Post-Game Talk: Eastern Conference Title Defense Day 1: Devils @ Rangers

[Doctyl]

your boy zucc hasnt exactly beat anybody up either

Kreider has to go run and injure niemi then kick John Scotts ass to earn wolf's respect

zucc has to do this

and hes GOAT

Theres clearly an agenda here

 

[Synergy27]

Do you even know what running a goalie means? This is running a goalie:



Kreider getting tripped, pushed, and shoved into goalies is not the same thing.

Huge pet peeve of mine. Goalies out of the crease, playing as a defenseman would with the puck, should be fair game. Stay in the crease.

I'm actually shocked that the NHL doesn't view this as a potential rule change. They're all about increasing offense. They designed the dumb trapezoid to try to do it. How about just "nudging" goalies to stay in their crease by making them fair game instead of these gimmicks. Goalies playing the puck and being immune to contact is unfair to skaters and easy to take advantage of. Dumb.

 

[Vitto79]

Just saw the game, a few thoughts.

Good game for the opener of preseason. You can tell NJ have a ton of vets and many of them unsigned, that team has been skating hard and played real well.

So did we.

Hayes was awsome. I love him already. Ready? Maybe not, maybe some time in HFD wouldn't hurt him. But he will become a valuble player for us.

Miller is a good player and he was a good player last season. He is ready now and will mature a lot over the coming years. I am not sure who I want playing RW with Miller and Hags though, don't think Malone necessarily is a great fit with them. Cally would have been perfect. Fast? Haggerty? Down the line that is. We will see. Glass? I don't mid Glass, he does his job. Some other things aren't pretty, but he does his job. Malone goes a bit too much to the net for my liking, you don't want Hags/JT being forced to pay attention to being the third guy back all the time...

People crap on John Moore. One thing. AV wants his Ds to move the puck. A defenseman can play three ways in a sense:
1. Move the puck and never fail.
2. Move the puck and fail at times.
3. Not move the puck and play a risk free game.

What way do the Moore haters think AV want Moore to play? It's down to 2 or 3. This is a half reject making what 900k per year on a 3rd pairing. AV will of course pick 2. Should we trash him because he fails at times? WHY? I mean, I never saw anyone trash Dorsett for not playing like Zucc with the puck, but we should trash Moore for not being able to move the puck like McD? Don't make sense.

Ray's kids moves their feet well.

Kreider hopefully is going to have a big year.

I thought D Boyle was awsome. So valuble offensively.

I know it was Calgary but Stempniak was a top 6 for them. He can play with Miller and Hagelin. I'd go Glass, Moore and Malone 4th line. Grind it out

 

[Kovalev27]

Hayes looks very raw to me and has a long way to go with his skating IMO. Looks like a very heady player slick hands but his skating isn't NHL ready. Some time in hartford definitely needed but he'll be good for us.

Miller has been best player in camp thus far from all accounts and the scrimmage and game last night. He's gotta be a lock for that 3C spot

Stempniak is definitley making this team. Malone prob will too unfortunately but I think he does over any other kid

 

[Charlie Conway]

Hayes looks very raw to me and has a long way to go with his skating IMO. Looks like a very heady player slick hands but his skating isn't NHL ready. Some time in hartford definitely needed but he'll be good for us.

Miller has been best player in camp thus far from all accounts and the scrimmage and game last night. He's gotta be a lock for that 3C spot

Stempniak is definitley making this team. Malone prob will too unfortunately but I think he does over any other kid

Malone looked good in front of the crease. Skating looked good enough.

I said it before and I'll say it again. Have Malone in front on one powerplay and Kreider in front on the other. Two big bodies in front for screens, deflections, or stuff-ins.

I'd like to see Fast or Haggerty make the team, but there's just no space this year. Both look pretty close to NHL-ready if not already.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Hayes looks very raw to me and has a long way to go with his skating IMO. Looks like a very heady player slick hands but his skating isn't NHL ready. Some time in hartford definitely needed but he'll be good for us.

Miller has been best player in camp thus far from all accounts and the scrimmage and game last night. He's gotta be a lock for that 3C spot

Stempniak is definitley making this team. Malone prob will too unfortunately but I think he does over any other kid

There were some nights where Hayes deceptively broke free with the puck and went on to the races.

