Rumor: "Duchene's agent is seriously unhappy with Sakic's foot-dragging on a deal"

[PhoenyX]

After all this time, you'd think Sakic would realize no one is going to pay the price he's demanding for Duchene. I hate to say it, but he just isn't going to get the return he wants. Duchene will bring back a good player, but someone isn't going to pay the kings ransom Sakic is wanting. If the price drops a bit, you will see multiple teams get very interested.

I agree. I think the Avs should hold on to him and hope that he has a bounce back year to increase his value.

 

[Riseonfire]

I agree. I think the Avs should hold on to him and hope that he has a bounce back year to increase his value.

But if they hold on too long he enters the 'Long Rental' category.

2 full years of Duchene > 1 year + 1 playoff run.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

After all this time, you'd think Sakic would realize no one is going to pay the price he's demanding for Duchene. I hate to say it, but he just isn't going to get the return he wants. Duchene will bring back a good player, but someone isn't going to pay the kings ransom Sakic is wanting. If the price drops a bit, you will see multiple teams get very interested.

If Sakic doesn't get a LHD, what's the incentive to move Duchene now, rather than keeping him? Even if Duchene doesn't rebound, he's still infinitely better than whoever the Avs could sign through UFA. What's the problem with keeping him, letting him fill that spot, and trying to move him at the 2018 draft, or 2019 TDL? I'm sure Duchene will still return a package of pieces the Avs don't really need, but would be nice to have, if/when he's moved in a year+.

 

[Pacman33]

Again, Isles would trade those prospects, but won't be sending you two 1st round picks along with ONE of them.

Droiun was just traded for ONE elite prospect. Why should the Isles offer more than that?

Too be fair high end d prospects are the highest valued thing in the nhl at this point. Sergy and barzal are prob similar prospects but because one is a defenseman and one is a center, sergy carried more value. Also drouin is still mostly projection. He hasnt had an elite season that people think he can. I like drouin but hes a much bigger injury risk as well. Head is down way too much. Drouin also is a winger which is bottom of the totem pole in posistional value. People overpay for defenseman and centers. Youve been pretty reasonalbe imo just saying drouin isnt a perfect comparison

 

[Dipietro39]

If Sakic doesn't get a LHD, what's the incentive to move Duchene now, rather than keeping him? Even if Duchene doesn't rebound, he's still infinitely better than whoever the Avs could sign through UFA. What's the problem with keeping him, letting him fill that spot, and trying to move him at the 2018 draft, or 2019 TDL? I'm sure Duchene will still return a package of pieces the Avs don't really need, but would be nice to have, if/when he's moved in a year+.

Keep him? After dragging his name through the rumor mill for a year and his agent coming out and criticizing Sakic. I'm sure that would work out just fine. It's Sakic's fault this whole situation has blown up. He should have came out and said we are NOT trading Matt Duchene. Would you want to work at your job when you know your boss doesn't want you there anymore?

 

[Dipietro39]

Too be fair high end d prospects are the highest valued thing in the nhl at this point. Sergy and barzal are prob similar prospects but because one is a defenseman and one is a center, sergy carried more value. Also drouin is still mostly projection. He hasnt had an elite season that people think he can. I like drouin but hes a much bigger injury risk as well. Head is down way too much. Drouin also is a winger which is bottom of the totem pole in posistional value. People overpay for defenseman and centers. Youve been pretty reasonalbe imo just saying drouin isnt a perfect comparison

Fair. So let's say market value would warrant Barzal + 1st or Beau + 1st + 2nd. Not multiple high end prospects AND multiple picks.

 

[cgf]

Again, Isles would trade those prospects, but won't be sending you two 1st round picks along with ONE of them.

Droiun was just traded for ONE elite prospect. Why should the Isles offer more than that?

A) because Duchene is a Center, unlike Drouin, and so holds quite a bit more value

B) because Duchene is a Center who has become an elite faceoff guy and strong two-way player; though Drouin's two-way play is often under-rated, there is a significant gap to Duchene's. Plus Duchene is bigger and a lot stronger with a power game...that Drouin will never be able to develop...to go with speed/skill game that both broke into the league playing; which has helped turn Duchene into a much better goal scorer, even though Drouin may be even more dynamic & versatile as a playmaker.

