Early Norris trophy candidates?

[drktmplr12]

If people want to mention Hedman, then they need to mention Ekblad as well.

View attachment 399921

The numbers are similar. The biggest difference is...Hedman’s oZS is at 60%, Ekblad is at 42%. So Ekblad puts up similar, if not better stats, with 20% less offensive zone starts.

starts in defensive zone twice as often and GA is lower than all-unreal season he is having rn

 

[Beezeral]

I know it's going t bother a lot of people, but Quinn Hughes will be a finalist at a minimum.

Unless Vancouver miracles its way out of the basement, it will take a record setting year from Hughes to get a nomination.

 

[John Strachan]

Doughty plays against some of the worst offensive teams in the NHL on a regular basis. If we want to talk about how the North plays 0 defence and the offensive players should get an asterisk then let’s talk about a division where you could combine 4 teams top 6 forwards and probably not even come out with 1 that make another teams top line

Take a look at last year’s standings. Vegas, Colorado & St. Louis were all at the same level as Toronto, Vancouver & Edmonton. It’s more likely poor defense in the North division than a drop in scoring by Vegas & Colorado. And also the greater number of games.

Or to put it another way, how is it that the Senators have more GF than both Las Vegas & Colorado?

 

[Buck Naked]

Was people really sleeping this bad on Ekblad last year? He was an elite player in 5v5, just didn't get enough time on PP1 to shine in the scoring race. Glad to see people finally noticing how great he is.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Good to see Ekblad getting some nominations or honorable mentions.
He's turning into AP, his defense is getting better by the year and now his goal scoring is shining again with top PP minutes.

 

[jbeck5]

It's gotta be Josh. Even the NHL confirms it.

Josh Norris Stats and News

 

[NuxFan09]

Doughty has been the best defenseman this year SO far, and I am pretty confident in saying that.

Especially when you take everything into consideration. He's playing with a rookie partner and on a team that's trending in the right direction but is by no means elite.

Doughty leads the dmen on the Kings, in all catergories of ice time,( Even, PP, and PK) . How many other Norris contenders can say the same?

Oh and his stats are very similar to Hedman, despite being on a way worse team. Not that stats are everything.

Doughty has played really really well this year. Been dominant in both visible and subtle ways this year for the Kings.


What makes a defenseman worthy of the Norris can be a really interesting topic. I don't know if this place can every be mature enough to have a good discussion about though.


Other defenseman I have been impressed with.... Makar, McAvoy, Hedman, Faulk, Fox,

There are also some normal Norris contenders that have been a little disappointing so far this season.

Defenseman I want to see more of are.... Pionk, Nurse, and Ekblad.

I agree that Doughty is one of the top defensemen so far this year. Eye test AND metrics bear that out. People need to do their homework and see for themselves.

 

[North Cole]

I see all this bellyaching about "the Norris winner shouldn't be about points, it should be the guy who logs huge minutes, is trusted in crunch time for a good team and does everything on special teams". I am assuming this whole line of thinking is being brought up because of Makar and that is what is bothering people?

If so - then I'm not sure what Cale needs to do at this point since he's been averaging 26-27 minutes a night and is now a regular on the PK in addition to all the spectacular offensive, puck control and shot generation stuff he does.

Hedman, Makar and McAvoy are doing ALL the things for their team - how any of them can draw an ire for not being worth of what the Norris SHOULD be for is silly and just complaining for the sake of complaining. I think there's a great crop of all-around defensemen doing their thing this year - there's not going to be some "only puts up points and plays on one side of the ice" winner this season.

My money's still on Hedman FWIW.

No, this "bellyaching" has been coming up annually for a decade or more. It's been brought up for Karlsson, Burns, Carlson, etc. It's not some new thing to target Hughes and Makar.

 

[BKarchitect]

No, this "bellyaching" has been coming up annually for a decade or more. It's been brought up for Karlsson, Burns, Carlson, etc. It's not some new thing to target Hughes and Makar.

And I’m saying “how is it relevant” to any of the candidates being brought up seriously in this thread”? Because Herman, Doughty, Makar, McAvoy etc - none are offense *only* guys.

So why the complaining about how this years crop is shaping up?

 

[The Macho King]

Makar averages a minute of SH toi/game. He's fed a ton of EV and PP time.

This "plays in all situations" stuff should probably chill until he's not the third option to go over the boards for his handedness.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Makar averages a minute of SH toi/game. He's fed a ton of EV and PP time.

This "plays in all situations" stuff should probably chill until he's not the third option to go over the boards for his handedness.

You have a good point. Colorado fans, clear this up. Is Makar on your PK if everyone's healthy or is he only playing it because of injuries? It's less impressive if he's only a fill-in.

 

[North Cole]

And I’m saying “how is it relevant” to any of the candidates being brought up seriously in this thread”? Because Herman, Doughty, Makar, McAvoy etc - none are offense *only* guys.

So why the complaining about how this years crop is shaping up?

It's rarely ever relevant, just people that can't accept the NHL has shifted to getting offense out of the back end, so when they see high point totals they want to automatically discredit the player.

 

[BKarchitect]

It's rarely ever relevant, just people that can't accept the NHL has shifted to getting offense out of the back end, so when they see high point totals they want to automatically discredit the player.

Ok, I gotcha.

 

[North Cole]

Ok, I gotcha.

I would have Makar in my top 3, I'm just not sure how it shakes out right now because there is such a spread in games played across all teams. I'm slightly worried that if the NHL has to keep postponing games on the regular, not all divisions will get to the 56 game mark. Presently, the highest teams in the West for GP are almost at the bottom of GP for the North.

