Easy Stanley Cup win for Tampa?

[ViD]

Does Stamkos even want to play ? Dress him, he’s gotta be close to returning

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

If tampa wins it they haven't had an easy road to get to this point. Lost in 2015 finals. Then lost a couple of few times in the Conference Finals after that. Swept a couple times since 2014. I mean they have had quite a road to get here. Hoping they can get it done this time because its been painful endings to our seasons. Covid cup or not, this one means a lot to them and our fanbase. I dont care who doesn't think its a legitimate cup. For us in tampa we want it. Hope this is the year!

Absolutely brilliant post. Not a Bolts fan but yes, this bunch of really great players had really bad performances in past Playoffs and their retribution is due.

 

[Go Bolts]

Does Stamkos even want to play ? Dress him, he’s gotta be close to returning

At this point, it seems Stamkos has only been a decoy.

 

[Leksand]

If tampa wins it they haven't had an easy road to get to this point. Lost in 2015 finals. Then lost a couple of few times in the Conference Finals after that. Swept a couple times since 2014. I mean they have had quite a road to get here. Hoping they can get it done this time because its been painful endings to our seasons. Covid cup or not, this one means a lot to them and our fanbase. I dont care who doesn't think its a legitimate cup. For us in tampa we want it. Hope this is the year!

Yes, and that applies to any team. This cup will count, it will. It will literally be edged in the cup. Say Islanders win it it all - anyone think the “Trotz two cups in three years with two different teams” narrative would not be part of his legacy? Of course not. Likewise, if eg Hedman dominates and Tampa wins, anyone would be able to credibly say - yes he’s good but he just couldn’t deliver when it mattered. Of course not. These playoffs are for the Stanley Cup, make no mistake about it.

 

[Master P]

I'm surprised this thread is still up tbh.

 

[Leksand]

I'm surprised this thread is still up tbh.

Let me toss myself in the meta debate and say - agree

 

[North Country]

I’ll preach again.
Tampa has been a dominate regular season team and would flop in the much more physical playoffs because they were tiny. They got bigger this season and it’s paying dividends.
Huge correlation with the bigger teams in the league and success in the playoffs when you look at the size charts over the last few years. The playoffs are a different animal and the head offices are taking notice.

The small teams in the league don’t stand a chance in the playoff level of physicality.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Just end the playoffs and give the Cup to Tampa. Put this puppy out of its misery and let's have the draft already.

 

[flying squirrel]

If tampa wins it they haven't had an easy road to get to this point. Lost in 2015 finals. Then lost a couple of few times in the Conference Finals after that. Swept a couple times since 2014. I mean they have had quite a road to get here. Hoping they can get it done this time because its been painful endings to our seasons. Covid cup or not, this one means a lot to them and our fanbase. I dont care who doesn't think its a legitimate cup. For us in tampa we want it. Hope this is the year!

So true, and if this Lightning bunch ever got that monkey off-their-backs, who knows???

I laughed when I first saw this thread because nothing ever comes easy for this Lightning bunch, ever!!! I wouldn't know how to react if Lightning weren't having issues come playoff time and it would feel weird if things went smoothly. Anyone who has followed Lightning's journey these last 4-6 years knows how unfortunate events have derailed them at the worst times. Easy, hahahaaha......... There is some light this time around though. The Lightnings EFC opponent is a very solid club but they don't have the stacked rosters the Penguins and Caps had in 2016 & 2018. Still, the Lightning will have to beat 2 very solid clubs to reach their goal. They'll need great play from the whole team if they want the needed 6 wins to raise "The Stanley Cup"

 

[flying squirrel]

I’ll preach again.
Tampa has been a dominate regular season team and would flop in the much more physical playoffs because they were tiny. They got bigger this season and it’s paying dividends.
Huge correlation with the bigger teams in the league and success in the playoffs when you look at the size charts over the last few years. The playoffs are a different animal and the head offices are taking notice.

The small teams in the league don’t stand a chance in the playoff level of physicality.

So Bishop and Hedman are tiny, how do you explain their injuries in playoffs?
Sometimes, just rotten timing comes into play and not the narratives society seems to grasp at. Plus, Johnson getting his wrist slashed by Keith has nothing to do with size (Opponent took out hottest player, it happens). Most NHL players would've had a wrist injury, no mater size, after such a powerful bush-league blow like that. Right?

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

Would prefer if this thread just disappeared.