C) because Duchene has hit levels in the NHL that Drouin has yet to scratch with any sort of consistency. So it's not unreasonable for a GM to think that him returning to those levels on a functional team, with a fresh start, is a safer bet than Drouin continuing to progress in his development towards the exceptional upside he has.

and finally; D) because Barzal is the only one of those prospect with similar value to a bluechip defensive prospect like Sergachev. Which is also why you'll find that if Barzal is the prospect, a lot more avs fans would be content with only one of the 1sts and a 2nd, while being willing to retain on Duchene & take a cap dump...at least amongst those of us who are open to package that do not include a potential #1 LHD.

Beauvillier, Ho Sang, and Sorokin are really exciting A-prospects, but none of them is a bluechip Center or Dman; that really is the crux of it. Star goalies don't have anywhere near the value of star Centers or Dmen, just like Starting goalies don't have the value of star Cs & Ds, and the same is true of bluechip goalie prospects...especially ones who's desire to play in NA is in question. And though I love Beauvillier and would love to have him joining any of our future duos up front (MacK & Mikko | Landy & Jost | Greer & Compher) he isn't a bluechip top line C either; same for ho sang. Those are sweet prospects that it would be nice to get our hands on; but they don't hold the value that your Sergachev or Barzal or Dubois's do.

 

[EdAVSfan]

But if they hold on too long he enters the 'Long Rental' category.

2 full years of Duchene > 1 year + 1 playoff run.

Hmm, what about the re-sign-ability factor in the second half of your equation.

 

[IslandersFan17]

Keep him? After dragging his name through the rumor mill for a year and his agent coming out and criticizing Sakic. I'm sure that would work out just fine. It's Sakic's fault this whole situation has blown up. He should have came out and said we are NOT trading Matt Duchene. Would you want to work at your job when you know your boss doesn't want you there anymore?

I think this has reached the point of insanity. It's the same thing over and over and we are expecting different results.

Islanders and Avs aren't good trading partners. It's that simple. Their fan base is delusional as is their GM.

Let them stay their course and we will look elsewhere.

This has gone in circles since the TDL.

Once they get their massive package they want that turns their franchise around, we can revisit all of this.

 

[Konk]

No, because I don't really care, and it doesn't prove your point anyway. I said I expect the winds to shift, not that they already have.

Typical.

When proven wrong, you suddenly don't care. Right.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Keep him? After dragging his name through the rumor mill for a year and his agent coming out and criticizing Sakic. I'm sure that would work out just fine. It's Sakic's fault this whole situation has blown up. He should have came out and said we are NOT trading Matt Duchene. Would you want to work at your job when you know your boss doesn't want you there anymore?

Sakic refuted the claims that he was trying to trade Duchene at the TDL. He explicitly stated that he wasn't looking to make any big moves, wasn't going to make a move just to make a move, and that he wasn't the one bringing up Duchene in conversations. But, keep repeating the same baseless claims.

And, considering I work in IT, with the constant, looming threat of outsourcing, yes, I want to work at my job, knowing full well that my job is not secure. I like money.

 

[vorbis]

I really think COL supporters should move on from the idea of Hanifin being the main piece in a Duchene trade. you'd save yourself a headache by looking elsewhere in the Canes prospect pipeline, or seeking other trading partners.

it's pretty clear Ron Francis sees him as a big part of the future, and rightfully so. Francis's management personality focuses on being quite content to use smaller deals to shuffle roster assets around, while playing a patient game and letting rostered, young NHLers percolate through game experience under Bill Peters.

Hanifin's development, contract status, and role on the team all align pretty neatly for the next 3-4 years at least. he's not going anywhere unless [Avs-player-of-higher-value-than-Duchene] is involved.

 

[Konk]

A) because Duchene is a Center, unlike Drouin, and so holds quite a bit more value

B) because Duchene is a Center who has become an elite faceoff guy and strong two-way player; though Drouin's two-way play is often under-rated, there is a significant gap to Duchene's. Plus Duchene is bigger and a lot stronger with a power game...that Drouin will never be able to develop...to go with speed/skill game that both broke into the league playing; which has helped turn Duchene into a much better goal scorer, even though Drouin may be even more dynamic & versatile as a playmaker.

