Early look for 2021 draft

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

What does he not have? I mean he has better production than Sanderson, who some people were falling over for last year...

I think of the 3 defensemen, Quinn is the best offensively, Sanderson is the best defensively, and Luke is somewhere between the two.

Quinn looks like an elite offensive #2 or #3 guy and you need a high end shutdown guy to pair with him or he's a liability, as Vancouver is seeing this year after losing Tanev and Stecher.

I don't think Sanderson's offense develops into what you expect from a #1 guy but he's got elite shutdown potential. The kind of #2 guy you pair with that primary offensive defenseman or runs your 2nd pair as the #3.

Hughes is a great skater, just like the players listed above. He's got good size and range as well but he's not as physical as Sanderson. His passing is pretty good, but not as good as Quinn who is elite in that regard. His defense is pretty good, but he's not as quick to close gaps on a player and lock them up on the wall as Sanderson is.

All things said I think Luke Hughes is 'pretty good' and I think he'll be a player, but I think it's kind of hard to project him as anything other than a good all-around 2nd pair guy at the moment. I think there will be better players available where we pick this year.

 

[Frk It]

I think of the 3 defensemen, Quinn is the best offensively, Sanderson is the best defensively, and Luke is somewhere between the two.

Quinn looks like an elite offensive #2 or #3 guy and you need a high end shutdown guy to pair with him or he's a liability, as Vancouver is seeing this year after losing Tanev and Stecher.

I don't think Sanderson's offense develops into what you expect from a #1 guy but he's got elite shutdown potential. The kind of #2 guy you pair with that primary offensive defenseman or runs your 2nd pair as the #3.

Hughes is a great skater, just like the players listed above. He's got good size and range as well but he's not as physical as Sanderson. His passing is pretty good, but not as good as Quinn who is elite in that regard. His defense is pretty good, but he's not as quick to close gaps on a player and lock them up on the wall as Sanderson is.

All things said I think Luke Hughes is 'pretty good' and I think he'll be a player, but I think it's kind of hard to project him as anything other than a good all-around 2nd pair guy at the moment. I think there will be better players available where we pick this year.

Well, I'm looking at just these 2021 defenseman, and mostly the LD options.

Power, Evinsson, and Hughes. Power and Edvinsson have better size, but I am not sure I feel either are more dynamic offensively? I have not seen a lot of Edvinsson, so not entirely sure on that one.

The only defenseman I think has a clear better offensive game is Clarke, but it's at the expense of much worse skating (IMO).

So all in all -- I think Luke has the most room for growth offensively of any of these guys, coupled with +skating and a pretty complete game, so he is my personal preference. But I would be happy with Power or Edvinsson as well. I could see them going that route (another big athletic D) with the way Seider has developed so far, and would be more than good with it.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

That's quite a list.

Think that's not bad bunch of players at all. There must be something wrong at organization, and the lack of development/culture.

Players are not panning like they should. At better environment, we would see drastically better results.

Some of their trades have been horrible on asset management, I think that has eaten some team depth. That's same concers as we have. There's no middle6 at forwards etc. There could be good top line and good 4th line, but nothing between.

Buffalo's problems are self created problems from the top down. Ownership micromanages and has apparently been involved in deals for certain trades and FA contracts. I believe the rumor is that the Pegulas were involved in both the Okposo and Skinner deals directly. And their lack of depth can be directly attributed to making bad trades or bad signings; they simply can't afford good roleplayers.

The scouting staff has not done a good job with many of their high picks except the absolute can't-miss picks like Eichel and Dahlin and have rushed many directly to the league when they weren't ready. They've done a pretty shit job from the 2nd round and beyond.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Well, I'm looking at just these 2021 defenseman, and mostly the LD options.

Power, Evinsson, and Hughes. Power and Edvinsson have better size, but I am not sure I feel either are more dynamic offensively? I have not seen a lot of Edvinsson, so not entirely sure on that one.

The only defenseman I think has a clear better offensive game is Clarke, but it's at the expense of much worse skating (IMO).

