Prospect Info: Dylan Cozens, C/RW, 2019 7th overall, Lethbridge (WHL) --- Signed to ELC

[sabrebuild]

There is a lot of definitive opinions on here about a 19 year old and what his development will look like in 9 months.

Maybe argue this one out at training camp.

 

[BananaSquad]

There is a lot of definitive opinions on here about a 19 year old and what his development will look like in 9 months.

Maybe argue this one out at training camp.

Arguing the position he should play, and with the way things have gone around here, him making the team at Wing isn’t that great unless we get a massive upgrade at Center.

 

[sabremike]

Arguing the position he should play, and with the way things have gone around here, him making the team at Wing isn’t that great unless we get a massive upgrade at Center.

If he comes in, is put on the wing and is a good effective NHL player why is that a bad thing. Our forward depth is as deep as the kiddie pool at Munchkinland, having someone who is actually good in the lineup instead of say Jimmy Vesey would be a big positive.

 

[BananaSquad]

If he comes in, is put on the wing and is a good effective NHL player why is that a bad thing. Our forward depth is as deep as the kiddie pool at Munchkinland, having someone who is actually good in the lineup instead of say Jimmy Vesey would be a big positive.

I’m worried about his actual development at Center. If he’s not ready to play Center in the NHL he goes back to the WHL for me. Arizona is kicking themselves right now not sending Hayton back to the O.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I hate hate hate all these pre-determined decisions as to what position and league is best for him....it depends on where he is next fall. For some prospects breaking in at the wing would be great, for some, not so much.

I want the sabres to actively determine what his strengths/weaknesses are, what he need to improve on, and then what league/position best does that job. Them, like some of you, having stubborn beliefs of what’s best for prospects in general, would be worst case.

 

[coastal]

Playing him at wing is a failed strategy to. Center or WHL

Tell that to the Canadian National World Junior Coach... who sure as hell knows a lot more about hockey than any of us...

 

[Snippit]

13 points in 5 games since coming back (9 goals, 5 assists).

 

[BananaSquad]

Tell that to the Canadian National World Junior Coach... who sure as hell knows a lot more about hockey than any of us...

Hayton
Veleno

Both older, that’s how that tournament works when it comes to positions in the top 6, Cozens would be the 1C without question next season for Team Canada. In Buffalo, we want Cozens at Center right? Or am I way off here?

 

[sabrebuild]

Arguing the position he should play, and with the way things have gone around here, him making the team at Wing isn’t that great unless we get a massive upgrade at Center.

Well that's all irrelevant to my post. Since my point is this whole discussion could be moot, because 9 months is a ton of development or change time in a 19 year old.

But to your remark on your post, that is a very extreme position. A 20 goal scoring wing on an elc is quite valuable. Particularly with a team with a relatively tight cap. I think you are mistaking something good vs perfect.

Perfect, botts pulls a great move and gets a top 6 center for something that doesn't hurt the nhl roster and Cozens is ready for the nhl, 20-20-40.

Still very good, cheap very effective nhl winger to help the only 3 good ones we have.

 

[joshjull]

He is showing all the sines of being our long term 2C, but will NOT be ready for that role next year. I wish he could go to Rochester but he can't. I would definitely give him a few games at the start of next year to show him what is coming. Then I send him back to juniors a to play top center minutes in all situations and let him dominate. If he can get near that 2 ppg mark that would bode very well when you look at other top player development trajectories. Then he plays a year in Rochester at the #1 C position. At that point he will be physically way more mature, and have grown alot through the repetition of top minutes in the 1C spot. Bring him to the NHL and see what he can handle in the 3C role until he proves he can handle more. By that progress he likely takes the 2C role 3-4 years from now. So getting a true top six center for the team with 3-5 years of term seems the best way to help the current Sabres and not be tempted to drive Cozens up the ladder to fast.

He’s doing that right now leading the WHL in both goals and points per game.

He’s also the most physically prepared of our prospects since Eichel. He’s certainly far more physically prepared for the NHL than Sam or Mitts were at similar ages. Whether he’s mentally ready or if the team feels its the right thing for him is something we won’t know until camp.

You're development plan is very conservative for a 7th overall pick performing like he is in his D+1 season. Back to WHL then a full year in AHL. I’d be very surprised and frankly disappointed if Cozens ends up in the AHL like that.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Team Canada used him on wing on the top line.

Team Canada used Reinhart at center and look where he plays now.

 

[Bendium]

He’s doing that right now leading the WHL in both goals and points per game.

He’s also the most physically prepared of our prospects since Eichel. He’s certainly far more physically prepared for the NHL than Sam or Mitts were at similar ages. Whether he’s mentally ready or if the team feels its the right thing for him is something we won’t know until camp.