C) because Duchene has hit levels in the NHL that Drouin has yet to scratch with any sort of consistency. So it's not unreasonable for a GM to think that him returning to those levels on a functional team, with a fresh start, is a safer bet than Drouin continuing to progress in his development towards the exceptional upside he has.

and finally; D) because Barzal is the only one of those prospect with similar value to a bluechip defensive prospect like Sergachev. Which is also why you'll find that if Barzal is the prospect, a lot more avs fans would be content with only one of the 1sts and a 2nd, while being willing to retain on Duchene & take a cap dump...at least amongst those of us who are open to package that do not include a potential #1 LHD.

Beauvillier, Ho Sang, and Sorokin are really exciting A-prospects, but none of them is a bluechip Center or Dman.

Did you all of the sudden forget that Drouin has term and Duchene does not?

Once again Avs fans ignoring two years until UFA as if it does not exist. Drouin is 22 years old with term. Duchene is 26 with 2 years left, expiration status = UFA.

Once you learn this, you will realize why Drouin returns Sergachev and Duchene will not return a similarly rated prospect. Period.

 

[EdAVSfan]

I think this has reached the point of insanity. It's the same thing over and over and we are expecting different results.

Islanders and Avs aren't good trading partners. It's that simple. Their fan base is delusional as is their GM.

Let them stay their course and we will look elsewhere.

This has gone in circles since the TDL.

Once they get their massive package they want that turns their franchise around, we can revisit all of this.

This post was perfect, except for the "delusional" sentence.

It hits the nail on the head.

I mean seriously, if the price is so outrageous, please look elsewhere.

I still can't understand why so many isles fans seem so upset with all this. A GM is possibly overvaluing his player, but it's not your GM, and it's not your team.

Is it really just, " we want to duchene, and we want him at our price because we think it's reasonable, but because Joe is saying no, we're pissed off."

Is this really it? Because this is the sense I'm getting.

I'm sure there are many centers available at a discounted price. Go get any one of them. Why the obsession with Duchene?

 

[IslandersFan17]

This post was perfect, except for the "delusional" sentence.

It hits the nail on the head.

I mean seriously, if the price is so outrageous, please look elsewhere.

I still can't understand why so many isles fans seem so upset with all this. A GM is possibly overvaluing his player, but it's not your GM, and it's not your team.

Is it really just, " we want to duchene, and we want him at our price because we think it's reasonable, but because Joe is saying no, we're pissed off."

Is this really it? Because this is the sense I'm getting.

Well I mean MD's agent isn't happy with Sakic, the media has already made it clear on the stance with Sakic. So it's not just islanders fans being upset with Sakic, but the fact Sakic is a **** poor GM and it's tI'm to move on.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Duchene is a professional, he understands that the NHL is also a business. Every player knows that they could be traded, which is why some get NMC and some accept that if they are to be traded they will be.

To me, Duchene's response to this situation next season will be the same regardless of team. I think he's going to come out and want to light the NHL on fire. The question is if Colorado will be in a state of affairs he is capable of doing that or not.

Based on what other team's fans are telling us, his value can't get any worse. If we trade him now, it's barely a 1st and decent prospect. He will walk in 2 years so that's all he is worth. He's also a 40 point player.

But if we trade him in a year, maybe he's back to being a ~60 point player and he can be extended by the team acquiring him. Maybe the Avs keep him because they rebound with an injection of youth and a healthy Varly. Maybe, just maybe, we get TDL prices like a middle 1st and decent prospect for him. Like are being offered right now...

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I really think COL supporters should move on from the idea of Hanifin being the main piece in a Duchene trade. you'd save yourself a headache by looking elsewhere in the Canes prospect pipeline, or seeking other trading partners.

it's pretty clear Ron Francis sees him as a big part of the future, and rightfully so. Francis's management personality focuses on being quite content to use smaller deals to shuffle roster assets around, while playing a patient game and letting rostered, young NHLers percolate through game experience under Bill Peters.

