Rumor: Dumba: Several teams interested, part 2

[East Coast Icestyle]

Yes

Then what is wth the urge to trade him for Phil Danault vs prospects + picks/other roster players.

There’s a massive gap between Danault and Monahan (50 point peak defensive centre vs consistent 30 goal guy who hit 80 two seasons ago) and it doesn’t seem wild fans have any interest in anything other than the two at all.

Danault implies 30 point defender, Monahan implies 55 point, 15 goal defender

 

[HighLifeMan]

If Dumba returns to his form from last season and the season prior, virtually all of the names in this thread need significant value added to be worth Dumba.

Dumba never has, nor never will hold significantly more value than Monahan.

 

[AKL]

Dumba never has, nor never will hold significantly more value than Monahan.

Cool you named one center. My statement is still valid.

 

[AKL]

Then what is wth the urge to trade him for Phil Danault vs prospects + picks/other roster players.

There’s a massive gap between Danault and Monahan (50 point peak defensive centre vs consistent 30 goal guy who hit 80 two seasons ago) and it doesn’t seem wild fans have any interest in anything other than the two at all.

Danault implies 30 point defender, Monahan implies 55 point, 15 goal defender

You're preaching to the choir on Danault.

 

[HighLifeMan]

Cool you named one center. My statement is still valid.

Well my posts have solely been in regards to Monahan here. I don’t necessarily disagree with you on the others though.

 

[Menzinger]

If Dumba returns to his form from last season and the season prior, virtually all of the names in this thread need significant value added to be worth Dumba.

He's going to need another season to get to that level, if he ever does.

 

[AKL]

how many top 4 right shot defenseman under 28?

Just for fun

In the last three years, Dumba has scored .52 points per game. For right handed defensemen with more than 50 games, that puts him at 20th. Of those 20 guys, the players that are 26 or younger are:

Cale Makar
Seth Jones
Adam Fox
Anthony Deangelo
Rasmus Ristolainen
Matt Dumba

If you take out last year because you're assuming he returns to a 45-55 point player, he scored at a .63 point per game rate. For right handed defensemen with more than 50 games, that puts him at 11th. Of those 11, the players that are 26 or younger are:

Seth Jones

So you can make the case that Makar will probably continue to be better, Adam Fox may continue to be better, Anthony Deangelo may continue to be better, Ristolainen is a possibility but not likely.

Dumba is also better defensively than Deangelo and Ristolainen, so we'll say overall he has more value.

When you're in the company of guys like Cale Makar, Seth Jones, you're probably pretty valuable.

Of course the only reason some of these guys are even mentioned is because of his down year, and I get that, and it's valid for a team looking to acquire him, but that doesn't mean we should be trading him for the likes of Danault, RNH, etc. The smarter option may well be to keep him, hope he rebounds, and get much better centers in return.

 

[AKL]

Well my posts have solely been in regards to Monahan here. I don’t necessarily disagree with you on the others though.

If Dumba returns to form, he's a top 10-15 RHD in the league with age on his side. Monahan probably comes in around 30th give or take for centers.

He's going to need another season to get to that level, if he ever does.

Yes that's what "if he returns to form" means, thank you.

 

[Menzinger]

If Dumba returns to form, he's a top 10-15 RHD in the league with age on his side. Monahan probably comes in around 30th give or take for centers.



Yes that's what "if he returns to form" means, thank you.

And with another year less of term in that deal for that to happen.

if you expect a team to trade you a mid 20s 1C for a D man only signed for 2 years, you're going to be in for a rude awakening.

 

[AKL]

And with another year less of term in that deal for that to happen.

if you expect a team to trade you a mid 20s 1C for a D man only signed for 2 years, you're going to be in for a rude awakening.

You have no idea what I'm expecting.

 

[Sota Popinski]

And with another year less of term in that deal for that to happen.

if you expect a team to trade you a mid 20s 1C for a D man only signed for 2 years, you're going to be in for a rude awakening.

2.5 years = rental

 

[HighLifeMan]

If Dumba returns to form, he's a top 10-15 RHD in the league with age on his side. Monahan probably comes in around 30th give or take for centers.



Yes that's what "if he returns to form" means, thank you.

Monahan is a season removed from being the 11th highest scoring C in the league. He is the same age as Dumba.

 

[Legegendsofthenorth]

And with another year less of term in that deal for that to happen.

if you expect a team to trade you a mid 20s 1C for a D man only signed for 2 years, you're going to be in for a rude awakening.

We will see soon won't we

 

[AKL]

Monahan is a season removed from being the 11th highest scoring C in the league. He is the same age as Dumba.