 

[PJ817]

Just end the playoffs and give the Cup to Tampa. Put this puppy out of its misery and let's have the draft already.

I don't venture out of my safe haven very often (Tampa threads) but ... to be quite frank, I'd rather watch these guys earn it so that I can properly drink myself into a stupor while cheering wildly and driving madly (with DD) up 275 to greet the team at the airport.

Whereupon, driving to Amalie I will whack my loud, annoying thunder clappers until the wee balls fall off, my signs are trashed & voice hoarse with a weary head in elated state of utter joy.

The years of playoff despair relieved of their gloomy misery. All that pent up frustration, anger, hurt, sadness... I almost sound like a Caps fan

But we have games to win before any of that can happen. #GoBolts

 

[Henkka]

When we start talking about easy wins, Murphy's law comes and you realize Hedman, Kucherov, Stamkos and Point are all out for injures.

Of course they are the first favourite if staying healthy. Most rest between series etc. Advantages.

 

[North Country]

So Bishop and Hedman are tiny, how do you explain their injuries in playoffs?
Sometimes, just rotten timing comes into play and not the narratives society seems to grasp at. Plus, Johnson getting his wrist slashed by Keith has nothing to do with size (Opponent took out hottest player, it happens). Most NHL players would've had a wrist injury, no mater size, after such a powerful bush-league blow like that. Right?

You’re not understanding.

Tampa was the smallest team in the league by far just two years ago and they’re now the 7th heaviest. They would dominate in the lower contact regular season and then flop in the playoffs when things got physical.

The biggest teams height/weight are the ones advancing the last few years and it’s no coincidence.

Cooper made it clear they had to get way bigger in his interview at the draft. They sure did!

 

[notDatsyuk]

While I expect Tampa to win, I wouldn't call it 'easy'.

The last three games certainly haven't been easy.

 

[dlawong]

Not if Dallas keeps getting those lucky bounces.

 

[DFC]

You’re not understanding.

Tampa was the smallest team in the league by far just two years ago and they’re now the 7th heaviest. They would dominate in the lower contact regular season and then flop in the playoffs when things got physical.

The biggest teams height/weight are the ones advancing the last few years and it’s no coincidence.

Cooper made it clear they had to get way bigger in his interview at the draft. They sure did!

That was always the narrative, but never quite true.

You know what the biggest difference this year might be? A healthy Ondrej Palat. Our stars have been shut down in past playoffs, particularly in the biggest moments. That's not happening right now, and I don't think it's a coincidence that our stars are playing with Ondrej Palat.

You can point to size and whatnot, but our defense has always been big, and the guys who are carrying are offense aren't new to the team, nor do they play with guys new to the team. Having big bodies on the bench helps when games get out of hand, for sure, and I think that's something Maroon, in particular, brings to the table. But make no mistake, this has been all about Point, Kucherov, and Hedman.

 

[North Country]

That was always the narrative, but never quite true.

You know what the biggest difference this year might be? A healthy Ondrej Palat. Our stars have been shut down in past playoffs, particularly in the biggest moments. That's not happening right now, and I don't think it's a coincidence that our stars are playing with Ondrej Palat.

You can point to size and whatnot, but our defense has always been big, and the guys who are carrying are offense aren't new to the team, nor do they play with guys new to the team. Having big bodies on the bench helps when games get out of hand, for sure, and I think that's something Maroon, in particular, brings to the table. But make no mistake, this has been all about Point, Kucherov, and Hedman.

Nope.

unstoppable in the regular season to most floppable when in the playoffs... They knew they had to get bigger for the playoffs and did. The smallest team in the NHL just two years ago and now the seventh biggest.

Look up the last three years of sizing up the nhl (Biggest nhl teams) articles and the correlation will become very obvious.

 

[DFC]

Nope.

unstoppable in the regular season to most floppable when in the playoffs... They knew they had to get bigger for the playoffs and did. The smallest team in the NHL just two years ago and now the seventh biggest.

Look up the last three years of sizing up the nhl (Biggest nhl teams) articles and the correlation will become very obvious.

And that's why Brayden Point and Nikita Kucherov are tearing things down? Because Pat Maroon is on the 4th line?

I think the bigger factor is PAlat is healthy. He plays a great gritty game, but he does it in the top six, and it opens up the ice for our stars. Point being healthy helps too.

