Dylan Larkin part 2

[haulinbass]

I like Barkov, but what has he done to be considered among the best center's in the league? Same with O'Reilly. Nice player but not even in the same category as some of those other guys you mention. Giroux is still a great player but I wouldn't consider him elite anymore. Johnson needs to have a huge rebound year, too, before putting him in that pantheon of players. Same with Getzlaf.

..... At 20 years old hes one of the elite defensive centers in the NHL. Already playing as a true 1C who also put up nearly a PPG last year. Kid is a selke caliber player already. Barkov had one of the highest PPG pace in the league, don't feel like figuring out exactly where he lands. But top 10 in the NHL I would safely guess. Florida wouldn't take two Larkins in exchange for Barkov. That's how big the difference is here. Barkov is a franchise center.

If Giroux isn't elite then I got no idea how anyone would think Larkin even has a chance to become elite. Giroux was also 10th in the NHL for center scoring. 19th overall in league scoring. Yeah he is washed up.

Getzlaf is a player who can dominate a game. Him and Perry completely wear down teams. Their ability to control the puck down low and behind the net and exhausting their opponents. Both of these players are physical forces and a nightmare to play against.

You should have watched O'Reilly in Buffalo last season. I watched at minimum 12-14 Buffalo games alone last year. O'Reilly was a force with limited talent on his line. He played a lot with Reinhart at even strength who is a good player, but Reinhart is far from a legit dominate top six forward this early into his career. Pretty impressive how well Buffalo was able to play with O'Reilly leading the way.

And even if we take these guys off the elite list.. Which is fine with me. We can shorten the elite list up to as few players as we want. It's just a preference where you draw the line. The shorter the elite list the more it proves the point I have been trying to make. I was trying to be generous. The smaller we make the elite list the less chance Larkin has at cracking it. Which my main point was arguing that Larkin has shown no signs that he has the skills to be an elite player in the NHL. Which more than one person has projected him as becoming. My point was not only that, but how far and unlikely he is to even get anywhere near the list of elite. That's what my demonstration of listing all those players ultimately proves. That was the point of it. An example to compare Larkin to 1st line centers in the NHL.

 

[Fear]

I think Larkin will have a much better career if he was kept as a winger.

What makes an elite centre in the NHL? Elite playmaking, physical strength, ability to win battles in the corners, puck protection, etc. These are not his strengths.

What are his strengths? Speed, beating guys on the outside, getting the puck in on the rush, shooting, going around the net, chasing deep pucks, beign in the "right place at the right time". These are skills that make a great winger.

I think he could be converted to centre and do well enough but he will never be the 1C people want him to be. His speed will be wasted as a center. On the other hand I think he could be a great first-line winger.

(And I know he played centre in lower leagues, but alot of young players with an NHL future end up playing centre because the coaches like to put their best players there. Lots of players are converted from C to W in the big leagues).

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

I think Larkin will have a much better career if he was kept as a winger.

What makes an elite centre in the NHL? Elite playmaking, physical strength, ability to win battles in the corners, puck protection, etc. These are not his strengths.

What are his strengths? Speed, beating guys on the outside, getting the puck in on the rush, shooting, going around the net, chasing deep pucks, beign in the "right place at the right time". These are skills that make a great winger.

I think he could be converted to centre and do well enough but he will never be the 1C people want him to be. His speed will be wasted as a center. On the other hand I think he could be a great first-line winger.

(And I know he played centre in lower leagues, but alot of young players with an NHL future end up playing centre because the coaches like to put their best players there. Lots of players are converted from C to W in the big leagues).

Maybe I'm just biased but he showed a ton of that in his rookie season. And the last thing I am worried about with Larkin is his strength... his lower body is freakishly strong for a kid his age. In reality we hope he can combine all the traits you listed in your post, because he's shown the ability to perform all of them.

Anyways I'm with frk it here. I have a hard time betting against a kid with his work ethic and drive, combined with his hockey ability. We'll see.

 

[Frk It]

If we are going to throw around current players we think Larkin will have a similar impact to... the 2 guys for me would probably be Kesler or Bergeron. If all goes well, maybe Toews.