You're development plan is very conservative for a 7th overall pick performing like he is in his D+1 season. Back to WHL then a full year in AHL. I’d be very surprised and frankly disappointed if Cozens ends up in the AHL like that.

If the Sabres did not have big holes in the lineup and were competing for a playoff spot every year, then no one is talking about trying to rush him to the NHL as a 19 year old. It is only because we have those holes and are desperate for hope that we fantasize about prospects we drafted a year or two ago impacting the big club so quickly. Our player development process should have nothing to do with how the big club is playing or the holes it has in it. Thinking like that is one part of why we have been bottom feeding for so long. They should be slow cooking and going through a process where prospects have to prove it, where they have to fight for and earn their role and ice time. Once drafted, could care less about what round they went in. Development and performance should dictate.

As far as future planning, I try to assume what is normal or typical, instead of trying fit prospects into an atypical path based on thoughts about why they are somehow better than everyone else that came before them. Being physically more developed says nothing about being mentally more developed as a 19 year old. These are not men yet. Not even close.

 

[Chainshot]

They don’t need a massive upgrade at center, they just need a full compliment of Competent centers. That means retaining Larsson and finding TWO mid-line guys who can give them play where they don’t get caved in and generally break even in shot share.

Then let Cozens break in where ever. There have been some players who have broken in on the wing who have moved back into the middle and have had highly successful careers. Just don’t put it on him or some other kid to HAVE to be that guy.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Then send him back to the dub if he can’t hang at 2RW.

having him play scrub minutes as a 3C is the same failed strategy as what they did to Mitts.

There wasn't really anything wrong with Mitts' usage, other than he shouldn't have been getting NHL minutes at all. He was being sheltered in limited ES ice time with high offensive zone starts + some PP minutes. That's perfectly normal---even outright smart---use of a young player who's still learning the ropes. Mitts just wasn't ready to be an NHL player in any capacity.

 

[joshjull]

If the Sabres did not have big holes in the lineup and were competing for a playoff spot every year, then no one is talking about trying to rush him to the NHL as a 19 year old. It is only because we have those holes and are desperate for hope that we fantasize about prospects we drafted a year or two ago impacting the big club so quickly. Our player development process should have nothing to do with how the big club is playing or the holes it has in it. Thinking like that is one part of why we have been bottom feeding for so long. They should be slow cooking and going through a process where prospects have to prove it, where they have to fight for and earn their role and ice time. Once drafted, could care less about what round they went in. Development and performance should dictate.

You seem to be lashing out at several opinions, none of which are mine.

As far as future planning, I try to assume what is normal or typical, instead of trying fit prospects into an atypical path based on thoughts about why they are somehow better than everyone else that came before them.

There is nothing typical about your development approach.

One where a player who just dominated his junior league, gets sent back to juniors in his D+2 season to dominate again. You suggest he works towards being a 2pts per game player. Nothing about those things are unusual. Its what you suggest next that is. Sending him to the AHL for an entire year to develop, like we did with Olofsson.

A player who just dominated juniors for two straight years like that rarely gets sent to the AHL the next year, let alone for an entire season to work on his game. Which is why I said I would be disappointed if he was on that AHL path.

Being physically more developed says nothing about being mentally more developed as a 19 year old. These are not men yet. Not even close.

Again, as I stated in a previous past... We’ll found out in camp if the coaches feel Cozens is mentally ready and frankly emotionally mature enough to play in the NHL.

But physical readiness is one of the factors considered by a staff when determining if a player is ready. Cozens having that already on his side is without question a plus for him

 

[joshjull]

There wasn't really anything wrong with Mitts' usage, other than he shouldn't have been getting NHL minutes at all. He was being sheltered in limited ES ice time with high offensive zone starts + some PP minutes. That's perfectly normal---even outright smart---use of a young player who's still learning the ropes. Mitts just wasn't ready to be an NHL player in any capacity.

One could argue that was something that was very wrong with his usage.

 

[joshjull]

The staff will decide what’s best for Cozens development (back to juniors or NHL). I have faith in whatever their decision is because of Krueger.

Cozens has plusses going for him to make the NHL roster; Skating, strength, high defensive acumen, NHLe in low 40s. Those aren’t guarantees he makes it. But its a hell of a good start and dwarfs what Mitts came to the table with. Its even better than where Sam was at that age.

 

[sabrebuild]

He’s doing that right now leading the WHL in both goals and points per game.

He’s also the most physically prepared of our prospects since Eichel. He’s certainly far more physically prepared for the NHL than Sam or Mitts were at similar ages. Whether he’s mentally ready or if the team feels its the right thing for him is something we won’t know until camp.

You're development plan is very conservative for a 7th overall pick performing like he is in his D+1 season. Back to WHL then a full year in AHL. I’d be very surprised and frankly disappointed if Cozens ends up in the AHL like that.

