Duchene or MacKinnon

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

It could very well be in 10 years. If you think of all the players you listed, they'd all be on the downside of their career. We may very well be talking about McDavid vs Reinhart vs MacKinnon vs Drouin vs Yakupov vs Hall at that point

In 10 years from now Crosby is just 35 years old, Stammer would be 33. This guys have the drive to compete with the best until late 30's... like MSL. Kane/Backstrom/Giroux wouldn't be exactly grandfather at that point in time. You can't even dismiss Malkin or Ovechkin if they're motivated they will stay among the top 3.


Not sure how you put Hall and Yakupov but not Duchene/Tavares.

Also who the eff is Rienhart?

Why is your pre-emptive negativity more valid than anyones optimism? And why do you say, "we're all excited" when you're clearly distancing yourself from those who are. This use of "we" (as opposed to you) is a little condascending.

Also, Im not sure it's that unreasonable when you take a player with that combination of player comparisons (by scouts/analysts) in one of the deepest drafts in decades. It's easy to say, "hey, it's easy to bust...a lot of guys do it" and then pre-emptively get out in front of it. But Im not really sure that's being more "reasonable".

Wasn't trying to be condescending at all. I don't see how I'm being negative, I see it as being realistic.

Deepest draft in decades? Heard that one before, not buying it.

As I said if Mack ends up Toews/Stamkos we're talking about Sakic 2.0... He would be the best player in the game today. I'm not going to hold my breath thinking Mack in another Sakic.

 

[Averick*]

Wasn't trying to be condescending at all. I don't see how I'm being negative, I see it as being realistic.

I know you believe that. I've already touched on this and stand by it.

Deepest draft in decades? Heard that one before, not buying it.

This is where you make a mess for yourself. You lecture others on their expectations when many of them come from projections from analysts and scouts. But "we're" supposed to temper expectations because "you're" not buying it? Come one! That cuts both ways.

As I said if Mack ends up Toews/Stamkos we're talking about Sakic 2.0... He would be the best player in the game today. I'm not going to hold my breath thinking Mack in another Sakic.

No one is holding their breath. This is a false characterization meant to prop up some notion that you're "being realistic".

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Also who the eff is Rienhart?

I believe he refers to Sam Reinhart, a projected top-5 pick in the upcoming 2014 draft. He's a 2-way #1 center.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

This is where you make a mess for yourself. You lecture others on their expectations when many of them come from projections from analysts and scouts. But "we're" supposed to temper expectations because "you're" not buying it? Come one! That cuts both ways.


No one is holding their breath. This is a false characterization meant to prop up some notion that you're "being realistic".

These are the same analysts/Scouts that told me RNH has Gretzky like vision, Tavares was as good as Crosby. That there's seems to be a sakic/Yzerman or Lidstrom in every draft. 08 was the best draft in decades and is compared to the 03, 09 was the best draft in decades and is compared in to the 03, the 2012 and 2013 are the best draftes in decades as well. Excuse me if I don't take these "experts" word like it's gold.

I've just seen it far too many times for me to take it seriously.

Well obviously nobody is holding there breaths but you shouldn't expect Mack to have the offense of Stamkos and the defense of Toews. It's not normal for a player to be elite on both sides of the ice. Or you could expect him to be that great but be prepared to be let down.

 

[Averick*]

These are the same analysts/Scouts that told me RNH has Gretzky like vision, Tavares was as good as Crosby. That there's seems to be a sakic/Yzerman or Lidstrom in every draft. 08 was the best draft in decades and is compared to the 03, 09 was the best draft in decades and is compared in to the 03, the 2012 and 2013 are the best draftes in decades as well. Excuse me if I don't take these "experts" word like it's gold.

I've just seen it far too many times for me to take it seriously.

Well obviously nobody is holding there breaths but you shouldn't expect Mack to have the offense of Stamkos and the defense of Toews. It's not normal for a player to be elite on both sides of the ice. Or you could expect him to be that great but be prepared to be let down.

Because they werent precisely accurate, you're the default expert? Skepticism isn't expertise. Conservatism isn't a substitute for accuracy either.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Because they werent precisely accurate, you're the default expert? Skepticism isn't expertise. Conservatism isn't a substitute for accuracy either.

They weren't even close in some occasions.

This thing has run it's course. Good luck with Mackinnon being a top 5 player let alone Sakic.

 

[Averick*]

They weren't even close in some occasions.

This thing has run it's course. Good luck with Mackinnon being a top 5 player let alone Sakic.

Typical. People often use sarcasm as a way out. The top 5 thing wasn't even my thing. I said it was subjective. Its sad that you use sarcasm and distortion when you tap out just because someone exposes the flaws in your reasoning.

 

[Mr Serious]

This is merely your preliminary thoughts on the matter. The poll closes when the season starts for historical purposes, I'm sure opinions will be changing quite a lot over the next 5+ years about the two on a season by season basis.

