly essential to keep the red ink from killing a mid-minors level team. That's not the doing of the ECHL -- that's the market saying what it's willing to pay for the entertainment product. The UHL failed, the WCHL failed, the IHL (of the 90s) failed... independent hockey is just not supported by the markets. The empirical evidence is clear.
Unless you think you can make a killing in founding an independent league, in which case I wish you the best of luck.
...but the market hasn't supported that. Market forces have made it clear that getting some kind of salary relief and subsidy from a higher league are nearly essential to keep the red ink from killing a mid-minors level team. That's not the doing of the ECHL -- that's the market saying what it's willing to pay for the entertainment product. The UHL failed, the WCHL failed, the IHL (of the 90s) failed... independent hockey is just not supported by the markets. The empirical evidence is clear.
Unless you think you can make a killing in founding an independent league, in which case I wish you the best of luck.
The Mallards were affiliated the Wild last season and continued their (now defunct) CHL affiliation again this season. Alaska is the current "official" ECHL affiliate for Minnesota, replacing Orlando from last season.
Once a fully-integrated ECHL begins playing in 2015-16, I bet Minnesota makes the QC Mallards their lone ECHL affiliate. This season, however, I can see Alaska getting most of Minnesota's better prospect material.
