Duchene vs Stastny vs O'Reilly

CobraAcesS

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If anyone watched the Tampa/Buffalo game tonight, it's painfully obvious O'Reilly is no where near worth his contract.

I was there in person, and he wasn't dangerous or hard to play against, and Tampa didn't even play that well in the game.

No way in hell would I take O'Reilly over Duchene on his worst days with that contract.

Buffalo is going to regret that trade, mark my words.
 

IndustryLeech

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If anyone watched the Tampa/Buffalo game tonight, it's painfully obvious O'Reilly is no where near worth his contract.

I was there in person, and he wasn't dangerous or hard to play against, and Tampa didn't even play that well in the game.

No way in hell would I take O'Reilly over Duchene on his worst days with that contract.

Buffalo is going to regret that trade, mark my words.

Considering the other pieces we got in the trade, I'd say that's nearly a certainty.
 

Bonzai12

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Nov 2, 2007
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kind of funny - fans help drive out Stastny (too much money) and then ROR (all about the money) and now Duchene (doesn't do enough?).....

freakin brilliant we should all be GMs
 

JLo217

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Jul 22, 2009
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Apparently people have forgotten how bad ROR was at times last year. Especially early in the year. When ROR is off he's useless.

Duchene atleast tries and fails. He's had moments this year you've seen the effort.

Have we already forgotten how frustrating Casper was?

Duchene will turn it around.
 

LieutenantDangle

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Duchene is the superior hockey player to both of the other players named in the op. Not really much to discuss here. Duchene got his contract first. If either of the other guys wanted to stay here they would have signed as well. No need to dwell over the could have would have beens... Move on folks
 

jsalz16

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Feb 21, 2010
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Firstly,I'm a huge Duchene fan based on what he "can" do. Honestly though, time for him to take another big step. If he doesn't have a great season this year, you can't make excuses for him any more. He needs to produce at a high level or this team probably doesn't make the playoffs. That's really the long and short of it.
 

LieutenantDangle

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Firstly,I'm a huge Duchene fan based on what he "can" do. Honestly though, time for him to take another big step. If he doesn't have a great season this year, you can't make excuses for him any more. He needs to produce at a high level or this team probably doesn't make the playoffs. That's really the long and short of it.

Put up or shut up sorta sitchy. I've got all the faith that he will indeed put up this season
 

McMetal

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The ROR trade was good for us because we got Zadorov out of it. We needed a big time defender badly and we had to deal somebody good to get one. Frankly, as much as I loved his two-way play, he wasn't valuable enough to be worth as much as Buffalo is paying him, and I think they'll regret that trade eventually.

But Stastny walked for nothing, and that was a big mistake. He didn't take that much of a raise in St. Louis from what he was making here, and the easy chemistry he had with his linemates was a lot more important to the offense than we thought, given our continuing struggles with that since he left.

As for Duchene, he's the highest paid player on the team, and he's playing poorly. This season is young still, and he could catch fire down the stretch, but he needs to get his shit together or else I would be in favor of letting his very favorable contract go to another team in exchange for somebody who's more of a team player on the ice. That's the biggest problem with the offense right now, we need a guy like Stastny who can anchor a line more than we need a flashy speedster like Duchene. There is a big difference between what a player CAN do and what he DOES, and one of those counts a lot less than the other in the NHL.
 

Joe Sakic

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Stastny was leaving for St. Louis no matter what...

Duchene in a slump > regular ROR @ 7.5/yr for 7 yrs > regular Stastny
 

Colorado Avalanche

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Still Duchene... Even though everyone else is freaking over 4 game sample. I didn't even calculate contracts into this, because then it would be too easy to say Duchene..
 

ABasin

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There is no reason to try and evaluate a player when they are in a slump (or less so on a hot streak). Everytime it happens people always try to burn the witch on here. Its the silliest thing.

This.

Duchene is off to a slow start, and yes - he's looked modestly rotten so far. He's a good player though, and will likely be his normal self here over the next half dozen games or so.

