Post-Game Talk: Ducks @ Sens

[Pierre from Orleans]

Many times this seasons Spezza has neglected his defensive responsibilities. How many games has he been -2 or -3? A lot. No one is close to giving up the amount of goals he does.

He's had issues in almost every game, including last night. Remember the Oilers game?

Zibanejad?

A 1A-1B scenario with 2 60 point two-way centres would be nice.

Plus minus is a team stat

 

[HockeySens]

I am a Spezza supporter and I thought he was at the level of Getzlaf but seeing Getzlaf battle hard, play defensively and not turn the puck over like Spezza makes me feel like an idiot thiking Spezza = Getzlaf.

 

[WhiteLight*]

Plus minus is a team stat

Let's ignore +/-


Let's look at GA when on this ice only. How come Spezza is so much worse than everyone?

 

[bert]

The numbers just aren't there. He doesn't get enough touches and show his skill. He rarely carries the puck. He can't handle the puck in traffic or protect the puck and fend off defenders.

He plays like a top 6 power forward/grinder, like Mike Knuble or Ryane Clowe, except he's nowhere near their size and strength and that's a huge disadvantage. His style would work a lot better if he was bigger.

In fact his numbers are there, he doesn't play like the players you mentioned they are slow he is lightning fast, they are big he is small terrible comparison.

I am fine with Greening playing with Spezza but for the love of god please at least bump Conacher or Mika up every time on the power play.

If I have to see #4 on a power play again this season I am going to lose my mind.

I just cant watch Gryba any more.... WHY DOES HE THINK HE IS AN OFFENSIVE D MAN. Shoot the puck off the glass stop playing with it get rid of it you're slow and dumb. He is absolutely KILLING this team, even against Detroit he had that great first but throws them back into the game with a BACK HAND SAUCE up the middle on the PK. Would Karlsson even try that? Send him down please its disgusting, by putting him back out there over and over again other players think its ok to play like this its not ok.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

It's really hard to pin much on Spezza so far this season. He's coming off an injury and taking over for one of the longest serving captains in the league is one hell of a burden to put on someone. Add in that brutal western trip and you have the makings of a disaster. So far, he's come through it quite well.

I wouldn't trade Spezza this season unless there's a massive overpayment...which would be highly unlikely.

But....with a wonky back he's one of those guys who could decline very quickly. I'm not sure if he will still be a first line quality player 3-4 years down the road. His contract expires at the end of next season....if he does get one of those 5+ year deals that's equal or greater than what he makes now, it could turn out of be one heck of a bad deal for the Sens.

I'm really not sure what the Sens should do with him on a long-term basis.

 

[sensfandan]

Matching him up vs Getzlaf is just asking for trouble.

No kidding, Spezza can't handle the Getzlaf's, Datsyuk's... Oh wait. What you need to realize, is that when you're matched up with the other teams best players, some nights you'll look bad, and some nights you'll make them look bad. He's also gotten very little support from his wingers so far.

 

[WhiteLight*]

In fact his numbers are there, he doesn't play like the players you mentioned they are slow he is lightning fast, they are big he is small terrible comparison.

His numbers definitely not there. 2 points in 10 games. ? That's not top 6 material.

Conacher goes to the dirty areas, plants himself in front of the net and is far from the main puck handler on his line. If he was 6'5 220 lbs his style would be much more effective and he would produce like a top 6.

Speed and size are the only differences between him and those guys.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I just pointed to one soft, lazy play that led directly to a goal against.

Alfredsson may have been a lot of things, but lazy and soft were never on his list.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Many times this seasons Spezza has neglected his defensive responsibilities. How many games has he been -2 or -3? A lot. No one is close to giving up the amount of goals he does.

He's had issues in almost every game, including last night. Remember the Oilers game?



Zibanejad?

A 1A-1B scenario with 2 60 point two-way centres would be nice.

You know what's even better? Having a point per game center, and a couple solid 2 way ceters in the 2 and 3 slots.

Or do u not remember Bonk, WHite and Smolinksi?

 

[alfierulestheworld]

I dunno, Cowen?

The #2 hole needs an upgrade big time, Sens won't be contenders with this defense. Unless we see major development from Cowen and Wiercioch. Not likely.



It doesn't mean an automatic victory obviously. in last night's particular game, if Spezza was not dressed, I think the Sens would have at least got a point.

I'm not blaming Spezza because he's not scoring. It's his defense. He HURTS the team.

Please add "its all Spezza's fault" to the poll choices.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Let's ignore +/-


Let's look at GA when on this ice only. How come Spezza is so much worse than everyone?

Ok and how much of those goals against are directly a cause of Spezza?

 

[branch]

I just feel like this Spezza bashing is going to end up biting the entire city and fanbase on the ass very soon. We would all be stupid to believe that Spezza himself doesn't hear all the criticism, bashing and vitriol. It is a city with a small town feel. Everyone hears everything. I don't know if he feels victimised (but maybe he should). The guy is who he is. He is a high risk player. And when it comes to next July, what happens if he is tired of hearing all this ********, and decides to sign elsewhere? We would be out a number one centre.

 

[bert]

The players didn't really support eachother as well as they did against Detroit (or, to be fair, the Ducks disrupted very well): the tendency to go for long passes makes it too easy for the opposition to pick them off.