Draper recently said the Wings believe he can become a player similar to Toews.

“They won’t come out and say it publicly, but they think he’s got a chance to be a special player,†said McKenzie during late-October radio hit on Toronto’s TSN 1050. “Somebody who really has unbelievable leadership qualities.

“The unspoken thing in Detroit is that he might – and I say might because it’s too big a mantle to throw on anybody – but maybe he becomes Detroit’s Jonathan Toews. A guy who has character and intangibles to go with the tangibles, which is tremendous speed, tremendous skill. Just sort of an attitude and presence about him. I think that’s the first thing that a lot of veteran Red Wings noticed, was that this teenage kid is unlike any other teenage kid they’ve had come in Detroit for a long, long time.

“He’s got that special something and it’s hard sometimes to put into words what that special something is, but you know when someone’s got it. The Blackhawks knew when Toews came up that he had it, and the feeling in Detroit is that Larkin is cut from the same sort of cloth.â€

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/nichols-notes/draper-know-something-special-larkin/

 

[Wood Stick]

I think Patrice Bergeron is a better player than Jonathan Toews.

Bergeron can match him in points and is another tier defensively. The only player that has been on Bergeron's level defensively in the last 10 years is Datsyuk. Bergeron plays with lesser linemates, and is in a defensive system.

Jonathan Toews has generally been the third best player on his team (Keith/Kane), the second best offensive player - at times third (Kane) and the second best defensive player (Hossa).

If Larkin becomes a Bergeron, I'd be so ****ing happy.

 

[Wood Stick]

I think Larkin will have a much better career if he was kept as a winger.

What makes an elite centre in the NHL? Elite playmaking, physical strength, ability to win battles in the corners, puck protection, etc. These are not his strengths.

What are his strengths? Speed, beating guys on the outside, getting the puck in on the rush, shooting, going around the net, chasing deep pucks, beign in the "right place at the right time". These are skills that make a great winger.

I think he could be converted to centre and do well enough but he will never be the 1C people want him to be. His speed will be wasted as a center. On the other hand I think he could be a great first-line winger.

(And I know he played centre in lower leagues, but alot of young players with an NHL future end up playing centre because the coaches like to put their best players there. Lots of players are converted from C to W in the big leagues).

Maybe I'm just biased but he showed a ton of that in his rookie season. And the last thing I am worried about with Larkin is his strength... his lower body is freakishly strong for a kid his age. In reality we hope he can combine all the traits you listed in your post, because he's shown the ability to perform all of them.

Anyways I'm with frk it here. I have a hard time betting against a kid with his work ethic and drive, combined with his hockey ability. We'll see.

He was also a 19 year old kid and playing wing for the first time really. He was forced to play off the puck because of Zetterberg. Larkin has speed, two-way ability and his playmaking will improve as he gets more experience. He's our number one centre long-term. Svech IMO, is a long-term W. He's the big body, not Larkin.

 

[Frk It]

I think Patrice Bergeron is a better player than Jonathan Toews.

Bergeron can match him in points and is another tier defensively. The only player that has been on Bergeron's level defensively in the last 10 years is Datsyuk. Bergeron plays with lesser linemates, and is in a defensive system.

Jonathan Toews has generally been the third best player on his team (Keith/Kane), the second best offensive player - at times third (Kane) and the second best defensive player (Hossa).

If Larkin becomes a Bergeron, I'd be so ****ing happy.

A case can definitely be made for this. I think im most circles Toews is considered a better player though.

And I think Larkin could become a player like Bergeron, personally.

 

[Frk It]

He was also a 19 year old kid and playing wing for the first time really. He was forced to play off the puck because of Zetterberg. Larkin has speed, two-way ability and his playmaking will improve as he gets more experience. He's our number one centre long-term. Svech IMO, is a long-term W. He's the big body, not Larkin.

Yeah, of course he's going to attack the outside when he is 19 and has a kid's body. Wait until he is in his mid 20's and physically mature and has some weight on him. He will go inside or outside as he pleases.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Yeah, of course he's going to attack the outside when he is 19 and has a kid's body. Wait until he is in his mid 20's and physically mature and has some weight on him. He will go inside or outside as he pleases.