Hanifin's development, contract status, and role on the team all align pretty neatly for the next 3-4 years at least. he's not going anywhere unless [Avs-player-of-higher-value-than-Duchene] is involved.

I think most Avs fans have accepted that Hanifin isn't going to happen, but he's still the best example of what it would likely take for Duchene to get moved, based on everything Sakic has said and done to this point.

With that said, just because Hanifin is off the table doesn't mean Sakic is going to do a 180 and trade Duchene for the best package he can get. Patience seems to be the plan for now.

 

[cgf]

Barzal is untouchable. He's the best Islanders prospect since Tavares in 2009.

Ho-Sang and Sorokin are not worth the price tag you'd want to put on them. You want them cheap, one of 3-4 premium assets to be packaged together for Duchene. If Sakic insists on either of these players as a Duchene return, the other pieces that come with it are not going to be as valuable.

Beauvillier I'd hesitate to trade but at this point I feel he might be our only realistic trade chip to build a Duchene return around.

Adding 2 1sts from bubble teams who made significant additions this offseason on top of those prospects, isn't 3-4 premium assets. That's 3 damn good assets, not elite ones, and a 2nd if it's Sorokin. I'm not here peddling Meloche or Bigras as premium assets just because both are very smart top 4 prospects who could play 2nd fiddle to a legit #1. So let's not try to hide what's really being offered behind phrasing that makes it seem like we're demanding 3-4 bluechip Cs/Ds or top 10 picks.

Then there's the what could he get as a pure rental factor. If the difference between Duchene's pure rental value and the trade you're proposing is one non-bluechip asset; then what's the incentive to make the move now, instead of letting him shelter our prospects for a little longer and seeing if his value can't rebound enough so that he can return that potential #1 LHD that Sakic started taking calls on Duchene to get?

It's also important to note the difference between what specific avs fans will settle for; and what it'll take to get hesitant-Joe to pull the trigger...which is what someone like JoemAvs is talking about.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Well I mean MD's agent isn't happy with Sakic, the media has already made it clear on the stance with Sakic. So it's not just islanders fans being upset with Sakic, but the fact Sakic is a **** poor GM and it's tI'm to move on.

Lol, but he's the GM of the avs. If he's negatively affecting The AVS, why are Islander fans so upset. I mean, why aren't Carolina or Nashville fans upset? They were rumoured to be interested as well.

He's being stubborn. That's his right. He's in the position.

But the general anger towards him is astounding. It really makes no sense why fanbases who have no affiliation with the player or team, other than some rumours, seem so irate.

 

[cgf]

But if they hold on too long he enters the 'Long Rental' category.

2 full years of Duchene > 1 year + 1 playoff run.

If he really wants out of colorado, he'll agree to sign an extension with his new team next offseason. Which would turn him into a 5-7 year rental next summer...which > a 2 year rental.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Well I mean MD's agent isn't happy with Sakic, the media has already made it clear on the stance with Sakic. So it's not just islanders fans being upset with Sakic, but the fact Sakic is a **** poor GM and it's tI'm to move on.

How many agents are happy with every GM in the league? Do good GMs let the media tell them what to do? Why are these reasons for Sakic to give Duchene to the Islanders for something we don't really need, even if it would be nice to have picks and prospects?

 

[CodeE]

A) because Duchene is a Center, unlike Drouin, and so holds quite a bit more value

B) because Duchene is a Center who has become an elite faceoff guy and strong two-way player; though Drouin's two-way play is often under-rated, there is a significant gap to Duchene's. Plus Duchene is bigger and a lot stronger with a power game...that Drouin will never be able to develop...to go with speed/skill game that both broke into the league playing; which has helped turn Duchene into a much better goal scorer, even though Drouin may be even more dynamic & versatile as a playmaker.

C) because Duchene has hit levels in the NHL that Drouin has yet to scratch with any sort of consistency. So it's not unreasonable for a GM to think that him returning to those levels on a functional team, with a fresh start, is a safer bet than Drouin continuing to progress in his development towards the exceptional upside he has.

and finally; D) because Barzal is the only one of those prospect with similar value to a bluechip defensive prospect like Sergachev. Which is also why you'll find that if Barzal is the prospect, a lot more avs fans would be content with only one of the 1sts and a 2nd, while being willing to retain on Duchene & take a cap dump...at least amongst those of us who are open to package that do not include a potential #1 LHD.