So all in all -- I think Luke has the most room for growth offensively of any of these guys, coupled with +skating and a pretty complete game, so he is my personal preference. But I would be happy with Power or Edvinsson as well. I could see them going that route (another big athletic D) with the way Seider has developed so far, and would be more than good with it.

Power looks to have the best offensive skillset out of himself, Edvinsson, and Hughes. Great shot, great passing, great frame. I think he could become a true top pairing guy, even though I backed off on my 'has elite potential' projection earlier this year. His offensive game is steady, not flashy. Power is great at stopping the puck from leaving the zone and then finding a passing lane to his forwards to keep the cycle alive. If he can be a Zach Werenski or Aaron Ekblad type then the guy will be a great player to have on the team.

Clarke is probably the best offensive D option total but I haven't seen if he's improved his skating this year. Last season he had great forward mobility but you could see he needed to work on his edges and lateral agility when moving backwards. The kid plays a lot like a 4th forward at times.

I was high on Edvinsson at the beginning of the year but after seeing him up at Frolunda a few times I'm not a fan of his decision making. He's very 'toolsy' as a defenseman but not much of a toolbox. The Wings have picked enough of these guys over the last few decades to make me want to avoid them forever. (Brendan Smith, Kindl, Oulahan, Jurco, Cholowski, etc.) Edvinsson isn't another Seider that was just completely underscouted. I think the kid is more likely this year's Broberg where he's missing a brain to put it all together.

Also the smart money is on Edvinsson being picked late in the top 10 or even the early to mid teens. We're looking at a top 3 to top 5 pick. I'd avoid him.

 

[Frk It]

Power looks to have the best offensive skillset out of himself, Edvinsson, and Hughes. Great shot, great passing, great frame. I think he could become a true top pairing guy, even though I backed off on my 'has elite potential' projection earlier this year. His offensive game is steady, not flashy. Power is great at stopping the puck from leaving the zone and then finding a passing lane to his forwards to keep the cycle alive. If he can be a Zach Werenski or Aaron Ekblad type then the guy will be a great player to have on the team.

Clarke is probably the best offensive D option total but I haven't seen if he's improved his skating this year. Last season he had great forward mobility but you could see he needed to work on his edges and lateral agility when moving backwards. The kid plays a lot like a 4th forward at times.

I was high on Edvinsson at the beginning of the year but after seeing him up at Frolunda a few times I'm not a fan of his decision making. He's very 'toolsy' as a defenseman but not much of a toolbox. The Wings have picked enough of these guys over the last few decades to make me want to avoid them forever. (Brendan Smith, Kindl, Oulahan, Jurco, Cholowski, etc.) Edvinsson isn't another Seider that was just completely underscouted. I think the kid is more likely this year's Broberg where he's missing a brain to put it all together.

Also the smart money is on Edvinsson being picked late in the top 10 or even the early to mid teens. We're looking at a top 3 to top 5 pick. I'd avoid him.

Bob McKenzie had Edvinsson at 2 among the scouts he polled in December, so I think you’re about off there.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Bob McKenzie had Edvinsson at 2 among the scouts he polled in December, so I think you’re about off there.

Bob McKenzie also had Carson Lambos at 17 so I think maybe he's hitting the sauce pretty hard in retirement.

 

[newfy]

Bob McKenzie also had Carson Lambos at 17 so I think maybe he's hitting the sauce pretty hard in retirement.

Yeah all those scouts and execs that he polls to make that list probably ranked Lambos really high and Mackenzie was so sauced up that he just moved him down the list...

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Yeah all those scouts and execs that he polls to make that list probably ranked Lambos really high and Mackenzie was so sauced up that he just moved him down the list...

Most other polls, that also use scouts, have Lambos ranked anywhere from top 5 to top 12.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Edvinsson was a bit sloppy with the puck in the SHL in the two games that I watched him, but that was a major, major jump in competition and a much higher level than any of the other defensemen have been playing at this year. I have seen Hughes do some dumb stuff with the puck too this year. It is hard for me to figure out how much weight to assign them as I don't expect any 18-year-old defensemen to play mistake free hockey at that level, but I also want someone who consistently makes good decisions with the puck. I think the U18s will be very big for him.