For what it's worth, I think Varlamov has looked every bit as lousy as Duchene so far this season. Time to get rid of him also? ;)
 

klozge

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Let's also not forget Rantanen seems to be Duchene's winger now. Rantanen is learning quickly (which is amazing to see) and I think he'll be a nearly perfect winger for Dutchy. Their line could be a great one soon. Nobody will talk about O'Reilly and Stastny then.
 

ABasin

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Let's also not forget Rantanen seems to be Duchene's winger now. Rantanen is learning quickly (which is amazing to see) and I think he'll be a nearly perfect winger for Dutchy. Their line could be a great one soon. Nobody will talk about O'Reilly and Stastny then.

Over the past 18 months, I've been a very vocal poster in here in regards to the Avs' handling of both Stastny and O'R - and even I'm sick of discussion them.
 

Tweaky

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I am as big a critic of Duchene as anyone. Mainly due to the times he has been given a free pass for bad shifts/games/stretches/seasons, or unrealistic assumptions of his production, or using him as an unfair comparable.

But seriously, give the kid a break. He may be having a rough start. He may not be turning into the world beater that many assumed he would. But he is not a true zero point player either. He will get through this. It may not by the PPG season that some expect. But he will end up being a decent #2 center offensively, and maybe even defensively.

He will break out of his funk at some point, and in no way would it be better to have either of the other guys in his place. Not given the cost. Either one might be a better fit for the team at $6M AAV, but neither is making that, and RoR got a huge return as well. To keep Stastny, it would have cost nearly RoR's contract. Ideally, they trade him at his peak value, or at the draft for whatever they could get. But no way they should have paid what it would have taken to keep him. As for RoR (who many will remember I defended greatly), he brought back too much return to be worth losing all that, plus paying him what he will be getting starting next season.

Duchene is worth what he is getting paid, and having him and the RoR return is better for the team than either of the other two. In a dream world, RoR wants to stick around as Duchene's winger, and Stastny is honest about which town he is giving a discount to and we trade him there for a decent return (given what they had at the time, maybe Jackman, Paajarvi, and pick(s)?).

Bah, I added to this thread when I should be letting it die.
 

Meeqs

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Duchene is a very interesting player for me, but there is a tall tell sign that he is a true #1 center that goes mostly untalked about, and that is his ability to make certain line mates MUCH better than they actually are. Over his career he has done this with many players:

Hejduk: Played his best hockey with Duchene towards the end of his career, after he was moved away from him he quickly lost ice time and then retired.

Flash: Played at a high 2nd line, low top line winger with Duchene and got massively overpaid on UFA because of it, has been a journeyman 3rd liner ever since.

PaP: Was a top 20 point scorer the year he played with Duchene, then was a healthy scratch on 2 teams and bought out once he was moved away from him.

RoR: Had by far and away his best offensive numbers with Duchene, only scored at a 3rd line pace without him and got massively overpaid because of it.

Mcginn: A third line grinder who the season he played with Duchene doubled his point totally and almost hit 20 goals.


The point here being is that when Duchene is matched with wingers that don't mesh well with his fast paced game, no matter how skilled (like Iginla or Gabe) he tends to really struggle. However, when he is put with players whose style works well with his he elevates those players to levels that shouldn't be possible. Its is because of this that when you look at Duchene's linemate usage he has very often been paired with 3rd or 4th liners like Mitchel and Mcleod in hopes that he can carry them why other players like Mackinnon or (insert 3rd liner here) get a more sheltered role around more talented players.

So unfortunately Iggy will probably spend most of his time with Duchene because there isn't really a great spot for him on the line up and he still has the talent to be on the top 6. However, I think Avs fans should have some patient optimism because it is really looking like Rantanen may be the PERFECT fit for Duchene and the best winger he has ever had. So once the young Finn is able to settle into his game I don't expect these posts will be a thing anymore.
 

StayAtHomeAv

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Duchene does good = he elevates his line mates.
Duchene struggles = his line mates suck

You guys can't have it both ways.
 

flyfysher

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how many years until fans move on from ROR and Stastny?