He drove the middle more than I expected given his age and still developing physical build in all honesty.

Larkin's desire and work ethic to be the best means his development really shouldn't be capped. He plays the game with a maturity and tenacity that it is hard not to come up with the Kesler, Toews and Bergeron kind of guys that similarly never give an inch.

 

[Claypool]

And I think Larkin could become a player like Bergeron, personally.

Larkin, to me, has better offensive skill that Bergeron. Larkin reminds me of a young Sidney Crosby when he has the puck. He's obviously not going to put up Sid's numbers, but I think he'll have several 80-90 point seasons in him. I think a lot of people are underselling his offensive talents, just like when he was first drafted.

 

[Heaton]

Larkin, to me, has better offensive skill that Bergeron. Larkin reminds me of a young Sidney Crosby when he has the puck. He's obviously not going to put up Sid's numbers, but I think he'll have several 80-90 point seasons in him. I think a lot of people are underselling his offensive talents, just like when he was first drafted.

Interesting, players who have several 80-90 point seasons usually compete for best player in the world over the course of their career, it's extremely rare for players to have multiple seasons over 80-90 points. I think there's maybe 5-8 players each year who eclipse 80 points (there were only 5 last season). Pavel Datsyuk had 4 80+ point seasons, two 90+ point seasons. Henrik Zetterberg had three 80+ point seasons.

Basically, you're saying Larkin is going to be a hall of fame player and potentially the best player in the world at some point of his career.

 

[Frk It]

Larkin, to me, has better offensive skill that Bergeron. Larkin reminds me of a young Sidney Crosby when he has the puck. He's obviously not going to put up Sid's numbers, but I think he'll have several 80-90 point seasons in him. I think a lot of people are underselling his offensive talents, just like when he was first drafted.

Crosby was much stronger at Larkin's age, and harder on the puck.

As for the latter part, we will have to see.

 

[Claypool]

Basically, you're saying Larkin is going to be a hall of fame player and potentially the best player in the world at some point of his career.

Yes sir.

 

[Heaton]

Yes sir.

Nice, that should come within the next 4 years, I guess we'll be competing sooner than I thought. If Larkin is winning the Art Ross, that means that someone like AA or Mantha is also putting up elite numbers.

 

[Wood Stick]

I see Larkin growing into the of Eric Lindros. Skating like Sergei Fedorov, offensive game of Sidney Crosby and defensive game of Patrice Bergeron..

but really, a bit of his game reminds me of Anze Kopitar out in Los Angeles. Drafted in similar spots actually. Kops is a bit bigger. Basically a top tier first line C, bit back from elite, huge reach, great skating, makes his teammates so much better, strong TW game, and a quick release. Kopitar is a pretty consistent 70 point guy in a defensive system.

I think Kopitar might be better than Bergeron and Toews for that matter. He really hasn't gotten the credit for some time. Was a PPG in both playoff runs, generally around .90 PPG regular season player and just won the Selke.

 

[Z40]

I see Larkin growing into the of Eric Lindros. Skating like Sergei Fedorov, offensive game of Sidney Crosby and defensive game of Patrice Bergeron..

but really, a bit of his game reminds me of Anze Kopitar out in Los Angeles. Drafted in similar spots actually. Kops is a bit bigger. Basically a top tier first line C, bit back from elite, huge reach, great skating, makes his teammates so much better, strong TW game, and a quick release. Kopitar is a pretty consistent 70 point guy in a defensive system.

I think Kopitar might be better than Bergeron and Toews for that matter. He really hasn't gotten the credit for some time. Was a PPG in both playoff runs, generally around .90 PPG regular season player and just won the Selke.

Kopitar is, for sure, elite. He just doesn't get as much recognition because he plays in California.

We would be super lucky if Larkin turns out to be as good as him. I'm skeptical that will happen, but who knows. The kid has a lot of potential.

 

[Henkka]

I don't see them as same.