It's pretty frustrating that we lost due to that absolutely horrible Karlsson giveaway: he had a pretty good game but that misplay was horrendous.

They lost because of so many stupid decisions, with the puck without it but especially the discipline. Absolutely pathetic, you could find a more intelligent peewee team.

 

[bert]

His numbers definitely not there. 2 points in 10 games. ? That's not top 6 material.

Conacher goes to the dirty areas, plants himself in front of the net and is far from the main puck handler on his line. If he was 6'5 220 lbs his style would be much more effective and he would produce like a top 6.

Speed and size are the only differences between him and those guys.

Pretty big differences in a hockey player and that's not just me that's everyone.

'If Theo Fleury were tall he'd be like malkin' ah what

His production the past 2 seasons prior were top 6 player moving up and transitioning to the NHL. He gets icetime like a 3rd and 4th liner with very little powerplay on a team that doesn't score very much. How do you suggest he produces?

 

[Xspyrit]

They're not done developing. Yes I was mostly talking about this year. But Cowen and/or Wiercioch developing into a #2 is anything but guaranteed. It's still a question mark long term.

Of course, but so far Cowen is at least a #4 and Wiercioch #5. I think it's safe to say both will be at least top-4 D-men. And then we have Karlsson, Methot, Ceci and Wikstrand

Could round out a nice defense in 2 years.

Cowen-Karlsson
Methot-Ceci
Wiercioch-Wikstrand
Gryba/Borowiecki

At what does the team need to take a step forward? You can't just stay at the same level indefinitely.

Sucks because I accidentally closed my window so I'm not going to retype it all but shortly :

Realistically, only time and money can help

We started drafting well again in 2008. Look at our 2008 and 2009 drafts... It is just starting to pay off so give it a bit more time and let them grow as pro hockey players and wait for other recent draftees to make an impact... If Karlsson, Silfverberg, Lehner, Wiercioch, Cowen, Pageau, Zibanejad, etc are an indication of what this drafting team can do, be hopeful for our other prospects too

Hopefully, ownership is ready to spend more when it will be wise to do so.

Come again?

I have a ''hate'' for one dimensional forwards like Spezza and a love for two-way beasts like Turris.

It was more a joke than anything, but had to do with your Nuge mancrush and "way of thinking, NHL management wise"

Also, it took you a while to like Turris, be honest. You were calling it an horrible trade for a while. I did the same when the trade happened (was a big Rundblad fan like most), but I was guilty of reacting too quickly (not in my habits though)... A few hours after with some research and thinking, I was warming up to the trade. Once I saw Turris play a few games for the Sens, I knew we had a gem

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

As much as I hate Spezza's defensively ability, I actually think he is getting better and better each game defensively.

He was great on PK.

He is learning what it takes to be as a captain.

Alfredsson wasn't all that amazing until his mid 30's.

Yzerman was ok defensively until later on his captaincy years or towards the end of his career.

The real question is... does Spezza create offensive opportunities that allow us to accept his defensive shortcomings sometimes? The answer is yes.

Unless we have a trade lined up like:

Spezza for Couture and something, you simply don't move Spezza.

Now... if Spezza stops performing offensively for long stretches... then you start questioning him.

Although I understand it does get frustrating consistently watching his horrid decisions on defense I think he'll improve.

 

[blahblah3]

I didn't think that Spezza was that horrendous last night, as he has played far worse this season. He was giving the puck away and floating around out there, per usual, but the whole team was turning the puck over, and he did generate some chances. At this point his lack of defensive play should warrant a benching, but I think coaches have given up on trying to change him.

IF he is to be judged by what everyone else was doing, then wasn't significantly worse. He is rapidly turning into a firm number 2 center, as both Turris and Ziban are out playing him regularly. If he is going to play "high risk" then he can't get away with hanging out mid ice, and letting other people back check. It sets a bad example.

 

[HSF]

and here i thought Spezza and Ryan have been our best forwards this season

 

[Super Cake]

Maybe somebody should just create a spezza bashing thread so all the spezza bashers can finally go nuts with their spezza bashing.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Plus minus is a team stat

Not really, it's fairly accurate.

 

[Benjamin]

5 on 5, Spezza is not effective.

 

[Micklebot]

Not really, it's fairly accurate.

Accurate at what exactly? Certainly it has nothing to offer after 10 games, unless of course you believe Joe Corvo has been the best 2-way player on the team.

 

[Quo]

Your link is messed up Benny.

 

[Micklebot]

5 on 5, Spezza is not effective.

Well, I would rephrase that as the Spezza Michalek, Ryan line was not effective. (nor was the short lived reunification of Greening Spezza Michalek)

His numbers with Conacher and Michalek have been surprisingly good, though through a small sample.

In the end, 10 games (the start of which he was clearly playing though a minor injury) is not enough to pass judgement imo.

 

[Benjamin]

Your link is messed up Benny.

Works for me.

Well, I would rephrase that as the Spezza Michalek, Ryan line was not effective. (nor was the short lived reunification of Greening Spezza Michalek)

His numbers with Conacher and Michalek have been surprisingly good, though through a small sample.

In the end, 10 games (the start of which he was clearly playing though a minor injury) is not enough to pass judgement imo.

Michalek has definitely held Spezza back. Same with Greening the last 2 games.

Still dont like seeing Spezza being on the ice for the most for goals against. Even if its only been 10 games.