There were other nights where he looked about as fast as Taylor Pyatt.

Go figure.

He has more to work on than just his skating. Consistency. Using his body better. Developing a mean streak.

 

[Levitate]

Players very rarely develop a mean streak. They either gave it or don't. Kreider is really the only one I've seen do it

Also I want a fourth line that can spend a lot of time in the offensive zone and I don't think a glass Moore Malone line can do that. glass doesn't have the hands for cycling and puck retrieval and Malone is going to be too slow for it I think

 

[RGY]

Players very rarely develop a mean streak. They either gave it or don't. Kreider is really the only one I've seen do it

Also I want a fourth line that can spend a lot of time in the offensive zone and I don't think a glass Moore Malone line can do that. glass doesn't have the hands for cycling and puck retrieval and Malone is going to be too slow for it I think

I think the merry go round ride for Kreider forced him to take his game and demeanor to the next level in the NHL. You certainly did not see him play this aggressive at BC. His defensive game, while not great, has improved. He looks more focused and attentative in his own end than when he first came up in the playoffs. He realized his size, strength, and speed could be a force out on the ice and that only he can make it happen. And along with it came a little bit of a mean streak.

Also I think Malone makes this team. We dont have that size. He may be slow but he goes to the net and he is good around it in tight. He is physical and will stick up for his teammates. He brings both offense and the physical play. The Rangers could use that. I think AV is willing to sacrifice speed on the 4th line to have that in the lineup and on the 2nd PP unit.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Huge pet peeve of mine. Goalies out of the crease, playing as a defenseman would with the puck, should be fair game. Stay in the crease.

I'm actually shocked that the NHL doesn't view this as a potential rule change. They're all about increasing offense. They designed the dumb trapezoid to try to do it. How about just "nudging" goalies to stay in their crease by making them fair game instead of these gimmicks. Goalies playing the puck and being immune to contact is unfair to skaters and easy to take advantage of. Dumb.

I thin incidental contact with the goalie outside of the crease and bumping are fine. But lining him up and finishing a check on him as if he's a defenseman isn't right. They can't make that okay, goalies will be getting their bells rung every game.

Not to mention goalie masks aren't the same as player helmets. Sure, neither can truly prevent concussions, but have you ever worn a goalie mask? They're very thin (compared to player helmets) all around and a hard check with some head contact that would be okay to a skater, will knock the goalies helmet off and he could get really hurt.

I sure as hell don't want someone lining up Hank and hurting him just because Hank came out behind the net to stop a puck for the D, and then it being completely okay because he wasn't in the crease.

Remember Lucic on Miller? I don't care if Miller is out of the crease, that's not kosher.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Wat your guys opinion on Jesper Fast's training camp so far? Idk why but I reLly wanna root for the kid but I can't cuz I never notice him out there. Everyone talks about how fast and heady he is but he doesn't reLly seem to use it in my opinion. I didn't even notice him until he scored that goal and looking at his highlights on YouTube and most of his goals seemed to be cleaning up on simple rebounds. Does he has offensive talent that I'm just not seeing or something? Just wondering. Let me know wat u think

 

[AKrangerfan]

I can't believe their are people talking about Kreider "running goalies" The videos are out there, he was tripped. Should be easy to understand that.

Also why is Kosta picked as a 7th D on so many lists? He will be the first D shipped out, or should be.

I am very excited to see what kind of a player Hayes develops into. A few years down the road he is going to be one of our top players. Can't believe we got him for nothing basically.

 

[chosen]

I think that this is one of the relatively rare cases where fans of a particular team have a better understanding of a player's situation due to watching that player day in, day out, than fans of other teams. As opposed to pure homerism.

The established pattern is aggressive play combined with both crashing the net and the speed to get behind defenders. He's definitely chippy in terms of initiating and responding to physicality, but I don't think that extends to the times he has hit goaltenders.

In my opinion I've yet to see a replay of Kreider running into a goaltender at speed that wasn't (apparently) caused by contact from a defender who had been beaten and was doing anything he could to upset Kreider's balance/shot. It works, but an off-balance Kreider is a very dangerous thing, being both one of the fastest and largest players in the NHL.