I wonder what the list looks like for players picked out of the top 5 to have tremendous post draft years, and not go right to the nhl smoothly.

It would probably be subjective to what one thought dominating or whatever superlative you want to use. But I bet its a surprisingly big list.

Tho I would bet that like you said Cozen's physique and play style will likely mesh with nhl hockey sooner than later.

Really curious to see how he looks in his first 9 games next year.

 

[Bendium]

You seem to be lashing out at several opinions, none of which are mine.




There is nothing typical about your development approach.

One where a player who just dominated his junior league, gets sent back to juniors in his D+2 season to dominate again. You suggest he works towards being a 2pts per game player. Nothing about those things are unusual. Its what you suggest next that is. Sending him to the AHL for an entire year to develop, like we did with Olofsson.

A player who just dominated juniors for two straight years like that rarely gets sent to the AHL the next year, let alone for an entire season to work on his game. Which is why I said I would be disappointed if he was on that AHL path.




Again, as I stated in a previous past... We’ll found out in camp if the coaches feel Cozens is mentally ready and frankly emotionally mature enough to play in the NHL.

But physical readiness is one of the factors considered by a staff when determining if a player is ready. Cozens having that already on his side is without question a plus for him

My apologies if it appeared I was lashing out at you our putting words in your mouth. That was not my intent. I quoted your post to respond to you because we were having a conversation, more than to respond to something in particular in it. Some more thoughts.

It is true that a 2 ppg player in the WHL is not a normal prospect. It is potentially exceptional. I came to that a few weeks ago in a conversation about NHLe, and I used Cozens as a test case. I was very pleasantly surprised by his stats and went back through the last 10 years of WHL/OHL to see the names and what kind of numbers and progression they put up versus where they are now in the league. This is where I found that players that reached the 2 ppg mark for a full season were almost all eventually impact players in the NHL. At the time, Cozens was at 1.5 ppg and had an upward trend still. I would love him to go to the AHL next year but he cannot. I would love him to become a true impact player, and the stats I saw drove me to wanting to be patient and let him continue learning and dominating at a lower level than the NHL. I noted several other previous Sabres draft picks that toped out at 1.3-1.4 ppg and never made it to be NHL players.

It is true that it is not uncommon for a top 10 pick to be bought up to the NHL within 1-2 years of the draft. It is uncommon for more than 3-4 to be making an impact. The rest are just getting by like Casey Mittelstadt. I would rather be conservative with his development, because it seams there is more upside than downside to doing so.

 

[Howie Hodge]

13 points in 5 games since coming back (9 goals, 5 assists).

What is this, some sort of new math?

In my day, 9 + 5 = 14 points!

Sorry, that was a hanging curveball!

Thank you for pointing out his great productivity since his return.

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

Selfishness has me wanting the kid to crack lineup next year with a mature Giraffe. I think we add some much needed firepower with them coming in. Not at the sake of development, so it’s dependent on that but if they’re both ready I’d like to see:
Skinner-Eichel-Thompson
Olly-Cozens-Reinhart
Vesey/Sheary/Frolik-MoJo-Lazar
LOG

 

[Snippit]

I still see him as a winger in the NHL

Not sure he has the skill and vision to be a top 6 centre. But I love the thought of him on Eichel’s RW.

 

[sabrebuild]

I still see him as a winger in the NHL

Not sure he has the skill and vision to be a top 6 centre. But I love the thought of him on Eichel’s RW.

Wouldn't hate that at all.

Obviously the best outcome is he is a force at center, but if he only ends up as a two way 30 goal winger, that is a good outcome. If him and Sam don't get that spot, having 4 top six wingers for the forseeable future isn't terrible.

 

[joshjull]

I still see him as a winger in the NHL

Not sure he has the skill and vision to be a top 6 centre. But I love the thought of him on Eichel’s RW.

The type of center I see with his skill set is a very versatile 2/3 center along the lines of Jordan Staal type. One who can play all situations and also get a decent chunk of minutes 5v5 because of his defensive acumen. Plus can jump up on wing.

Someone who can put up 25g 50pts while playing matchup minutes. Can also jump up on wing on other lines to either help close things out because of his defensive acumen/faceoff skills or get back into the game because of his shot or for an end of period dzone draw.


*** I’m NOT talking about next year. I’m just talking his general potential at center.***

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

I still see him as a winger in the NHL

Not sure he has the skill and vision to be a top 6 centre. But I love the thought of him on Eichel’s RW.

Eichel controls the puck and Eichel and Cozens are both high volume shooters.

Sam ironically does have the skill and vision to play center. I'd like to see Dylan with Sam and have either one of them at center (perferably Sam but I doubt that happens).