Value of: Dylan Larkin to Montreal

Nucklehead Supreme

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Jul 10, 2011
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Right let’s label a high potential 20 years old center as a C because he hasn’t produced as a top 6 as a 18-19-20 years old.

He had high potential, he certainly doesn't anymore.

Quibble about his age as much as you want, I'm not saying he's a bum, I'm saying given that he was drafted 3rd OA, given that he has played 171 NHL games, produced at a .36 PPG and given that his own coach didn't even want him in the line up at the most important time of the year are all disappointing.

He looks (right now) like a 3C, good player but hardly worthy of being a 3rd OA pick.
 

BLNY

Registered User
Aug 3, 2004
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I feel like it's more that he hasn't earned either, He's 6'2 and 200 pounds, mature sure, but grow his body?

To me he's a 3C, maybe 2C eventually that the Habs bet high on and shouldn't have. If that isn't underwhelming for a 3rd OA pick I don't know what is.

He was almost young enough to have been a 2019 eligible player, and he'd have likely gone high in 2019. He's been more than sheltered. He's been buried. In virtually every chance he's been given with the teams best forwards, he's produced. When given pp time, he produced. There's only a small list of guys with more playoff goals by the same age. He and Suzuki haven't been treated near the same. Nick had his down stretches in each of the last two regular seasons. When he did, he was allowed to work out of it on his existing line. He wasn't moved down. He wasn't moved to the wing. He wasn't scratched.

I'm not saying Jesperi can't be better. Between 19-20 and 20-21 he worked on a big weakness and improved his skating. It might not be a graceful stride, but he's a lot faster than he was in either of his first two years. He needs to get stronger on his feet and in his balance to improve his play along the boards. This isn't unique to kids his height who came into the league under 200lbs. He's getting better, and stronger, but there's a ways to go.

Fact is, he hasn't been given a full year - or even a MONTH - with bona fide offensive talent. He's consistently been sent out with Leks and Armia - two offensive black holes. It's tiresome to see a guy thrown into virtually every trade proposal before he's been given a legit chance with legit talent. He's barely 21. How's about we give him the year with Hoffman and Toffoli and see what he can do before with throw him out with the bath water?
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
53,906
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40N 83W (approx)
He had high potential, he certainly doesn't anymore.

Quibble about his age as much as you want, I'm not saying he's a bum, I'm saying given that he was drafted 3rd OA, given that he has played 171 NHL games, produced at a .36 PPG and given that his own coach didn't even want him in the line up at the most important time of the year are all disappointing.

He looks (right now) like a 3C, good player but hardly worthy of being a 3rd OA pick.
And yet guys of exactly the same age with similar levels of production (going by NHLe) are not ruined and still quality prospects, right?

I mean, I'm skeptical about KK myself, but this is a pretty poor attempt to justify it.
 
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ole ole

Registered User
Oct 7, 2017
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He had high potential, he certainly doesn't anymore.

Quibble about his age as much as you want, I'm not saying he's a bum, I'm saying given that he was drafted 3rd OA, given that he has played 171 NHL games, produced at a .36 PPG and given that his own coach didn't even want him in the line up at the most important time of the year are all disappointing.

He looks (right now) like a 3C, good player but hardly worthy of being a 3rd OA pick.

20 yr old and you say his age shouldn't matter? Ya right. :facepalm:
 

Nucklehead Supreme

Registered User
Jul 10, 2011
4,309
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And yet guys of exactly the same age with similar levels of production (going by NHLe) are not ruined and still quality prospects, right?

I mean, I'm skeptical about KK myself, but this is a pretty poor attempt to justify it.

I never said he was ruined, lol, all I said was he hasn't lived up to the hype that comes with being a 3rd OA pick.

A 3C is still a good player, is it not?
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
53,906
31,545
40N 83W (approx)
I never said he was ruined, lol, all I said was he hasn't lived up to the hype that comes with being a 3rd OA pick.

A 3C is still a good player, is it not?
It's assuming his development has already plateaued, which is generally not a reasonable conclusion with a 20-year-old. He may never reach those hyped levels, but that doesn't mean we've already seen his best.
 

glenbuis

Registered User
Sep 17, 2012
4,761
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He had high potential, he certainly doesn't anymore.

Quibble about his age as much as you want, I'm not saying he's a bum, I'm saying given that he was drafted 3rd OA, given that he has played 171 NHL games, produced at a .36 PPG and given that his own coach didn't even want him in the line up at the most important time of the year are all disappointing.