Kopitar is more of a defensive playmaker like Datsyuk was. Larkin is a defensive shoot-first guy. Kind of "Logan Couture", and kind of "Fedorov".

Bergeron could be also that type, but to raise at the level of Bergeron, Larkin has to do really big things and develop huge steps. Like get those faceoffs from abysmality to greatness...

 

[Frk It]

I don't see them as same.

Kopitar is more of a defensive playmaker like Datsyuk was. Larkin is a defensive shoot-first guy. Kind of "Logan Couture", and kind of "Fedorov".

Bergeron could be also that type, but to raise at the level of Bergeron, Larkin has to do really big things and develop huge steps. Like get those faceoffs from abysmality to greatness...

People were talking about type of impact, not necessarily play style.

 

[haulinbass]

People were talking about type of impact, not necessarily play style.

Well Kopitar has a huge impact on the game. A few NHL players have said Kopitar is one of the hardest players in the league to play against. Obviously Larkins play style isn't even remotely close to Kopitars but I'm also not understanding the impact comparison either.

I think Kopitar is underrated around here. Obviously people know hes really good, but because he doesn't put up top 10 points people don't see him as highly as they should.

 

[19 for president]

I think Larks and Z could be very similar in terms of peak impact. IE not quite skilled enough to be a consistent top 10 forward, but have a couple of years where they are in discussion. I see him averaging around 70-75 a year with a peak in the 85-90 range. I think Z had a bit better vision but that Larks has better physical gifts. Both mostly accomplishing things through their hard work and leadership. Now the Wings just need to find that Datsyuk replacement, which is obviously much easier said than done.

 

[Frk It]

Well Kopitar has a huge impact on the game. A few NHL players have said Kopitar is one of the hardest players in the league to play against. Obviously Larkins play style isn't even remotely close to Kopitars but I'm also not understanding the impact comparison either.

I think Kopitar is underrated around here. Obviously people know hes really good, but because he doesn't put up top 10 points people don't see him as highly as they should.

Don't disagree with anything you said. Kopitar is an elite player.

 

[HIFE]

I'm excited for how Larkin could progress. Recently watched the Wings vs. San Jose from February and Larkin was on fire. I forgot how fast he could skate. The entire team was taking it to the Sharks it was encouraging to remember the way the Wings can control the puck when they're on their game.

DL alone is worth following the Wings. When I compare him to the best of his generation he's right up there. Eichel or McDavid, etc. I think time will tell he can play with anyone. As he matures we'll see a whole new epoch of hockey I think it's very possible Larkin remains in the top 5 of his class then the entire NHL.

The last week he's been at USA Arena in Plymouth. He got his own ice and organizes a skate with a handful of pros. Apparently since it's his ice he sets up the drills. Larkin was instructing from a dry-erase board and moving cones around giving orders to the guys, I thought this was great. For no reason I had this slight attitude towards D-Boss last season, like, "he's no Yzerman", but I've finally come around. The kid is elite I think the sky's the limit to what he might accomplish.

 

[izlez]

I think Kopitar is underrated around here. Obviously people know hes really good, but because he doesn't put up top 10 points people don't see him as highly as they should.

That's kind of funny to me. I've thought it was funny for the longest time on these boards that EVERYONE has tons of haters: Crosby, Toews, Karlsson, etc., but it seems like EVERYONE says "Kopitar is so underrated. I love him. He's elite"

It's like everyone thinks he's underrated to the point where that actually makes him overrated.

 

[Ezekial]

That's kind of funny to me. I've thought it was funny for the longest time on these boards that EVERYONE has tons of haters: Crosby, Toews, Karlsson, etc., but it seems like EVERYONE says "Kopitar is so underrated. I love him. He's elite"

It's like everyone thinks he's underrated to the point where that actually makes him overrated.

He definitely isn't overrated, but too many people say he's underrated for him to be underrated. Dude is a top 2-way forward in the league, one of my favorites. Definitely an elite player.

 

[Mijatovic]

Larkin had a fantastic first half of the year before the grind wore into him. Itll be a few years before hes able to handle that for the full 80 game schedule.

I am hoping he comes back a little stronger. Build that body into a mans body will help him overall.