ECHL absorbs CHL, 7 teams to join ECHL for 2014-15 season

[Sports Enthusiast]

Think they wanna see who can hqck it first. I don't see all 7 teams lasting for 2015-2016

 

[battfan888]

The Beast are currently having a Q&A on their twitter feed and they mentioned now that they will be hosting Wheeling on December 7th. That's a day that they were supposed to be at home to Wichita so as I said perhaps for some teams closer to the main bunch of ECHL teams the schedule is going to see some big changes. It's not that they are facing these teams it's that they are swapping dates as I mentioned above.

 

[JungleJON]

I can see them switching teams, but probably not many dates. It would be nice to see Quad Cities face Ft. Wayne and Allen and Colorado meet for a game. Hopefully everyone survives until next season and then you will see a more balanced schedule.

You might see Peoria try to come back into the ECHL, don't know if they can find another suitable arena for the team in Vegas. One city I would love for them to get their team back is Bossier-Shreveport - love those Mudbugs.

 

[Timl2009]

I can see Youngstown as a possibility in a couple years maybe. The biggest reason they failed was the travel west..Here you're right in the middle of Toledo, Cincinnati and Wheeling for starters..And not too far from Reading and points in Michigan and Indiana..Perfect fit for an owner who wants to take a chance..

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.echl.com/echl-announces-revisions-to-divisional-alignment-and-playoff-format-p194048

New division alignment and playoff format announced

 

[mk80]

I think that it won't be long until Peoria moves back into the league especially with the addition of the CHL teams they aren't on an island anymore as much. I think they are poised to join the Western conference. An I would love to see the Mudbugs return but unfortunately I don't see it happening anytime soon.

 

[Liberty Biberty]

Would never expect Wheeling to be ahead of the game on anything.

Haha actually they have a very active twitter. Always retweeting the fans and stuff, always promoting radio appearances and alumni information. The organization tries, its just in a bad market....

 

[PSGJ]

Does anyone think we will see in increase in the 50 contract limit for NHL teams? I think they would need to increase that number if the ECHL is going to be a true development league and not just a league with a sprinkling of NHL contracted players.

 

[Hoodaha]

Does anyone think we will see in increase in the 50 contract limit for NHL teams? I think they would need to increase that number if the ECHL is going to be a true development league and not just a league with a sprinkling of NHL contracted players.

I think the ECHL wants to be a true developmental league. It is yet to be seen if the NHL really wants that.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

I think the ECHL wants to be a true developmental league. It is yet to be seen if the NHL really wants that.

They don't. They just want a place to stash remaining bodies.

 

[MiamiHockey]

I think the ECHL wants to be a true developmental league. It is yet to be seen if the NHL really wants that.

NHL teams that own their AHL affiliates are becoming more aware of the importance / value of having a strong ECHL affiliate. Yes, the AHL team's primary value is the development of young players for the NHL, but when injuries hit and players get called up to the NHL, it's also important to have players in place that can fit in and maintain the AHL team's success. That is more important to an NHL team that owns its AHL affiliate (and thus wants profitability) than for a team that is merely affiliated with an AHL franchise.

And, occasionally, a guy like Mark Arcobello or Alex Burrows will work his way from the ECHL to the NHL.

 

[JackalsKnuckles]

NHL teams that own their AHL affiliates are becoming more aware of the importance / value of having a strong ECHL affiliate. Yes, the AHL team's primary value is the development of young players for the NHL, but when injuries hit and players get called up to the NHL, it's also important to have players in place that can fit in and maintain the AHL team's success. That is more important to an NHL team that owns its AHL affiliate (and thus wants profitability) than for a team that is merely affiliated with an AHL franchise.

And, occasionally, a guy like Mark Arcobello or Alex Burrows will work his way from the ECHL to the NHL.

I guess I just don't see how this benefits fans in ECHL cities. The whole model is set up to benefit everyone except the actual ECHL team (although I understand they don't get a big salary cap hit with AHL contracted players).

Essentially if you are a fan in an ECHL city the message is "don't build a roster to win because AHL teams will take your guys when they need them. The AHL club will also send you guys that are under contract but can't perform and don't want to be in the ECHL either". In Elmira many of the AHL contracted guys were much worse performers than the guys on ECHL deals, but coaches were pressured to play the AHL guys to "develop them" thus taking away ice time from guys who could help the team win.

Why a fan would want this over a more stable independent league team with more vets, less roster turnover, and the opportunity for the coaching staff to try to build a team to win is beyond me.

 

[MiamiHockey]

I guess I just don't see how this benefits fans in ECHL cities. The whole model is set up to benefit everyone except the actual ECHL team (although I understand they don't get a big salary cap hit with AHL contracted players).

Essentially if you are a fan in an ECHL city the message is "don't build a roster to win because AHL teams will take your guys when they need them. The AHL club will also send you guys that are under contract but can't perform and don't want to be in the ECHL either". In Elmira many of the AHL contracted guys were much worse performers than the guys on ECHL deals, but coaches were pressured to play the AHL guys to "develop them" thus taking away ice time from guys who could help the team win.

