Early Impressions: Marcus Pettersson
- Thread starter Gurglesons
- Start date
Doogle
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2010
- 599
- 465
Daniel Sprong, last 5 games:
Average ice time: 15 minutes 18 seconds
Shifts per game: 19
Shots per game: 2.8
Points: 1 assist
+/-: -4
So for the 'he would produce/show he's a good player if Sullivan would just give him a chance!' crew.... apparently that's not the case. At least in this limited sample size.
Ironically his production is the same as Pettersson's (1 assist last five games), with roughly the same amount of ice time. Except that Pettersson is an even player, and plays defense and not wing. So for a guy whose only claim to 'fame' is his scoring ability, he's sure not doing his job these past few games. Meanwhile, Pettersson has stabilized our defense, which in turn has allowed both of our goalies to look considerably better, and none of our forward lines have taken a step back at all without Sprong in the lineup. Obviously like I said, small sample size/recency bias involved. But even just using the eye test, anyone who knows anything about hockey can tell that this team is far better off since having made the trade, and our 9-2-1 record since also helps support that claim as well.
Average ice time: 15 minutes 18 seconds
Shifts per game: 19
Shots per game: 2.8
Points: 1 assist
+/-: -4
So for the 'he would produce/show he's a good player if Sullivan would just give him a chance!' crew.... apparently that's not the case. At least in this limited sample size.
Ironically his production is the same as Pettersson's (1 assist last five games), with roughly the same amount of ice time. Except that Pettersson is an even player, and plays defense and not wing. So for a guy whose only claim to 'fame' is his scoring ability, he's sure not doing his job these past few games. Meanwhile, Pettersson has stabilized our defense, which in turn has allowed both of our goalies to look considerably better, and none of our forward lines have taken a step back at all without Sprong in the lineup. Obviously like I said, small sample size/recency bias involved. But even just using the eye test, anyone who knows anything about hockey can tell that this team is far better off since having made the trade, and our 9-2-1 record since also helps support that claim as well.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Now can people stop criticizing me for saying Pettersson has fringe #2/3 upside? 
On Sprong, what he's doing now should have been the expectation for him. He projects to be a streaky player at his best in the NHL, what do you think he'd be like as basically a rookie? He'll get like 4 goals in a 5 game run and then put up 0 goals in the next 8 games, that's just the kind of player he is. The problem is that he's bad away from the puck, so I can't imagine a lot of teams will be tolerant of him being that streaky in his production. He's still the same thing now that most people anticipated he'd be if given top-6 minutes over a full season: about a 20 goal and 40 point player per 82 games. His problem is that you can argue the bad outweighs his overall production at this point.
On Sprong, what he's doing now should have been the expectation for him. He projects to be a streaky player at his best in the NHL, what do you think he'd be like as basically a rookie? He'll get like 4 goals in a 5 game run and then put up 0 goals in the next 8 games, that's just the kind of player he is. The problem is that he's bad away from the puck, so I can't imagine a lot of teams will be tolerant of him being that streaky in his production. He's still the same thing now that most people anticipated he'd be if given top-6 minutes over a full season: about a 20 goal and 40 point player per 82 games. His problem is that you can argue the bad outweighs his overall production at this point.
This is what I expected. Everyone of the reactionary people that made a big deal out of his 3 goals in his first 5 games was hysterically premature. I said that then and it is looking more like that by the day. I said he has a 50% chance of still being a bust. I felt since the deal and watching Petterson play that the Pens could not lose this deal. Even if Sprong turns out to be a 20+ goal scoring one dimensional winger I still would take Pettersson and his chances of being a second pairing defenseman as equal or better value to Sprong’s best case scenario. Also believe Pettersson is much more likely to reach his level than Sprong. Actually think Pettersson becoming as good as Dumoulin is the same chance of Sprong being a productive scoring winger which isn’t good.
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Johnson has been a plus 5 since that pairing was put together and a -13 in the 25 games before that pairing. To be fair Johnson was getting used to a new team and style of play and took time to get an established pairing that fit. Now it looks like he has found that fit and if that pairing keeps it up Pens are in good shape.
Johnson does have his strong points and they seem to fit with what Pettersson brings to the pairing. I like how Johnson has played since the pairing has been formed. I have keyed in on both partners play and think they both have done a really good job. For all you Johnson haters point to anything you think has been bad about what Johnson has done in those games? He has been getting top 4 minutes and played very solid. If Johnson continues his play with Pettersson and also his strong PK ability throughout the season then he is giving exactly what I was looking for. I wanted to see the 2016-17 Johnson and that is what I have seen over these past 12 games. I think 2 pairings are set for playoffs and now we just need to see who is best with Schultz when he gets back. That should be an interesting time what Sullivan and JR does.
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edog37
Registered User
Now can people stop criticizing me for saying Pettersson has fringe #2/3 upside?
On Sprong, what he's doing now should have been the expectation for him. He projects to be a streaky player at his best in the NHL, what do you think he'd be like as basically a rookie? He'll get like 4 goals in a 5 game run and then put up 0 goals in the next 8 games, that's just the kind of player he is. The problem is that he's bad away from the puck, so I can't imagine a lot of teams will be tolerant of him being that streaky in his production. He's still the same thing now that most people anticipated he'd be if given top-6 minutes over a full season: about a 20 goal and 40 point player per 82 games. His problem is that you can argue the bad outweighs his overall production at this point.
We absolutely stole that trade. Sprong sucks & we got a serviceable defensemen who has helped to balance out our blue line. If JR doesn’t make another deal this year, that one was golden. I might have to revise my prediction on Sprong being out of the league in a year. He might be done before the end of this season.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
That's a bad take
It's not really though. There's lots of players who Sprong'd like Sprong at one point in time.