Sure and if Dumba returns to form next year and Monahan has another 80 point season, we can discuss values then. If Dumba returns to form and Monahan continues to be a 60 point center, Dumba>Monahan.

I would be interested in hearing Flames fans opinions on the likelihood of Monahan being an 80 point player consistently though.

 

[Bazeek]

Sure and if Dumba returns to form next year and Monahan has another 80 point season, we can discuss values then. If Dumba returns to form and Monahan continues to be a 60 point center, Dumba>Monahan.

I would be interested in hearing Flames fans opinions on the likelihood of Monahan being an 80 point player consistently though.

Especially away from Gaudreau.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Especially away from Gaudreau.

Do we think Fiala is good or don’t we?

 

[Menzinger]

You have no idea what I'm expecting.

I suspect that is certainly the case if you think Dumba is worth more than Monahan

 

[AKL]

Do we think Fiala is good or don’t we?

I mean, I'm not going to say Fiala is on the same level as a guy who's nearly point per game through over 450 games and has a 99 point season, yet.

 

[HighLifeMan]

Sure and if Dumba returns to form next year and Monahan has another 80 point season, we can discuss values then. If Dumba returns to form and Monahan continues to be a 60 point center, Dumba>Monahan.

I would be interested in hearing Flames fans opinions on the likelihood of Monahan being an 80 point player consistently though.

If you are going to discredit Monahan’s big year then you also have to do the same for Dumba.

Monahan has otherwise proven to be a 30 goal, 60+ point player, while Dumba has shown to be 30+ point middle pairing defender.

 

[Bazeek]

Do we think Fiala is good or don’t we?

I think one way or another we'll be betting on strong wingers carrying flawed centers, so the hope will certainly be that guys like Fiala, Kaprizov, Boldy, Beckman, etc. can do that. Monahan's an added challenge because it's hard to tell the degree to which his production is a function of his play vs Gaudreau's. I still like him better than other options I've heard mentioned, but he's a risky guy to hitch your wagon to. If he wasn't Calgary wouldn't consider trading him to begin with.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I find it hard to believe Monahan for Dumba is even on the table, let alone that Minnesota thinks they should be getting someone better. I think Monahan is worth quite a bit more

 

[Tkachuky]

Sure and if Dumba returns to form next year and Monahan has another 80 point season, we can discuss values then. If Dumba returns to form and Monahan continues to be a 60 point center, Dumba>Monahan.

I would be interested in hearing Flames fans opinions on the likelihood of Monahan being an 80 point player consistently though.

Monahan is very consistent. Will he get 80 every year? Probably not. But he sure is a consistent 30goal scorer.

At the end Of the day, Monahan’s proven more in his career than Dumba has in terms of production.

As a Flames fan I would lose my mind if we traded Monahan for Dumba.

 

[Bazeek]

I find it hard to believe Monahan for Dumba is even on the table, let alone that Minnesota thinks they should be getting someone better. I think Monahan is worth quite a bit more

Just to back up a second, here's the actual quote (from about 12:20 in Part 2):

KaprizovClub asks "Who is currently the biggest frontrunner for Dumba?" To me... I can't answer that question, I really don't know. The one thing that I do think is that Calgary has inquired and I think the Wild would be interested in Monahan, but I again, if I'm Billy Guerin I hold tight and try to let a lot of these offers stack up."

I doubt he knows what has or hasn't been discussed between any of these teams regarding Dumba. The point was more that there shouldn't be a rush to pull the trigger on anything; wait it out until someone meets your price.

 

[AKL]

If you are going to discredit Monahan’s big year then you also have to do the same for Dumba.

Monahan has otherwise proven to be a 30 goal, 60+ point player, while Dumba has shown to be 30+ point middle pairing defender.

That's actually not how it works, because they're two different players in different circumstances. I know very well the circumstances surrounding Dumba that make him more than "a 30 point player."

I'm a little bit familiar with Monahan and his circumstances, but like I said, would be interested in hearing more from Flames fans about Monahan and his likelihood of being an 80 point player versus a 60 point player versus something else without Gaudreau.

 

[Tkachuky]

I think one way or another we'll be betting on strong wingers carrying flawed centers, so the hope will certainly be that guys like Fiala, Kaprizov, Boldy, Beckman, etc. can do that. Monahan's an added challenge because it's hard to tell the degree to which his production is a function of his play vs Gaudreau's. I still like him better than other options I've heard mentioned, but he's a risky guy to hitch your wagon to. If he wasn't Calgary wouldn't consider trading him to begin with.

This is where it’s all fan speculation and guys Like Russo speculating Monahan as return for Dumba. Obviously fits the want of the wild but that doesn’t mean Flames are putting Monahan on the table.