Why a fan would want this over a more stable independent league team with more vets, less roster turnover, and the opportunity for the coaching staff to try to build a team to win is beyond me.

I never argued it was for the fans. But, consider how (un)successful the other models have been. The UHL and CHL (and, once upon a time, the IHL) have operated without NHL support, and all three have folded. Becoming a developmental league for the NHL means that the ECHL will be more stable financially. There may be more turnover of players from year to year, but how can that be worse than having teams / leagues fold?

 

[JackalsKnuckles]

I never argued it was for the fans. But, consider how (un)successful the other models have been. The UHL and CHL (and, once upon a time, the IHL) have operated without NHL support, and all three have folded. Becoming a developmental league for the NHL means that the ECHL will be more stable financially. There may be more turnover of players from year to year, but how can that be worse than having teams / leagues fold?

Certainly valid points. Although the hockey culture is way different in Canada thant the states it does seem that they have it figured out with the junior model. From the 60 Major Junior teams to the 100 some Junior A teams and even Junior B the hockey is entertaining and at all 3 levels the teams are there to win, although some callups occur. The product is cetainly entertaining, rivalries intense, and hockey filled with emotion.

The lower operating costs also allow smaller markets to have a chance at success as well.

 

[Hoodaha]

I guess I just don't see how this benefits fans in ECHL cities. The whole model is set up to benefit everyone except the actual ECHL team (although I understand they don't get a big salary cap hit with AHL contracted players).

Essentially if you are a fan in an ECHL city the message is "don't build a roster to win because AHL teams will take your guys when they need them. The AHL club will also send you guys that are under contract but can't perform and don't want to be in the ECHL either". In Elmira many of the AHL contracted guys were much worse performers than the guys on ECHL deals, but coaches were pressured to play the AHL guys to "develop them" thus taking away ice time from guys who could help the team win.

Why a fan would want this over a more stable independent league team with more vets, less roster turnover, and the opportunity for the coaching staff to try to build a team to win is beyond me.

The big benefit is the cap break on players. ECHL teams pay the NHL team to be able to get this cap break. These are made up numbers, but a $1,000/week player is a $750/week player against the cap if they have an AHL contract.

The other benefits are soft. Being able to associate your team's name with that of an NHL team is good for marketing and lends an air of legitimacy.

Occasionally, the affiliation is a very good thing for the ECHL team. If the AHL team doesn't make the playoffs, the ECHL team inherits a bunch of AHL guys for their playoff run. Really, you want to be affiliated with an AHL team close to the playoffs, but not good enough to make the playoffs. It's a bit of a tight rope to walk.

 

[hkymnky]

The 1:1:1 partnership could be further away than some think though, with the AHL possibly moving West, the ECHL could lose several Western teams.

Apologies for jumping to an older post but I've been busy...

While the ECHL is likely to lose some valuable markets with the (increasingly likely) westward movement of the AHL, the thing to keep in mind is that the franchises in those markets is unlikely to disappear completely.

Ontario, Bakersfield (and potentially Stockton) are owned by NHL clubs. Even if they move their AHL teams to those markets they will still own ECHL franchises. While its possible that they will just fold their ECHL assets that seems like a huge waste. Instead I suspect that they will move those franchises to other markets. While the conventional wisdom seems to be that the NHL teams will just swap markets (ECHL to Manchester, Worcester, etc.), I suspect that western teams will want to keep their entire development system on the west coast. This isn't to say that the ECHL wont make a foray into the New England...I just don't think LA, Worcester, Edmonton (or any of the other Pacific Division teams) are going to be the ones leading the charge.

Meanwhile...for all the folks talking about the lack of passion/intensity/rivalries in the ECHL, my advice is to find your local junior, high school, or college club team and support them. The quality of the hockey may be far from professional, but I can tell you from personal experience that kids who are playing for the joy of the game are going to play with more heart than just about anyone.

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

Really. And yet the ECHL is recognized in the NHL CBA, meaning that a player signed to an NHL (Entry-Level) Contract can only be assigned to a team in the AHL or ECHL. Yet the NHL has "no interest" in the ECHL as a developmental league?

It is true that, as compared to baseball, NHL players are much less likely to have played AA - the development of players in baseball is very different than it is in hockey. But, 14 NHL teams own their AHL franchises ... and those franchises rely upon ECHL affiliates to develop players for the AHL, and also rely on their ECHL affiliates to provide players for recall throughout the season.

So, it's a bit ridiculous to suggest that the NHL has "no interest" in the ECHL. They have a great deal of interest.

Got me, "no interest" may be a stretch. Conversely, to say they have "a great deal of interest" seems equally a bit ridiculous.

Contrary to what people think about my remarks on here, I like the ECHL. Just not the entertainment value. The hockey I have seen in the league is just not entertaining. I'm sure this is because it is a development league, where the old IHL, CoHL/UHL/IHL2 was not.

As another poster that is knowledgeable stated, this isn't baseball. I have my doubts that the 30/30/30 concept would work.

Also, there are cities that I don't think the ECHL would work. New England especially.

The NHL will eventually get its way and have AHL teams in the west, I guess. Maybe they'll start their own league. I don't know. Nobody does.