He looks (right now) like a 3C, good player but hardly worthy of being a 3rd OA pick.
only crosby and gretzky have scored more playoff goals as a twenty year old . plays solid defensively and will continue to pack on muscle for a couple years . he'll be at worst a 3c and at best a top end 2c . i think it's safe to say we can sit on him for a few more years
 

Nucklehead Supreme

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Jul 10, 2011
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It's assuming his development has already plateaued, which is generally not a reasonable conclusion with a 20-year-old. He may never reach those hyped levels, but that doesn't mean we've already seen his best.

It's assuming that his first 171 games are a decent indicator of his potential, which to me is a 3C maybe 2C down the road.
 

Nucklehead Supreme

Registered User
Jul 10, 2011
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only crosby and gretzky have scored more playoff goals as a twenty year old . plays solid defensively and will continue to pack on muscle for a couple years . he'll be at worst a 3c and at best a top end 2c . i think it's safe to say we can sit on him for a few more years


I don't think you should trade him at all, you'd be selling low if you did.
 

Baksfamous112

Registered User
Jul 21, 2016
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He had high potential, he certainly doesn't anymore.

Quibble about his age as much as you want, I'm not saying he's a bum, I'm saying given that he was drafted 3rd OA, given that he has played 171 NHL games, produced at a .36 PPG and given that his own coach didn't even want him in the line up at the most important time of the year are all disappointing.

He looks (right now) like a 3C, good player but hardly worthy of being a 3rd OA pick.

Why not? He played his 20 years old season last year. Are you saying he already reached his ceiling because he played 3 NHL seasons as a teenager already? That’s a dumb conclusion

It's assuming that his first 171 games are a decent indicator of his potential, which to me is a 3C maybe 2C down the road.

No it certainly is not. Not everyone come into the league and has Barzal-level play and production. If he’s still ain’t doing much more at 22 then yeah, we can say there’s something wrong.
 
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Nucklehead Supreme

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Jul 10, 2011
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Why not? He played his 20 years old season last year. Are you saying he already reached his ceiling because he played 3 NHL seasons as a teenager already? That’s a dumb conclusion



No it certainly is not. Not everyone come into the league and has Barzal-level play and production. If he’s still ain’t doing much more at 22 then yeah, we can say there’s something wrong.

Not saying anything of the sort, I'm saying he hasn't done enough so far to warrant being drafted so high.

So the fact that he has scored at a .36 PPG over his first 171 games means absolutely nothing, and is no indication of his potential? Wow I guess the grass is always greener......
 

HabsAddict

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Feb 27, 2002
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bergevin is not trading any of the future core anyway . it's a moot point
It doesn't seem to sink in to "traders".

Bbinz made his first major mistake with the Drouin trade so that was going to be the last one. Unless a young player comes back, there isn't one going out.
 

Baksfamous112

Registered User
Jul 21, 2016
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Not saying anything of the sort, I'm saying he hasn't done enough so far to warrant being drafted so high.

So the fact that he has scored at a .36 PPG over his first 171 games means absolutely nothing, and is no indication of his potential? Wow I guess the grass is always greener......

Neither did MacKinnon until he was 22 years old and went god mode. Also, yes, it doesn’t mean much when those 171 games were played as a 18-20 years old in the NHL.
 

OKR

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Nov 18, 2015
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It's assuming that his first 171 games are a decent indicator of his potential, which to me is a 3C maybe 2C down the road.
Sooo all the players from that 2018 draft who’ve played 171 games in lower leagues have reached their full potential as well and will never be NHL players?
 
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Pavels Dog

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Feb 18, 2013
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Neither did MacKinnon until he was 22 years old and went god mode. Also, yes, it doesn’t mean much when those 171 games were played as a 18-20 years old in the NHL.
Kotkaniemi has 62 Points in 3 years (regular season)
Mackinnon had 63 Points in his rookie year (and a playoffs at over PPG).
 

Baksfamous112

Registered User
Jul 21, 2016
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Kotkaniemi has 62 Points in 3 years (regular season)
Mackinnon had 63 Points in his rookie year (and a playoffs at over PPG).

Yes and one was taken 3rd overall with 1B ceiling and the other one was expected to be a similar tiered player has Crosby. MacKinnon underperformed compared to his draft rank and expectations until he was 22 years old. Imagine Colorado giving up on him and selling him as someone who wouldn’t be more than a 55 points 2C in the NHL at 20
 

Nucklehead Supreme

Registered User
Jul 10, 2011
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Yes and one was taken 3rd overall with 1B ceiling and the other one was expected to be a similar tiered player has Crosby. MacKinnon underperformed compared to his draft rank and expectations until he was 22 years old. Imagine Colorado giving up on him and selling him as someone who wouldn’t be more than a 55 points 2C in the NHL at 20

But he showed in his first year enough to give him the benefit of the doubt, Kotkaniemi hasn't.
 
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