Jesse
Registered User
Johnson not being on the ice for goals against has to do with the following when I consider how the Penguins are using him right now and the environment of the team as a whole:
1. Everyone is on the ice for less goals when the Penguins get above average goaltending.
2. You're especially on the ice for less goals when your deployment is babysit in the most extreme of ways.
Marcus Pettersson being good doesn't have a lot to do with it, IMO. If anything, it should just make everyone want to see what Pettersson can do on his own with more minutes and responsibility.
1. Everyone is on the ice for less goals when the Penguins get above average goaltending.
2. You're especially on the ice for less goals when your deployment is babysit in the most extreme of ways.
Marcus Pettersson being good doesn't have a lot to do with it, IMO. If anything, it should just make everyone want to see what Pettersson can do on his own with more minutes and responsibility.
edog37
Registered User
That's a bad take
You think Randy Carlyle will put up with a perimeter player like him? They might even turn him at the trade deadline.
edog37
Registered User
Empoleon8771
Registered User
You think Randy Carlyle will put up with a perimeter player like him? They might even turn him at the trade deadline.
I mean, they're not going to run him out of town so quickly. That's the point I'm making. What would the Ducks possibly gain by cutting the cord with him this soon after acquiring him?
There is zero chance that Sprong would get through waivers this season, so yeah, it is a bad take. Whether it's on Anaheim or someone else, he will definitely be in the NHL.
Again, Sprong is 21 years old right now and tore up the AHL as a rookie. The only reason he's even in the NHL right now is because of a screw up by JR in 2015. Anaheim isn't going to pull the plug on him this quickly, especially when he has been decent for them overall.
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
Empoleon8771
Registered User
I haven't seen anyone flip flopping on Sprong, the same people who say he sucked or was amazing 2 weeks ago still say that now. If anything, people have only used Sprong's performance in Anaheim to push whatever opinion they had, whether it be him being amazing (first couple of games) or him being terrible (last couple of games).
I don't know why people can't find some sort of middle ground on a majority of topics on here. Sprong is absolute dog **** in the eyes of some and is a future elite winger in the eyes of others. People who say he's going to be out of the league in the year are making just as ridiculous statements as the people who say he'd be Phil Kessel 2.0 if just given a top-6 role.
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
More the need for instant gratification/confirmation.
Most seemingly can not accept that the final verdict likely is long off, in a period likely measured by several years.
Gurglesons
Registered User
The Old Master
come and take it.
the duck fans seem to be happy with him, and the way he's been playing. just say'enNow can people stop criticizing me for saying Pettersson has fringe #2/3 upside?
On Sprong, what he's doing now should have been the expectation for him. He projects to be a streaky player at his best in the NHL, what do you think he'd be like as basically a rookie? He'll get like 4 goals in a 5 game run and then put up 0 goals in the next 8 games, that's just the kind of player he is. The problem is that he's bad away from the puck, so I can't imagine a lot of teams will be tolerant of him being that streaky in his production. He's still the same thing now that most people anticipated he'd be if given top-6 minutes over a full season: about a 20 goal and 40 point player per 82 games. His problem is that you can argue the bad outweighs his overall production at this point.
Gurglesons
Registered User
That’s because they don’t have insane expectations for him like “elite shot” or “2nd best shot on the Pens”.
And they think he’s a project.
edog37
Registered User
Tearing up the AHL is not even remotely close to being an NHLer. There was a guy named Jason Krog who played for the Chicago Wolves. Had 112 points but couldn’t transition his game to the NHL level. Sprong is the same way. His soft perimeter game will ensure he’s sent down.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Great to know you can tell the future
Him tearing up the AHL doesn't mean he's a NHLer, but him tearing up the AHL at age 20 as a rookie is a great reason for teams to be patient with Sprong. Again, why do you think Anaheim would pull the plug on him this quickly?
Scandale du Jour
JordanStaal#1Fan
Great to know you can tell the future
Him tearing up the AHL doesn't mean he's a NHLer, but him tearing up the AHL at age 20 as a rookie is a great reason for teams to be patient with Sprong. Again, why do you think Anaheim would pull the plug on him this quickly?
Volume scorers in the minor do not necessarily become good NHLers. Countless examples in the history of the game.
Sprong producing at 20 in the AHL only means that he was good in the AHL.
I like Sprong, but do not draw conclusions from his ability to score in the AHL.
Shady Machine
Registered User
- Aug 6, 2010
- 36,704
- 8,141
To counter that, how many have scored that many goals in the A that early in their careers? The list is fairly short from what I recall @Soggy Biscuit sharing and most of them had NHL careers.
I think Sprong will be an NHL'er. Not sure if he will be a top 6 winger, but I think he will carve out some kind of NHL role.
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
he's not. He's just saying that teams will absolutely give him a chance before he is out of the league. Even if the Ducks do give up on him this year (which I doubt), someone else will pick him up on waivers before they let him through to the AHL.
Scandale du Jour
JordanStaal#1Fan
I agree that a good portion do have a good NHL career. All I am saying is that it is not a fool-proof indicator.
Countless Pierre Sevignys in the history of the league. Volume-scorer at every level whose game did not translate to the NHL.
Not saying it will be Sprong's case. But, so far, he has not really shown an ability to creat much offense at this level. He is still very young though. I won't draw any conclusions yet.
I am happy with Pettersson and do not really regret giving Sprong up (even if I did not necessarily agree at the time). We traded from a position of strenght to address a weakness and it seems like it is working (so far, won't draw any definitive conclusions here either).
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