I think the takeaway here is not "Kreider needs to change how he plays around the net." I think it's "Defenders need to stop taking swipes at Kreider after they have no chance of catching him."

We all agree that Kreider is incredibly strong on his skates, yet he seems unable to avoid contact with goalies. I think he passively but consciously causes this. After it happens 3 or 4 times you can't help but see a pattern. Whether this is dirty is debatable.

One thing for sure is that if an opposing player ever hurts Hank in a similar manner, everyone here will howl in unison against that player.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Quite happy with what I'm reading about the news kids on the block here fellas!

Looks like Miller is doing exactly what we were hoping for. I think is time that he matured and made that all important step to fortify himself on the NHL roster. We seriously need that C depth.

Haven't watched the first ps game, would have loved to see some Hayes. Isn't he a winger? I fully understand we lack centermen and obviously he's trusted enough to play C. Depending on the C situation I'd rather have Hayes in the NHL, although it certainly would be better for him to get some AHL first.



Ps.: Nobody would fight Zucc. See the look on his face, that psycho stare? Yup, that's the perfect example of the bully rushing the small kid, small kid goes pyscho stare, bully says ... "nuh, **** that"


Pps.: God ... I can't believe there are still the same discussions here. The Kreider-Price incident ... the Zucc-hate (or rather the indecisiveness) ... seriously people?

 

[SixGoalieSystem]

Wat your guys opinion on Jesper Fast's training camp so far? Idk why but I reLly wanna root for the kid but I can't cuz I never notice him out there. Everyone talks about how fast and heady he is but he doesn't reLly seem to use it in my opinion. I didn't even notice him until he scored that goal and looking at his highlights on YouTube and most of his goals seemed to be cleaning up on simple rebounds. Does he has offensive talent that I'm just not seeing or something? Just wondering. Let me know wat u think

I disagree. Fast may not be flashy and I don't think he has huge offensive upside, but he has certainly had a very good camp so far. To me, he looks like he's very close to being NHL ready and he's probably an early callup if we see injuries or poor performance in the bottom six. If he can do what he's been doing for the remainder of camp.

Pps.: God ... I can't believe there are still the same discussions here. The Kreider-Price incident ... the Zucc-hate (or rather the indecisiveness) ... seriously people?

Where are you seeing Zucc hate? All I'm seeing is a poster being made fun of for calling Kreider "soft" for fighting "non fighter" Phaneurf and MZA a tough guy for giving GP the evil eye.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Where are you seeing Zucc hate? All I'm seeing is a poster being made fun of for calling Kreider "soft" for fighting "non fighter" Phaneurf and MZA a tough guy for giving GP the evil eye.

Well, as you see in the parenthesis, I actually meant so say indecisiveness. So yeah, my fault for writing hate. Just got that wibe from one post that got quoted. Zucc is absolutely fine, and that's why I was kind of wondering there still be guys doubting him. Heart beats anything, we all know that, and Zucc certainly got that.

Also went on a little research and I may have to take back the lack of center depth comment too.

 

[eco's bones]

I can't believe their are people talking about Kreider "running goalies" The videos are out there, he was tripped. Should be easy to understand that.

Also why is Kosta picked as a 7th D on so many lists? He will be the first D shipped out, or should be.

I am very excited to see what kind of a player Hayes develops into. A few years down the road he is going to be one of our top players. Can't believe we got him for nothing basically.

The reason all this nonsense with Kreider started up is because a poster here went over to the Devil's boards and many of their posters apparently were jumping on the 'Kredier runs goalies' bandwagon--because of his getting knocked into Kinkaid the other night and getting tagged with a penalty. It was inevitable--so many Devils fans hate the Rangers and will look for just about any excuse to add fuel to their hatred.

To me anyway Kreider has yet to run a goalie. What seems to happen is either A) he uses his speed to break through or around a defense and gets taken down as he beelines towards the enemy goal and collides with the goalie as was the case with Price and Fleury in last year's playoffs or B) he's around the crease area and gets knocked into the goalie by a opposing defending player.

His other controversial collision with a goalie last year was Craig Anderson. After that game though Senators defenseman Marc Methot admitted he'd tripped Kreider into his own goalie.

Last night's collision with Kinkaid really didn't amount to much apart from the penalty to Kreider. Again he's being knocked into the goalie by the defending team. Should not have been a call but that's the price that has to be paid now and again if you want players going to the other team's goal.

