Rumor: "Duchene's agent is seriously unhappy with Sakic's foot-dragging on a deal"

[The Abusement Park]

"We don't need cost controlled promising prospects", said no team ever....

Well in that case, we'll give you Bigras and Greer for Tavares. You might as well pick up as many cost controlled assets as possible right?

 

[member 157595]

Which is why the conversations Brisson (Duchene's agent) is having with Carolina & Nashville are so important. If those teams are convinced they'll be able to sign Matt to an extension next summer, then they'll be more comfortable paying up. And if Carolina puts Hanifin on the table I'm sure they could get Colorado to add in a top 4 prospect like Bigras to join Fleury & Bean in backfilling their D; take back Lack's contract; and even retain 50% on Duchene if that moves the needle. If the avs do all of that they may ask to upgrade a middle-6 PWF prospect like Morrison / Beaudin to a top-6 PWF prospect like Gauthier, but I doubt that's a deal breaker for Sakic.

If those Brisson - Francis talks have gone positively and Carolina's concerns about an extension are assuaged; I don't think something like this is all that unreasonable:

Duchene @ 50% retained + Bigras (+ Morrison?) <---> Hanifin + Lack (+ Gauthier?)

Avs get the piece they need most, while possibly upgrading one of our PWF prospects; Carolina gets the piece they need most, while backfilling some of the defensive talent they are shipping out and moving out Lack's contract. Carolina's D may struggle a little for depth to start the year, but with Fleury, Bigras & Bean on the cusp of the NHL; it'll be back to being a major strength by season's end; plus their forward core would become a lot less of a liability. We'll struggle to score goals, but at least our D of the future would be set with Hanifin, Makar, Zadorov, Meloche, Timmins and a handful on intriguing bottom pairing prospects...even if Barrie is the next core player out the door.

In theory, that's a fair deal for an extended Duchene in my opinion. Would benefit both parties. Carolina takes a very significant risk that Duchene's mind doesn't change by the time he's eligible for an extension, but for the sake of argument let's assume it doesn't. I think both teams would benefit from that deal in theory.

This is pretty much exactly what Sabres fans told us.

And if Duchene does end up an isle, I expect the winds to shift on how great Barzal is pretty quickly. I've seen this before.

I absolutely hate that aspect of this site. Players are brilliant on your team, not needed once they're moved. It's so hypocritical but it happens all the time. Whoever gets Duchene is getting a really good player.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I absolutely hate that aspect of this site. Players are brilliant on your team, not needed once they're moved. It's so hypocritical but it happens all the time. Whoever gets Duchene is getting a really good player.

Yeah we know... and weird as it sounds, we don't wanna give him up for just anything.

 

[cgf]

This is pretty much exactly what Sabres fans told us.

And if Duchene does end up an isle, I expect the winds to shift on how great Barzal is pretty quickly. I've seen this before.

If Duchene was going to end up an Isle, we'd already be hearing stories coming from the east questioning Barzal's dedication & work ethic, or articles trying to downplay his actual upside (likely pointing to how long it's taken him to get NHL ready). Just like we saw start coming out of Buffalo before they gave up their big, creative LHD with #1 potential...who promptly turned into a just-solid top 4 guy, should he ever grow a brain...Since we aren't getting those stories, the Islanders aren't going to put Barzal on the table and I can't see Joe settling for less.

Personally I'd be ok with Sorokin (if we got the feeling he would come over to be Varly's understudy in a year or two) + CGY 1st + NYI 1st + one of their 2nds; take out the second if we got Beauvillier instead of Sorokin. But Joe won't go for that. There's just way to much risk of that trade never looking good for us; even if it gives us the ammo to secure the #1 LHD we prefer in next year's draft (assuming we don't luck into Dahlin), sets our goalie pipeline up very nicely, and gives us some extra shots at the premiere talent in next years draft that just so happens to be rotten with D & wingers (aka our two biggest needs).

But I think we've got an ok foundation up front (MacK-Mikko, Landy-Jost, Greer-Compher, is the start of a nice top 9), and on D I'm really only worried about filling that #1 LHD spot so that Zadorov can dominate all over the ice on the second pairing instead of getting pigeonholed in the shutdown role he played this past season next to EJ.

 

[Crede777]

I highly doubt Columbus is interested in Duchene if they are all in on Kovalchuk. I don't think there would be cap room for both unless Hartnell is either moved or bought out. They would be better off pursuing a less expensive player with similar production, like Sam Reinhart.

I think Kovy is the Plan B if they can't get someone like Duchene.

Also, I don't think Reinhart is less expensive unless you mean salary rather than cost to acquire.

 

[Jive Pawnbroker]

NSH, CAR, CBJ and a few other teams can easily beat your "fair offers" when push comes to shove because they actually have a few players/prospects that we really want (LHD prospects or in the case of CBJ Murray). And pretty sure they will just do that if Sakic is ever willing to settle to get this over with.

Again I'd say Columbus is not likely going to pursue Duchene if they are going all in on Kovalchuk because of the cap. If Jarmo lands Kovy, if he does add a center it will likely be a 2C like Reinhart who would have an affordable cap hit, which Duchene doesn't have in that case.