Lambos will be a better skating Barret Jackman.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Edvinsson was a bit sloppy with the puck in the SHL in the two games that I watched him, but that was a major, major jump in competition and a much higher level than any of the other defensemen have been playing at this year. I have seen Hughes do some dumb stuff with the puck too this year. It is hard for me to figure out how much weight to assign them as I don't expect any 18-year-old defensemen to play mistake free hockey at that level, but I also want someone who consistently makes good decisions with the puck. I think the U18s will be very big for him.

Lambos will be a better skating Barret Jackman.

If Lambos is going to be a better skating Jackman then he should be an 8-12 pick. There’s still a place in the league for hardnosed d.

 

[wingerdinger]

I'm very skeptical about Edvinsson, i've watched him in the allskvensan as well and he hasnt impressed me much. Plus we already have the big LHD toolsy project defensemen in Wallinder.

Clarke I'm really high on, despite his skating, he reminds me of Makar to a certain extent. He's by far the most offensively dynamic dman and is a cerebral enough defender were he'll be in the right place at the right time. you pair him with a Johansson or Seider someone who can do his skating for him, he could be a massive success.

Hughes/Power- I like equally. Both would round out our d-core really well. Suspect yzerman might prefer power due to his height/reach.

 

[newfy]

Most other polls, that also use scouts, have Lambos ranked anywhere from top 5 to top 12.

What other polls are you talking about?

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

If Lambos is going to be a better skating Jackman then he should be an 8-12 pick. There’s still a place in the league for hardnosed d.

8 -12 is reasonable in my book but I could see him fall a bit further than that as well.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I'm very skeptical about Edvinsson, i've watched him in the allskvensan as well and he hasnt impressed me much. Plus we already have the big LHD toolsy project defensemen in Wallinder.

Clarke I'm really high on, despite his skating, he reminds me of Makar to a certain extent. He's by far the most offensively dynamic dman and is a cerebral enough defender were he'll be in the right place at the right time. you pair him with a Johansson or Seider someone who can do his skating for him, he could be a massive success.

Hughes/Power- I like equally. Both would round out our d-core really well. Suspect yzerman might prefer power due to his height/reach.

Makar without his skating is not Makar. I think that is very important to remember is gauging Clarke's ceiling. I really like his game but I do worry about how he translates with his skating. I can't say I have seen a ton of improvement in that department his season unfortunately, at least not from a technical perspective.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

What other polls are you talking about?

I stand corrected! Most polls now have him in the mid to late teens.

Carson Lambos at eliteprospects.com

This kid has really sunk on the polls lately. A lot of places had him listed as a top 10 pick last year and earlier this year. He was having a pretty good season in Finland, too. Not sure what's happened

 

[Gniwder]

I stand corrected! Most polls now have him in the mid to late teens.

Carson Lambos at eliteprospects.com

This kid has really sunk on the polls lately. A lot of places had him listed as a top 10 pick last year and earlier this year. He was having a pretty good season in Finland, too. Not sure what's happened

WHo cares about polls, if the kid's got the skillset then it doesn't matter, Seider was projected to go mid teens as well.

(I am not comparing playing abilities here, I actually haven't watched much of Lambos at all. Just a commentary on polls.)

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

WHo cares about polls, if the kid's got the skillset then it doesn't matter, Seider was projected to go mid teens as well.

(I am not comparing playing abilities here, I actually haven't watched much of Lambos at all. Just a commentary on polls.)

I think you'd like him. The games I caught of his last year made me think of some of the nastier defensive D of the last 20 years. Rzombo4prez thinks Jackman, I think Robyn Regehr. If this kid does actually slide to 16 or later I pray and hope we can snag another 1st for a crack at picking him. Even if it costs us a crack at my boy Olausson.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

I hope we get 1st overall and draft Beniers. Because what that would tell me is Yzerman has identified him as and elite center. And I’ll take Yzerman scouting over all these douchers any day, after the seider pick.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I hope we get 1st overall and draft Beniers. Because what that would tell me is Yzerman has identified him as and elite center. And I’ll take Yzerman scouting over all these douchers any day, after the seider pick.