Beauvillier, Ho Sang, and Sorokin are really exciting A-prospects, but none of them is a bluechip Center or Dman.

People on hfboards write these long, long posts that only exist to hyping up their own guy and downgrading the other team's guys. The words may be different but the intent is as clear as hundreds if not thousands of posts I've seen hyping Jordan Eberle, hyping JVR, hyping Nathan Beaulieu, forever.

The problem is you want to be 100% in charge of deciding the value. You want to set Duchene's price tag as high as can be, then replace the sticker gun with the "clearance" stickers and start tagging Islanders players. He isn't good enough. Isles fans are overrating him. He'll never be as good as Duchene, not ever. We don't want him. We don't want him either. None of them are bluechip. None of them fit into what the Avalanche are building.

Which again, all falls into the pattern. Hype my players, trash your players. Hype my players, trash your players. You'll take Eberle for Hamonic because we've decided among ourselves the value of both assets - Eberle is more valuable than you think and Hamonic is less valuable than you think. Ryan Strome? Total bust, complete disaster, wouldn't take him on the Oilers for free.

The strengths and weaknesses of Matt Duchene that would affect his trade value have been highlighted, you're not convincing a single non-Avalanche fan he's as valuable as you claim he is. That unwillingness to step outside of the echo chamber for an instant and admit that this situation is severely hurting Duchene's value is what will make it so embarrassing when Duchene doesn't come close to returning an asset with Barzal's value.

 

[Riseonfire]

Hmm, what about the re-sign-ability factor in the second half of your equation.

.......what about it? If we wait a few days all 30 teams have that same re-signability. It's not worth much.

 

[Pacman33]

Were never going to come to an agreement between avs/isles fans. Think there is some serious overvaluing by both sides. Avs fans have an emotional attachment to a lifelong avs fan is duchene. I will never forget the duchene fist pump on draft day because the lightning chose hedman over him. Isles fans are attached to their prospects which is fair as well. Im a guy that loves potential so prospects are exciting. Prospects are hard to value. I like barzal but i also dont value him as much as most because i value goal scorers and barzal is more of a playmaker. Doesnt make him a bad prospect at all, just a different type of player than i prefer. Duchenes value is hard to judge because we dont know how much weight other gms are putting on last seasons disaster. It will be very interesting if duchene does get moved, just what he does being back

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

People on hfboards write these long, long posts that only exist to hyping up their own guy and downgrading the other team's guys. The words may be different but the intent is as clear as hundreds if not thousands of posts I've seen hyping Jordan Eberle, hyping JVR, hyping Nathan Beaulieu, forever.

The problem is you want to be 100% in charge of deciding the value. You want to set Duchene's price tag as high as can be, then replace the sticker gun with the "clearance" stickers and start tagging Islanders players. He isn't good enough. Isles fans are overrating him. He'll never be as good as Duchene, not ever. We don't want him. We don't want him either. None of them are bluechip. None of them fit into what the Avalanche are building.

Which again, all falls into the pattern. Hype my players, trash your players. Hype my players, trash your players. You'll take Eberle for Hamonic because we've decided among ourselves the value of both assets - Eberle is more valuable than you think and Hamonic is less valuable than you think. Ryan Strome? Total bust, complete disaster, wouldn't take him on the Oilers for free.

The strengths and weaknesses of Matt Duchene that would affect his trade value have been highlighted, you're not convincing a single non-Avalanche fan he's as valuable as you claim he is. That unwillingness to step outside of the echo chamber for an instant and admit that this situation is severely hurting Duchene's value is what will make it so embarrassing when Duchene doesn't come close to returning an asset with Barzal's value.

Thank you for your concern. We, as Avs fans, will take consolation in the fact that you cared so much about our well being, while we're crying ourselves to sleep when Duchene is finally traded. It's obvious that you're only focused on our mental and emotional health, and didn't have any ulterior motives in trying to get Duchene on your team. It was fully out of the kindness of your heart, and we'll never forget it.