 

[Konk]

This is pretty much exactly what Sabres fans told us.

And if Duchene does end up an isle, I expect the winds to shift on how great Barzal is pretty quickly. I've seen this before.

Oh yeah? Go read the Hamonic trade thread. See if what Isles fans are saying about him there matches up with your drivel.

 

[tucker3434]

Oh yeah? Go read the Hamonic trade thread. See if what Isles fans are saying about him there matches up with your drivel.

No, because I don't really care, and it doesn't prove your point anyway. I said I expect the winds to shift, not that they already have.

 

[Jive Pawnbroker]

I think Kovy is the Plan B if they can't get someone like Duchene.

Also, I don't think Reinhart is less expensive unless you mean salary rather than cost to acquire.

Re Kovy, if Jarmo really is all in for Kovy, then i would consider that a Plan A. That said, who truly knows what Jarmo is thinking given his penchant for surprise trades like the one for Panarin.

Re Reinhart, yes less expensive in terms of salary vs the price to acquire. I would pay more in terms of assets for him vs. Duchene due to upside.

 

[islesfan186]

Personally I'd be ok with Sorokin (if we got the feeling he would come over to be Varly's understudy in a year or two) + CGY 1st + NYI 1st + one of their 2nds;

IMO Sorokin is untouchable. He is one of the best goalie prospects in the world. I don't think Snow will include Sorokin in any trade

 

[seabass45]

This is pretty much exactly what Sabres fans told us.

And if Duchene does end up an isle, I expect the winds to shift on how great Barzal is pretty quickly. I've seen this before.

You can quote me on this and save it for later: Barzal is our best prospect and it isn't even close and I'm dreading the idea of trading him only to turn into a stud elsewhere.

 

[tucker3434]

IMO Sorokin is untouchable. He is one of the best goalie prospects in the world. I don't think Snow will include Sorokin in any trade

See now this is getting ridiculous. You want a guy of Duchene's caliber but your top 3 prospects are off limits? How are we the ones being unreasonable here?

 

[Dipietro39]

See now this is getting ridiculous. You want a guy of Duchene's caliber but your top 3 prospects are off limits? How are we the ones being unreasonable here?

Barzal is the only one I wouldn't trade.

If you want one of the best prospects in the world, Sorokin, you aren't also getting 2 1st and 2 2nds.

Drouin had a better season than Duchene, is younger, was a RFA and only returned one elite prospect. If Avs fans don't think it matters where the market is trading, you are as delusional as your idiot GM. Duchene is a VERY GOOD player. He isn't a first team all-star or an Elite player.

 

[cgf]

In theory, that's a fair deal for an extended Duchene in my opinion. Would benefit both parties. Carolina takes a very significant risk that Duchene's mind doesn't change by the time he's eligible for an extension, but for the sake of argument let's assume it doesn't. I think both teams would benefit from that deal in theory.

Which is a reasonable point; but Brisson could be risking his sterling reputation if that happened, and that just doesn't sound like something Matt would do. I know none of us are in his head, and this is a highly stressful time for him; but we've followed Matt's every move for coming up on a decade now because he was the guy who was brought in to take over right after Sakic retired, and Matt really hit the ground running...despite our PP being atrocious more often than not. Backing out of a promise to the organization that rescued him from all of this drama would just be so extremely out of character for Duchene. So if Brisson & Francis can hammer out the framework for an extension now; I would not worry about it actually getting signed if I were a Canes fan & such a trade went down. That's just who Matt is.

Plus Carolina seems like the kind of place Duchene would love; and I wouldn't be surprised if it was high up his list of destinations...not far behind Nashville; who just so happen to be the other team who are staying quiet through all of this & are reported to be in contact with Brisson.

At this point I'll be surprised if Duchene is traded this summer and it's not to Carolina or Nashville unless Sakic gets a serious overpayment in futures. With CBJ being the third team I can see a deal happening with if I had to expand the list...although they seem to be looking into lesser alternatives atm and don't have the best fitting pieces themselves unless they are willing to put a blue chipper like PLD or Bjorkstrand on the table with Murray. In which case the Avs would obviously be adding value to balance things out; i.e. retaining on duchene, accepting a cap dump, sending non-bluechip prospect(s) to backfill some of what CBJ is sending out; but that base should be enough for Sakic to actually pull the trigger, and they are acting the "right way" in the press.

I highly doubt Columbus is interested in Duchene if they are all in on Kovalchuk. I don't think there would be cap room for both unless Hartnell is either moved or bought out. They would be better off pursuing a less expensive player with similar production, like Sam Reinhart.

I don't see much reason why the Avs wouldn't retain on Duchene to ease a deal; especially if they were happy with the value coming back their way.

 

[JoemAvs]

See now this is getting ridiculous. You want a guy of Duchene's caliber but your top 3 prospects are off limits? How are we the ones being unreasonable here?

Its Not 3. Its 5.

 

[JeffNYI]

See now this is getting ridiculous. You want a guy of Duchene's caliber but your top 3 prospects are off limits? How are we the ones being unreasonable here?