But also, it's not like this is our first long run. We took two Cup champions to seven games in the past four years, and made the SCF in 2015.

 

[kabidjan18]

And that's why Brayden Point and Nikita Kucherov are tearing things down? Because Pat Maroon is on the 4th line?

I think the bigger factor is PAlat is healthy. He plays a great gritty game, but he does it in the top six, and it opens up the ice for our stars. Point being healthy helps too.

But also, it's not like this is our first long run. We took two Cup champions to seven games in the past four years, and made the SCF in 2015.

Well there were 5 acquisitions so let's remember them all.

Coleman for a first and Foote
Goodrow for a first
Zach Bogosian who was waived
Luke Schenn signed to a 1 year deal
Patrick Maroon signed to a one year deal.

They way hockey works isn't that the first line is scoring ergo the first line is solely or even primarily responsible for the win. Sure, it helps, but hockey is comprised of jobs, and everyone must do their job to win.

Alternatively, you have Stephens, you have Verhaeghe, maybe a few other defensively irresponsible youngsters out there. It's not their fault, defense is the part of the game that takes the longest to learn. But maybe there's a slip up, Islanders score two goals. Suddenly, they decide to kill the game, they collapse back into their own zone and play the 6 man PK until they run out the clock. The game is very different then. Which isn't to downplay Palat. I'm a big fan. But you underestimate the impact that having a good bottom 6 players. If you have a good bottom 6, your bottom 6 keeps their top 6 scoreless, you score the first goal at some point in the game, maybe even the 2nd or 3rd period, suddenly they're chasing the game. They can't sit back in their zone and play 6 man PK. Then there's a lot of open ice because their defensemen are jumping really high in the zone trying to create offense, the point men for the other team are pinching (can be forwards or defensemen), and suddenly that's a lot of room for your top 6 guys and they come in and score goals to ice the game.

And someone who is only concerned with points and not the system they come from will go "oh, these players or these lines were the ones who scored so they're the ones who mattered." Well, it's not so simple. Pittsburgh has a pretty good top 6. Edmonton has a pretty good top 6. Toronto has a pretty good top 6. Those teams didn't even make the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Tampa is about to be in the Stanley Cup Final. And maybe you're like "oh, well Point and Kucherov are better than Matthews, McDavid, Draisaitl, Crosby, Malkin, Guentzel, Marner, list goes on." I don't even have to argue with you on that. I can give you that and say "maybe even if we say they are better. But are they Stanley Cup Final vs. Stanley Cup Qualifier Elimination better?" Those teams also had incredible Point, Kucherov level players. They didn't make the top 16. Tampa is in the top 2. Perhaps the game is not as simple as that.

 

[TSA0402]

Issue I hate to admit.. Dallas has the dominant defense goaltending with solid top line that can cause nightmares for teams looking for an easy win.

 

[DFC]

Well there were 5 acquisitions so let's remember them all.

Coleman for a first and Foote
Goodrow for a first
Zach Bogosian who was waived
Luke Schenn signed to a 1 year deal
Patrick Maroon signed to a one year deal.

They way hockey works isn't that the first line is scoring ergo the first line is solely or even primarily responsible for the win. Sure, it helps, but hockey is comprised of jobs, and everyone must do their job to win.

Alternatively, you have Stephens, you have Verhaeghe, maybe a few other defensively irresponsible youngsters out there. It's not their fault, defense is the part of the game that takes the longest to learn. But maybe there's a slip up, Islanders score two goals. Suddenly, they decide to kill the game, they collapse back into their own zone and play the 6 man PK until they run out the clock. The game is very different then. Which isn't to downplay Palat. I'm a big fan. But you underestimate the impact that having a good bottom 6 players. If you have a good bottom 6, your bottom 6 keeps their top 6 scoreless, you score the first goal at some point in the game, maybe even the 2nd or 3rd period, suddenly they're chasing the game. They can't sit back in their zone and play 6 man PK. Then there's a lot of open ice because their defensemen are jumping really high in the zone trying to create offense, the point men for the other team are pinching (can be forwards or defensemen), and suddenly that's a lot of room for your top 6 guys and they come in and score goals to ice the game.