I think the ECHL wants to be a true developmental league. It is yet to be seen if the NHL really wants that.

You may be right on this. Although I agree they really just want a place to stash non AHL players. I don't think they want to stock 21-24 AA players. This isn't baseball, not sure if it ever will be.

Understand your statement, though.

They don't. They just want a place to stash remaining bodies.

Agree.

This is where the interest level from the NHL lies.

Does anyone think we will see in increase in the 50 contract limit for NHL teams? I think they would need to increase that number if the ECHL is going to be a true development league and not just a league with a sprinkling of NHL contracted players.

This is the 1000 pound gorilla in the room.

Why would they, juniors and overseas built in farm system.

To answer your question, I don't think so.

Most true statement I've read in a long time. I've seen more entertaining Junior A (LHJQ) games during one weekend in Quebec a month ago than the 35 games I went to in Elmira last season. Then you get leagues like the Q and that is amazing. You don't need prospects or big names, you just need teams built to win and play together and a sense of rivalries and dislike between the teams.

Agree. People want to be entertained, especially at the minor league level. My guess is most people don't go to Jackels, Comets, Thunder (fill in your teams name) games and think; "wow, #23 is really developing nicely. I can't wait to see him on TV playing in the NHL down the road!"

People want t see rivalries with other teams, especially closer regional teams.

I don't know how the ECHL does this being a developmental league.

I also don't see how anther UHL type league survives without NHL help.

 

[bmichel5581]

I really hope Peoria and Omaha become teams #29 and #30!

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

I really hope Peoria and Omaha become teams #29 and #30!

Would easily bet there won't remain 28 as is after this season(meaning some teams folding)

 

[HansH]

Until (and unless) the ECHL passes some kind of by-law requiring one (and only one) NHL/AHL affiliation, the idea of 30/30/30 remains only the sort of OCD obsession that insists that the NHL _must_ be expanding to 32 teams because the divisions are "uneven", even despite quotes from Bettman himself saying "we won't expand just for someone's idea of symmetry".

My advice for watchers is to stop obsessing about 30/30/30. Until and unless there are FAR more fundamental changes to the nature of the relationships of the league, the thing to watch far more closely is "which markets can this league retain, which markets can they add, and is there any more dancing we have to do if the AHL _does_ poach the leases in some of our current markets".

 

[mfrerkes]

Would easily bet there won't remain 28 as is after this season(meaning some teams folding)

I have to agree with this. It was surprising to me that all 7 remaining CHL teams were accepted by the league. Some of those teams weren't self-sufficient in the CHL, so I'm having difficulty imagining how they'll suddenly turn it around in the ECHL.

Also, can somebody tell me how Elmira will exist in the long-term?

 

[speedrissr]

Until (and unless) the ECHL passes some kind of by-law requiring one (and only one) NHL/AHL affiliation, the idea of 30/30/30 remains only the sort of OCD obsession that insists that the NHL _must_ be expanding to 32 teams because the divisions are "uneven", even despite quotes from Bettman himself saying "we won't expand just for someone's idea of symmetry".

My advice for watchers is to stop obsessing about 30/30/30. Until and unless there are FAR more fundamental changes to the nature of the relationships of the league, the thing to watch far more closely is "which markets can this league retain, which markets can they add, and is there any more dancing we have to do if the AHL _does_ poach the leases in some of our current markets".

^ This.

Al?

RLR

 

[mk80]

I would love to see the ECHL have a single affiliation policy someday. And I would say out of the current franchises in the league the ones with the most probability to fold after some time are Elmira, Brampton, and Wheeling (and Las Vegas). However I could see those franchise licenses being bought and transferred to cities such as Peoria, Houston (with a different arena) or Norfolk if the AHL leaves there. Those places I could hold an ECHL franchise and two have in the past.


Also it looks like the ECHL integrated the CHL franchises into their website banner and directory. I don't know whether they're going to add them or not but all the affiliations for the CHL teams are listed as independent so maybe the with the move any of the ones that were affiliated going into the season lost those since NHL teams had previously already had affiliates in the ECHL. The only exception are the Mavericks who have their Chicago Wolves affiliation listed.

 

[MiamiHockey]

I would love to see the ECHL have a single affiliation policy someday. And I would say out of the current franchises in the league the ones with the most probability to fold after some time are Elmira, Brampton, and Wheeling (and Las Vegas). However I could see those franchise licenses being bought and transferred to cities such as Peoria, Houston (with a different arena) or Norfolk if the AHL leaves there. Those places I could hold an ECHL franchise and two have in the past.

Your assessment of Elmira, Brampton, and Wheeling folding is based on what, exactly?
Attendance?

Elmira is now affiliated with Buffalo and Rochester, which is ideal given their location. If Brampton affiliates with Toronto, it would be very unlikely for them to fold.

 

[Kapn Kaveman]

Affiliations

Anything contractual that was written on a piece of paper that had Central Hockey League as its header was null and void when the CHL teams joined the ECHL. Basically all 7 teams quit/left the CHL and went to the ECHL as expansion/new teams. Any previous contacts, including affiliations, are null and void.