But right now, without having seen Mack in the NHL and knowing Duchy's potential do you feel like Mack or Duchene will end up the better player when all is said and done?

Undecided is a fair decision of course, just clarifying the point of this thread.

Alright.

Without seeing MacKinnon play a single game at the NHL level and knowing what Duchene has brought and ability to continue to elevate his game thus far into this NHL career, I'm going with Duchene.

I think MacKinnon can surpass Duchene. However, without seeing him play at the NHL level it's too much of a unknown for me right now.

As it stands right now, Duchene's proven NHL ability > MacKinnon's unproven NHL potential, in my opinion.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Typical. People often use sarcasm as a way out. The top 5 thing wasn't even my thing. I said it was subjective. Its sad that you use sarcasm and distortion when you tap out just because someone exposes the flaws in your reasoning.

I'm sorry but LOL.... And your reasoning is 100 percent fool proof?

If you weren't arguing about Mack being a top 5 player then wtf were we arguing about?

I'm "tapping out" because this debate will go nowhere, you will still believe(wrongly) that Mack is Sakic 2.0 and I will continue to believe Mack will hopefully become a 1st line player and not one of the best players in the history of the game.

Hell your basing your opinion on what some guy said on T.V but I have the flawed reasoning. As I said good luck with Mack turning into a legend.

 

[ANewHope]

I'm sorry but LOL.... And your reasoning is 100 percent fool proof?

If you weren't arguing about Mack being a top 5 player then wtf were we arguing about?

I'm "tapping out" because this debate will go nowhere, you will still believe(wrongly) that Mack is Sakic 2.0 and I will continue to believe Mack will hopefully become a 1st line player and not one of the best players in the history of the game.

Hell your basing your opinion on what some guy said on T.V but I have the flawed reasoning. As I said good luck with Mack turning into a legend.

What's with the Sakic talk? Can you point me to where you read that, genuinely curious because I haven't heard any generational talk about Mackinnon. Maybe when he was like 15 but that was more Crosby comparisons probably because they come from the same place. Haven't really seen Sakic comparisons for Mackinnon, more Stamkos or Duchene or some random Toews ones.

Anyways it's clear you don't think he'll be a top 5 forward, or in that conversation. Which is fine. Who knows what happens. He's an amazing prospect tho and was drafted 1st overall so I imagine management believes he can be that player. 2013 was deep as hell in terms of offensive talent, regardless of what you think you hear every year.

We'll see. The guy's your listing off are literally in the same position as Mac just a few years back like I pointed out earlier. Pretty subjective stuff anyways, top 5 lists that is. Mackinnon projects to be a guy that can knab 40 goals and play a two way game. Maybe he meets his potential, maybe not. There's a reason he was took 1st overall tho and it's because of these projections...

 

[chet1926]

I don't ever envision a scenario where I'd have to choose between one or the other. If everything works out the way it should they will become our new Sakic/Forsberg combo except this time we won't be as short-sighted when it comes to a salary cap issue. Meaning we won't have to give one up due to a salary cap issue.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

What's with the Sakic talk? Can you point me to where you read that, genuinely curious because I haven't heard any generational talk about Mackinnon. Maybe when he was like 15 but that was more Crosby comparisons probably because they come from the same place. Haven't really seen Sakic comparisons for Mackinnon, more Stamkos or Duchene or some random Toews ones.

Anyways it's clear you don't think he'll be a top 5 forward, or in that conversation. Which is fine. Who knows what happens. He's an amazing prospect tho and was drafted 1st overall so I imagine management believes he can be that player. 2013 was deep as hell in terms of offensive talent, regardless of what you think you hear every year.

We'll see. The guy's your listing off are literally in the same position as Mac just a few years back like I pointed out earlier. Pretty subjective stuff anyways, top 5 lists that is. Mackinnon projects to be a guy that can knab 40 goals and play a two way game. Maybe he meets his potential, maybe not. There's a reason he was took 1st overall tho and it's because of these projections...

I brought up Sakic because he said what if the analysts were right in their comparisons that Mack is Toews and Stamkos rolled into one(which is a Sakic to me). You can throw out names all day but at the end he's not Stamkos, Sakic, Toews or Crosby, he is Mackinnon.

He is amazing prospect regardless, of how good the draft ends up being it doesn't reflect on how good Mackinnon is or will be. It's not what I think I hear, it is what happens every year the next draft is always the better one. The only ones that I can remember that didn't have that hype was the 07 and the one up coming(although still early, we'll see when the season starts)

Most of the players I listed off aren't in the top 5 but players that could be in the running and what hey have done so far. I expect Mack to be on par with the likes Hall,Giroux, Duchene and Tavares. I won't throw numbers out for Mackinnon but 40 goals isn't unreasonable with a soild 2 way game. Does that make him a top 5 player... NO. Is it the end of the world NO.