 

[nyr2k2]

Well, as you see in the parenthesis, I actually meant so say indecisiveness. So yeah, my fault for writing hate. Just got that wibe from one post that got quoted. Zucc is absolutely fine, and that's why I was kind of wondering there still be guys doubting him. Heart beats anything, we all know that, and Zucc certainly got that.

Also went on a little research and I may have to take back the lack of center depth comment too.

I think everyone here LOVES Zucc. However there are a few people that seem to place being fans of Zuccarello before fans of the Rangers, and think he's better at everything than everyone else on the team.

 

[SixGoalieSystem]

Well, as you see in the parenthesis, I actually meant so say indecisiveness. So yeah, my fault for writing hate. Just got that wibe from one post that got quoted. Zucc is absolutely fine, and that's why I was kind of wondering there still be guys doubting him. Heart beats anything, we all know that, and Zucc certainly got that.

Also went on a little research and I may have to take back the lack of center depth comment too.

I think people were just making fun of the idea of Zucc as the deity of toughness and Kreider as the big softie who goes around running goalies.

 

[slipknottin]

I think people were just making fun of the idea of Zucc as the deity of toughness and Kreider as the big softie who goes around running goalies.

It is amusing.

 

[eco's bones]

We all agree that Kreider is incredibly strong on his skates, yet he seems unable to avoid contact with goalies. I think he passively but consciously causes this. After it happens 3 or 4 times you can't help but see a pattern. Whether this is dirty is debatable.

One thing for sure is that if an opposing player ever hurts Hank in a similar manner, everyone here will howl in unison against that player.

I really don't get your reasoning here.

Last year he collides with Craig Anderson. Marc Methot admits after the game he tripped Chris into his own goalie.

Vs. Pittsburgh in the playoffs he breaks through the defense. He's hit from behind by a Pittsburgh defender and driven into Fleury and as it happens the puck never leaves his stick until he shoots it a split second before he collides with Fleury and the puck goes in the net. He's not trying to run over Fleury--he's trying to score a goal. I'm sorry but that is just a hockey play.

And against Montreal with Price--Canadiens fans don't seem to want to talk about Emelin's stick bending around his ankle as he dives desperately to hook down Chris and as Chris is going down he shoots it high and wide. He's not trying to hurt Price--again he's trying to score a goal. Another hockey play.

To really run a goalie there needs to be some malice aforethought. There's no malice. They are hockey plays. Kreider is kind of a freak of nature--a very big and powerful power forward who can skate like a gazelle and that's not a combination that comes along very frequently. Asking him not to play to his strengths would be ridiculous. We don't ask Eric Gelinas or PK Subban not to shoot the puck so hard. WTF! That's our ****ing problem when we play those teams. We don't ask Milan Lucic not to hit so hard or venture into our crease area either.

And by the way Lundqvist has been run over plenty of times by opposing players in various kinds of situations.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Just saw the game, a few thoughts.

Good game for the opener of preseason. You can tell NJ have a ton of vets and many of them unsigned, that team has been skating hard and played real well.

So did we.

Hayes was awsome. I love him already. Ready? Maybe not, maybe some time in HFD wouldn't hurt him. But he will become a valuble player for us.

Miller is a good player and he was a good player last season. He is ready now and will mature a lot over the coming years. I am not sure who I want playing RW with Miller and Hags though, don't think Malone necessarily is a great fit with them. Cally would have been perfect. Fast? Haggerty? Down the line that is. We will see. Glass? I don't mid Glass, he does his job. Some other things aren't pretty, but he does his job. Malone goes a bit too much to the net for my liking, you don't want Hags/JT being forced to pay attention to being the third guy back all the time...

People crap on John Moore. One thing. AV wants his Ds to move the puck. A defenseman can play three ways in a sense:
1. Move the puck and never fail.
2. Move the puck and fail at times.
3. Not move the puck and play a risk free game.

What way do the Moore haters think AV want Moore to play? It's down to 2 or 3. This is a half reject making what 900k per year on a 3rd pairing. AV will of course pick 2. Should we trash him because he fails at times? WHY? I mean, I never saw anyone trash Dorsett for not playing like Zucc with the puck, but we should trash Moore for not being able to move the puck like McD? Don't make sense.