I don't think any prospect is strictly "off limits", even Barzal.

But the problem is -- and apparently has always been -- Sakic's asking price of 3 high-end pieces if one of them is an established 20-24 year old NHLer... or 4 high-end pieces of none of them are established.

You're probably only getting two high-end pieces for Duchene... or keeping him and wasting another year of his time and yours, and driving down Duchene's value in the process..

Sakic ultimately gets to decide that, which to many Avs fans is an unacceptable reality in its own right..

 

[cgf]

IMO Sorokin is untouchable. He is one of the best goalie prospects in the world. I don't think Snow will include Sorokin in any trade

So Barzal is untouchable, Ho Sang is untouchable, Sorokin is untouchable, and Beauvillier is untouchable. Do you guys actually want to trade for Duchene? Or is it more one of those, 'we'd love it if he came free but we don't actually wanna pay for him' type deals?

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

After all this time, you'd think Sakic would realize no one is going to pay the price he's demanding for Duchene. I hate to say it, but he just isn't going to get the return he wants. Duchene will bring back a good player, but someone isn't going to pay the kings ransom Sakic is wanting. If the price drops a bit, you will see multiple teams get very interested.

 

[CodeE]

Oh yeah? Go read the Hamonic trade thread. See if what Isles fans are saying about him there matches up with your drivel.

No, because I don't really care, and it doesn't prove your point anyway. I said I expect the winds to shift, not that they already have.

It absolutely does. You're accusing us of turning on Barzal in the unlikely scenario that Sakic him back in a Duchene deal. Saying he's not that good in order to save face.

If you read the Hamonic thread it's Flames/Islanders fans defending Hamonic's game against haters who are salty that they didn't get him. We're praising Hamonic as a high-quality warrior who instantly raises the quality of that Calgary defense, not taunting them that Mike Smith sucks and that CGY 1st will get us Dahlin next draft.

 

[Dipietro39]

So Barzal is untouchable, Ho Sang is untouchable, Sorokin is untouchable, and Beauvillier is untouchable. Do you guys actually want to trade for Duchene? Or is it more one of those, 'we'd love it if he came free but we don't actually wanna pay for him' type deals?

Again, Isles would trade those prospects, but won't be sending you two 1st round picks along with ONE of them.

Droiun was just traded for ONE elite prospect. Why should the Isles offer more than that?

 

[Johnny Canuck]

canucks will offer juloevie and sutter. make it happen

 

[tucker3434]

It absolutely does. You're accusing us of turning on Barzal in the unlikely scenario that Sakic him back in a Duchene deal. Saying he's not that good in order to save face.

If you read the Hamonic thread it's Flames/Islanders fans defending Hamonic's game against haters who are salty that they didn't get him. We're praising Hamonic as a high-quality warrior who instantly raises the quality of that Calgary defense, not taunting them that Mike Smith sucks and that CGY 1st will get us Dahlin next draft.

I have a feeling neither side will be patting the other on the back if this trade happens.

 

[Riseonfire]

So Barzal is untouchable, Ho Sang is untouchable, Sorokin is untouchable, and Beauvillier is untouchable. Do you guys actually want to trade for Duchene? Or is it more one of those, 'we'd love it if he came free but we don't actually wanna pay for him' type deals?

Beau is not untouchable.

Beau, 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder. Would totally do that. But Avs won't.

 

[CodeE]

So Barzal is untouchable, Ho Sang is untouchable, Sorokin is untouchable, and Beauvillier is untouchable. Do you guys actually want to trade for Duchene? Or is it more one of those, 'we'd love it if he came free but we don't actually wanna pay for him' type deals?

Barzal is untouchable. He's the best Islanders prospect since Tavares in 2009.

Ho-Sang and Sorokin are not worth the price tag you'd want to put on them. You want them cheap, one of 3-4 premium assets to be packaged together for Duchene. If Sakic insists on either of these players as a Duchene return, the other pieces that come with it are not going to be as valuable.

Beauvillier I'd hesitate to trade but at this point I feel he might be our only realistic trade chip to build a Duchene return around.

 

[cgf]

It absolutely does. You're accusing us of turning on Barzal in the unlikely scenario that Sakic him back in a Duchene deal. Saying he's not that good in order to save face.

If you read the Hamonic thread it's Flames/Islanders fans defending Hamonic's game against haters who are salty that they didn't get him. We're praising Hamonic as a high-quality warrior who instantly raises the quality of that Calgary defense, not taunting them that Mike Smith sucks and that CGY 1st will get us Dahlin next draft.

That's different. That's a long time member of the team who you've been cheering for for years and who was a warrior for your club; that's more like Avs fans continuing to defend ROR against the 'overpaid & over-rated' meme that took some months to subside after he was traded out east.

What tucker is talking about is the way a fanbase turns on a prospect that is moved before ever getting the chance to become a beloved member of the team; when suddenly all of that magic bean's shortcoming get highlighted and all of his strengths are no longer enough to compensate. Like many Sabres fans did with Zadorov or we've seen Habs fans start to do with Sergachev.