And someone who is only concerned with points and not the system they come from will go "oh, these players or these lines were the ones who scored so they're the ones who mattered." Well, it's not so simple. Pittsburgh has a pretty good top 6. Edmonton has a pretty good top 6. Toronto has a pretty good top 6. Those teams didn't even make the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Tampa is about to be in the Stanley Cup Final. And maybe you're like "oh, well Point and Kucherov are better than Matthews, McDavid, Draisaitl, Crosby, Malkin, Guentzel, Marner, list goes on." I don't even have to argue with you on that. I can give you that and say "maybe even if we say they are better. But are they Stanley Cup Final vs. Stanley Cup Qualifier Elimination better?" Those teams also had incredible Point, Kucherov level players. They didn't make the top 16. Tampa is in the top 2. Perhaps the game is not as simple as that.

I don't think you've actually watched a TB game.

The extra size helped against CBJ. And it's been nice to have. Has it been the key factor? No. The key factor has been Victor Hedman being healthy, Brayden Point not needing double hip surgery, and ondrej Palat looking like the ondrej Palat of 2015 (healthy).

Bogosian's been very good, but, in terms of size, our defense has always been big.

 

[Sky04]

You’re not understanding.

Tampa was the smallest team in the league by far just two years ago and they’re now the 7th heaviest. They would dominate in the lower contact regular season and then flop in the playoffs when things got physical.

The biggest teams height/weight are the ones advancing the last few years and it’s no coincidence.

Cooper made it clear they had to get way bigger in his interview at the draft. They sure did!

Last I checked they beat Boston and took Washington to game 7 2 years ago. They got some gritty guys and upgraded their defense they didn't get "bigger." They were not the smallest team in the league 2 years ago and did not suddenly become "bigger" with those players.

In: Goodrow(6'2), Coleman (5'11), Bogosian (6'3), Schenn (6'2), Maroon (6'2)

Out: Miller (6'1), Girardi (6'3), Kunitz (6'0), Coburn(6'5), Stralman (5'11)

Everyone else is the same.

 

[kabidjan18]

I don't think you've actually watched a TB game.

The extra size helped against CBJ. And it's been nice to have. Has it been the key factor? No. The key factor has been Victor Hedman being healthy, Brayden Point not needing double hip surgery, and ondrej Palat looking like the ondrej Palat of 2015 (healthy).

Bogosian's been very good, but, in terms of size, our defense has always been big.

There's this constant attempt by people against the theory, and to be absolutely fair I think that's because people who propagate the theory do so poorly, to ridicule the importance of "size" or "grit." I think that misses the point. It's not about size. It's not about grit. It's about defense. It's about playing responsible system hockey. It's about players who can do all the basic things. That includes finish checks, hitting players, bodying puck-carriers off the puck, but it also includes blocking shots, active sticks to steal pucks, deflecting passes, lifting sticks, it includes battling for position in front of their net, it includes clearing space in front of your net for your goalie to have vision, it includes clearing pucks off the crease. It's about getting bodies in sticks in seams to discourage passes, to discourage shots. In all those things, size helps. Grit helps. But it's not reducible to size or grit. A player like Blake Coleman is 5'11" 200+ pounds. He's not small, he's not necessarily the biggest guy though, he certainly doesn't epitomize "size". But what he, and Goodrow, and Maroon, and these other players who you estimate to have little or no value bring to the table collectively is immeasurable. Now has sheer size helped? Yeah it's helped. It's helped tremendously even in this Islanders series, the Islanders have largely been unable to body the lightning around. And it definitely paid dividends vs. a relatively small Boston team.

But look around you. Look at the other teams still in the playoffs. Look at the teams even who made it to the second round. It is far more important to have a good team than to have a good player. Even now, Tampa is missing a key player or key players, depending on Point's status after the Pelech hit, that hasn't stopped them. Tampa is a good team now, even without Stamkos. And if Stamkos were to return but instead Point was gone, or Stamkos returned but Kucherov was gone, the team would be fine. Because a system isn't about a player. It's about the ability for a group of individuals to execute a concept. Tampa is in the final, few people are surprised. But most people I've seen who have this top-heavy concept of hockey around these boards have had a large reaction of shock, as teams like Dallas, and Vegas, and New York make the conference finals. Tampa is in the final, and not Toronto, or Pittsburgh, or Edmonton, or pick your other high-octane scoring machine, not because they have star players. Plenty of teams have star players. They're in the final because they can execute good system hockey.

 

[Aoko]

Bruins got reverse sweeped and then won the cup the next year. Bolts got sweeped and won the cup the next year*

*possible

Sure would be poetic.