It hasn't been talked about much, but IMO there is some concern this can skew the award voting for these subjective awards (Hart, Norris, etc). Since playoff berths and games played are intradivisional, you don't need all the divisions to play the same number of games, only in comparison with the teams in your division. Right now it's not a super big deal, but if we get to a point where the North is playing game 56, and the West is at game 40-45, I'm not sure what they would do. It's unfair to let everyone make up 3 or 4 weeks of hockey, while the North teams sit at home, but those are enough games missing to really skew the aggregate stats like points, where even if Makar is PPG, he's 15 points behind.

Idk, just idle speculation. Maybe they will slow down the North schedule so we are still playing games while teams are making up games and have everyone finish at the same time?

 

[veganbruin]

I’ve always preferred my Norris winners to do it at both ends but that Makar is something special. He may skate better than just about anyone in the league.

Hedman is still prolly the best Dman in the NHL and McAvoy is a distant 2nd or 3rd.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

You have a good point. Colorado fans, clear this up. Is Makar on your PK if everyone's healthy or is he only playing it because of injuries? It's less impressive if he's only a fill-in.

He and Girard are the 2nd PK unit now with Graves and Toews as the 1st unit.


They started as injury/trade replacement to Cole and EJ but especially considering how dominant the PK has been since those two started playing on it, I suspect they continue to get bigger roles.

 

[BigHitter67]

I know it's going t bother a lot of people, but Quinn Hughes will be a finalist at a minimum.

So far, quarter of the way through the season ..he has ZERO chance. His coverage -or lack therof- on the 2nd goal last night is emblematic of his defensive deficiencies. My 12 yrold Dman son knows to keep an eye on the back door and poor Quinn looked to have zero clue he was there last night!! I know this will raise the ire of Canuck fans but the reality is , QUinn Hughes -and his bank account - are damn lucky there is something called a 'power play' in the game of hockey

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

They’re truly outliers. And if you look at their offensive production those years, you can still see it was clearly a factor.

What about last year then? What's your excuse for Josi getting it over Carlson despite Carlson putting up over a PPG and 10 more points then Josi?


The reality is, especially in today's game in order to be a truly high end Dman you have to be capable of generating offense for your team, no longer are Dmen in the league expected to just be big slow dummies who hit hard clear the crease and dump the puck out of the zone whenever they can. It's much more about controlling the game, owning the puck, and being able to efficiently transition from defense to offense quickly and smoothly.


Guys like Josi, Hedman, Makar, McAvoy are all high point producers, but that's not because they suck defensively and are just trying to play the game as 4th forwards. It's because they are all extremely talented skaters, and smart players who know how to flip the game around fast from defense to offense, they know when they can jump into plays and make offensive opportunities happen, but they also know when to play more consistently and hold back if the situation requires it.


The game is evolving literally every night. Try keeping up with it.

 

[Lt Dan]

People need to do their homework and see for themselves.

I honestly think you are asking too much here..lol

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Hedman

 

[NuxFan09]

So far, quarter of the way through the season ..he has ZERO chance. His coverage -or lack therof- on the 2nd goal last night is emblematic of his defensive deficiencies. My 12 yrold Dman son knows to keep an eye on the back door and poor Quinn looked to have zero clue he was there last night!! I know this will raise the ire of Canuck fans but the reality is , QUinn Hughes -and his bank account - are damn lucky there is something called a 'power play' in the game of hockey

Sigh.

I can understand criticizing his defensive game but implying that he's a PP specialist is just lazy, lazy analysis. You have no clue.

 

[slobbergob]

You have a good point. Colorado fans, clear this up. Is Makar on your PK if everyone's healthy or is he only playing it because of injuries? It's less impressive if he's only a fill-in.

I mean, it was definitely initially out of necessity, but Makar is at the top or near the top for every relevant metric shorthanded for the Avs defense. He's the 3rd leading toi shorthanded among defense and is at or near the top in GA/60, xGA/60, SCA/60, HDCA/60 etc. I'm pretty sure he hasn't been on the ice for a shorthanded goal against. Not to mention the Avs PK is one of the best in the league this year.

That said, when the defense is healthy I don't think they waste his energy on the PK. I think it's more valuable to have him coming on the ice just as the other teams best players are coming off.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

That said, when the defense is healthy I don't think they waste his energy on the PK. I think it's more valuable to have him coming on the ice just as the other teams best players are coming off.

I think if a player is a top two-way guy in the league they play on the PK. How many of the top two-way guys in the league don't play the PK?

 

[PAZ]

You have a good point. Colorado fans, clear this up. Is Makar on your PK if everyone's healthy or is he only playing it because of injuries? It's less impressive if he's only a fill-in.

Makar is mainly playing there due to injuries, but it isn't because he lacks the skill to be a great PKer. He's already playing 25 minutes a night and with a supporting cast of Girard, Toews, Byram, Graves, etc. there's no need to force him to waste his energy on the PK.

I think if a player is a top two-way guy in the league they play on the PK. How many of the top two-way guys in the league don't play the PK?

Crosby barely spent any time on the PK. Does that mean he wasn't one of the top two-way forwards in the league since he didn't play the PK? You don't waste talent like Crosby and Makar on the PK.

 

[slobbergob]

I think if a player is a top two-way guy in the league they play on the PK. How many of the top two-way guys in the league don't play the PK?

I don't know, but speaking specifically for the Avs, they're deep enough that they don't have to play him there. Mix that with the dynamic ability and how much skating Makar does 5v5. I just don't see it being as benefitial to the team to play him shorthanded unless there's injuries.

I do think he starts getting more time shorthanded going forward though, even when everyone's healthy.