Someone reported that there were a ton of the Wings brass at the most recent U of M game.

...Maybe that's why Beniers didn't get a point? He doesn't want to play on this shit show of a team?

Owen Power as well.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I stand corrected! Most polls now have him in the mid to late teens.

Carson Lambos at eliteprospects.com

This kid has really sunk on the polls lately. A lot of places had him listed as a top 10 pick last year and earlier this year. He was having a pretty good season in Finland, too. Not sure what's happened

This is why I thought draft day projection reminded me of McIsaac. Not to say that McIsaac is the same level of talent, but it’s just these guys who play a mature game but lack really dynamic abilities. It’s the same thing with Mattias Samuelsson. They just don’t seem to inspire the same amount of excitement as the kids with game breaking ability or an elite physical package.

We see it time and time again where people that seem safely projectable but lacking high end potential tend to slowly fall over their draft year. Like look at what happened to Veleno and the fall he made..all because people were uncertain about the offensive upside and viewed him as a middle 6 or even a bottom 6 caliber center. Dude was (is) going to play, but is he going to pop at the next level.

If I stumbled onto a second pick in the mid first, I could see that being the comfort inspiring asset to take a Kent Johnson or Simon Edvinsson without much grief because I have a second go at it, and hope a player like Lambos is still around. That way I will have taken the high skill swing for the fences and the high floor confidence.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

This is why I thought draft day projection reminded me of McIsaac. Not to say that McIsaac is the same level of talent, but it’s just these guys who play a mature game but lack really dynamic abilities. It’s the same thing with Mattias Samuelsson. They just don’t seem to inspire the same amount of excitement as the kids with game breaking ability or an elite physical package.

We see it time and time again where people that seem safely projectable but lacking high end potential tend to slowly fall over their draft year. Like look at what happened to Veleno and the fall he made..all because people were uncertain about the offensive upside and viewed him as a middle 6 or even a bottom 6 caliber center. Dude was (is) going to play, but is he going to pop at the next level.

If I stumbled onto a second pick in the mid first, I could see that being the comfort inspiring asset to take a Kent Johnson or Simon Edvinsson without much grief because I have a second go at it, and hope a player like Lambos is still around. That way I will have taken the high skill swing for the fences and the high floor confidence.

Fair enough, and that strategy makes some sense. (Though I sincerely doubt that was our strategy when we were picking 6 and 30 in 2018...)

I think he's a fair bit better than McIsaac in all areas while being comparable stylistically. Lambos looks like he could be an absolute pain in the ass to play against as a top 4 guy, he moves pretty well and has a great first pass out of the zone. The kind of guy that every team needs in a playoff matchup. I think it's possible he's got top pair upside, but as the complimentary safe and steady partner, the Marc Methot to someone else's Erik Karlsson, or Regehr while someone plays like Phaneuf.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Fair enough, and that strategy makes some sense. (Though I sincerely doubt that was our strategy when we were picking 6 and 30 in 2018...)

I think he's a fair bit better than McIsaac in all areas while being comparable stylistically. Lambos looks like he could be an absolute pain in the ass to play against as a top 4 guy, he moves pretty well and has a great first pass out of the zone. The kind of guy that every team needs in a playoff matchup. I think it's possible he's got top pair upside, but as the complimentary safe and steady partner, the Marc Methot to someone else's Erik Karlsson, or Regehr while someone plays like Phaneuf.

Right, again, not at all saying they are comparable players, but comparable in what it is they represent. A non-flashy defenseman who likely projects as a second option on a pairing, has a bit of a physical aspect to his game.

 

[Martinez]

UofM starting right now on BTN if anyone wants to see beniers, power, johnson

 

[lhsgolf19]

PPG for Johnson... Beniers with the assist

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

All three of Beniers, Johnson, and Power are buzzing so far.