This x infinity. Get over it and quit bringing up the same tired kaka over and over. Like Statsny? Follow the Blues. ROR fan. Switch allegiance to the Sabres.
 

AslanRH

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I think it is abundantly clear it is time to move on from this along with any discussions of things that may or may not have have/had any impact on the franchise's results: the PL era, Drury, Lindross trade, Sacco, Zanon's beard, Cooke's knee on Barrie, Granato, Hunwick, Hishon's injury, Pracey,

Forward thinking people! It is about the present and the future. The past doesn't matter anymore.
 

Meeqs

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Duchene does good = he elevates his line mates.
Duchene struggles = his line mates suck

You guys can't have it both ways.

He does elevate his line mates (See OP's chart on Duchene thread which is clearly shown) when he has chemistry with him. Funny enough though, most of the line mates who he does the worst with are the most talented ones. It isn't that his line mates aren't good players, just that they don't mesh with Duchene's style of play that he needs to be successful.
 

Meeqs

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This x infinity. Get over it and quit bringing up the same tired kaka over and over. Like Statsny? Follow the Blues. ROR fan. Switch allegiance to the Sabres.

I mean you still see a Blue's need a #1 center thread on trade rumors forum daily and once Sabers are more competitive and Eichel and Reinhart need pay raises RoR's contract will be an issue. Probably then people will realize the situation. Either that or when Duchene and Rantanen start to click and make dirty dirty plays together.
 

Meeqs

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I think it is abundantly clear it is time to move on from this along with any discussions of things that may or may not have have/had any impact on the franchise's results: the PL era, Drury, Lindross trade, Sacco, Zanon's beard, Cooke's knee on Barrie, Granato, Hunwick, Hishon's injury, Pracey,

Forward thinking people! It is about the present and the future. The past doesn't matter anymore.

If I start thinking about things like how stacked our D pool is I'll get a mad chubby at work and that wont be good for anyone. I stay stick on the past for a while longer lol :handclap:
 

AslanRH

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If I start thinking about things like how stacked our D pool is I'll get a mad chubby at work and that wont be good for anyone. I stay stick on the past for a while longer lol :handclap:

On that note, I like Compher, Bleakley, and Greer too. I think they project well into roles that will be emptying in the next few years.

Stastny @6.75 vs Yeti + Comeau may not have made the team any worse or better in the long run, who knows.

but whenever a question is asked regarding IF the Avs had chosen a different route, or what if the Avs had kept one of the two who left, it isn't always a referendum on Duchene.

what fun is it to be a fan if any time you question the common/preferred thought, you are accused of whining, dwelling, or whatever else makes things unreadable to the Coterie.
 

tigervixxxen

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I know you know the difference between whining "why can't Duchene be like Tavares???" and having a discussion about his weaknesses. Also that the spirit of this thread wasn't created to exactly compare and contrast the strengths, weaknesses and possible outcomes had either of those centers been signed and not Duchene. But I'm staying out of it.
 

StayAtHomeAv

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May 20, 2014
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He does elevate his line mates (See OP's chart on Duchene thread which is clearly shown) when he has chemistry with him. Funny enough though, most of the line mates who he does the worst with are the most talented ones. It isn't that his line mates aren't good players, just that they don't mesh with Duchene's style of play that he needs to be successful.

Sorry, but I don't take much from your OP. Hejduk just got old. He was producing well before Duchene showed up. Pap had a really good year before even joining this team. O'Reilly having just 3rd line production without him? That's just not true. McGinn was more in tune with O'Reilly than Duchene and even stepped up in his absence.

Maybe these guys elevated Duchene if he needs a certain style so bad. But they won't get credit for that.

Still though, the point was just that I am so tired of Iggy (maybe you are not saying he is a good player, but many people act like he is completely worthless and has no business being on this team) seemingly being blamed for Duchene's struggles, but when a line clicks Duchene gets all the credit, like you are currently doing with that list claiming Duchene made them so much better of players.
 

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