 

[Avs For Life]

BOTH!

I dont have to choose...they are both Avs

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Some of you sound like you're missing the point. I'm asking who will be better, not who do you want to keep.

 

[MvpKinnon]

We'll see how he performs in his rookie year..

This thread:

 

[CobraAcesS]

Some of you sound like you're missing the point. I'm asking who will be better, not who do you want to keep.

Based on pure numbers, and scouting reports. Isn't Mack suppose to have higher upside than Duchene?

Obviously at this point Duchene is better, but there is at least a chance Mack ends up the better player.

I mean people compare him to Stamkos, but say he's faster and has a better two way game. I doubt he scores 60 a year, but 40-50 with a little better two-way game than Stamkos would make him better than Duchene at this point.

Upside vs proven talent is always a touchy subject. Duchene could also take another step as well, especially if he improves his shot and gets even better defensively.

I think they'll be close but Mack's higher goal totals will probably give him more hype than Duchene, but I'm also of the opinion that Duchene isn't as far from Tavares as other people seem to think.

At least in terms of potential, Mack has Duchene's skating ability, and Tavares's play-making ability with just as good of a shot and better physicality/two-way play.

The sky is the limit for the kid to be honest...

Short answer : I don't know

 

[cgf]

Dutchy was compared to Yzerman coming out *shrug* So in terms of puff piece hype do you want Yzerman or a Sakic-esque Toews/Stamkos hybrid?

 

[Mr Serious]

Dutchy was compared to Yzerman coming out *shrug* So in terms of puff piece hype do you want Yzerman or a Sakic-esque Toews/Stamkos hybrid?

I haven't heard of MacKinnon compared to Sakic, namely Toews and Stamkos.

In terms of 'puff piece hype' I would take Yzerman over Toews/Stamkos. Maybe I'm in the minority though.

 

[niwotsblessing]

I haven't heard of MacKinnon compared to Sakic, namely Toews and Stamkos.

In terms of 'puff piece hype' I would take Yzerman over Toews/Stamkos. Maybe I'm in the minority though.

I'd take Bryan Trottier, the original #19.

 

[Averick*]

I haven't heard of MacKinnon compared to Sakic, namely Toews and Stamkos.

In terms of 'puff piece hype' I would take Yzerman over Toews/Stamkos. Maybe I'm in the minority though.

I wouldn't. In the 80s the scoring was around 8 goals a game. More recently, NHL scoring is down to around 5 goals a game. If you take Stamkos's 60 goals in todays game, it really translate to 80-96 in the 80s. Id take that and the two-way game of Toews.

 

[Taak19]

I haven't seen MacK enough to vote. And so far out of the 2 of them 1 already has success at NHL level. We'll have to wait and see on this one.

 

[Mr Serious]

I wouldn't. In the 80s the scoring was around 8 goals a game. More recently, NHL scoring is down to around 5 goals a game. If you take Stamkos's 60 goals in todays game, it really translate to 80-96 in the 80s. Id take that and the two-way game of Toews.

In my opinion, Yzerman is the complete package: over a point per game player, responsible at both ends of the ice, a leader on and off the ice, etc. He was to Detroit what Sakic was to us.

 

[AvsFanJosh]

DUCHENE ALL DAY BABY. He's my favorite player since the Sakic/Forsberg era

 

[Averick*]

In my opinion, Yzerman is the complete package: over a point per game player, responsible at both ends of the ice, a leader on and off the ice, etc. He was to Detroit what Sakic was to us.

One of the problems is that sometimes player comparisons are based on style of play while other times they're referencing a players ceiling.

Someone else is right. In the end, he won't be Stamkos, he'll be a MacKinnon. And if he has a similar skillset but is a better skater, I don't see why he can't score as many goals as Stamkos.

 

[Averick*]

I'm sorry but LOL.... And your reasoning is 100 percent fool proof?

If you weren't arguing about Mack being a top 5 player then wtf were we arguing about?

I'm "tapping out" because this debate will go nowhere, you will still believe(wrongly) that Mack is Sakic 2.0 and I will continue to believe Mack will hopefully become a 1st line player and not one of the best players in the history of the game.

Hell your basing your opinion on what some guy said on T.V but I have the flawed reasoning. As I said good luck with Mack turning into a legend.

I don't necessarily think he's Sakic 2.0. You seem to be really fixated on this. Everyone knows prospects sometimes fall short. While this "bird in the hand is worth more than one in the bush" , that you default to is safe, it's also lazy.

When people point out that they're just prospects and they can fall short of comparisons and projections, they're also pointing out the very reason they could exceed expectations.

I'm pretty sure the Bulls are ecstatic that Portland thought Jordan was Drexler 2.0 at best.