Ray's kids moves their feet well.

Kreider hopefully is going to have a big year.

I thought D Boyle was awsome. So valuble offensively.

thank you. a voice of reason and intelligence.

the kid played with a garbage partner.

hes 23

hes doing what the coaches ask him to do which is push pucks and use his skating to create. hes all over the ice and hes killed for doing exactly what he is doing. hes not playing safe. thats not what the staff is looking for him to do.

he has a puck glance off his skate and that never happens to any other dmen. overall, i think he played well for the 1st pre season game. as well as marc staal atleast.

mclirath is treated like hes made of balsa wood and feathers. im sure when he plays hell be given enormous latitude for any mistakes (bad luck), errors (not his fault) or screw ups (john moore caused it) that he commits.

i read somewhere that moore played the most post season gmaes last year of any dman 23 yrs old or younger. valuable experience for a still pretty young player.

john moore is the new whipping boy here. i just dont get the hate.

 

[Championship*]

I really don't get your reasoning here.

Last year he collides with Craig Anderson. Marc Methot admits after the game he tripped Chris into his own goalie.

Vs. Pittsburgh in the playoffs he breaks through the defense. He's hit from behind by a Pittsburgh defender and driven into Fleury and as it happens the puck never leaves his stick until he shoots it a split second before he collides with Fleury and the puck goes in the net. He's not trying to run over Fleury--he's trying to score a goal. I'm sorry but that is just a hockey play.

And against Montreal with Price--Canadiens fans don't seem to want to talk about Emelin's stick bending around his ankle as he dives desperately to hook down Chris and as Chris is going down he shoots it high and wide. He's not trying to hurt Price--again he's trying to score a goal. Another hockey play.

To really run a goalie there needs to be some malice aforethought. There's no malice. They are hockey plays. Kreider is kind of a freak of nature--a very big and powerful power forward who can skate like a gazelle and that's not a combination that comes along very frequently. Asking him not to play to his strengths would be ridiculous. We don't ask Eric Gelinas or PK Subban not to shoot the puck so hard. WTF! That's our ****ing problem when we play those teams. We don't ask Milan Lucic not to hit so hard or venture into our crease area either.

And by the way Lundqvist has been run over plenty of times by opposing players in various kinds of situations.

What's the common factor with all these? A D man getting beat by Chris' speed and trying desperately to stop him.

 

[RGY]

I think John Moore will benefit from a full season playing next to Kevin Klein.

 

[Gardner McKay]

What's the common factor with all these? A D man getting beat by Chris' speed and trying desperately to stop him.

Unless they tell Kreider to slow down (which will really limit his effectiveness), this is going to be a continuous problem. It is what it is. It is not like he is doing it with malicious intent.

 

[Ola]

thank you. a voice of reason and intelligence.

the kid played with a garbage partner.

hes 23

hes doing what the coaches ask him to do which is push pucks and use his skating to create. hes all over the ice and hes killed for doing exactly what he is doing. hes not playing safe. thats not what the staff is looking for him to do.

he has a puck glance off his skate and that never happens to any other dmen. overall, i think he played well for the 1st pre season game. as well as marc staal atleast.

mclirath is treated like hes made of balsa wood and feathers. im sure when he plays hell be given enormous latitude for any mistakes (bad luck), errors (not his fault) or screw ups (john moore caused it) that he commits.

i read somewhere that moore played the most post season gmaes last year of any dman 23 yrs old or younger. valuable experience for a still pretty young player.

john moore is the new whipping boy here. i just dont get the hate.

Yeah, and its nothing new.

Moore is moving into the same position Malik was in. He was more or less someone nobody else wanted, but we played him on a top unit with Straka-Nyls-JJ, next to Rozsival. That unit did really well.

Malik however was asked to move the puck when he got it, and he of course failed from time to time on a regular basis. However, given that he played on an extreme puck possession unit (that unit must have had among the best possesssion numbers in modern time in this league, at least if we look at the samples from when they peaked), and along side the fact that it was a unit you definitely never wanted to play without the puck, from my point of view you can seriously question why Malik was booed like he was. He was doing what he was asked to do and was the best man for the job. Had he played another way the outcome would have been worse.