TSN: Dreger: JVR not expected back

[1specter]

Though the problem there is you really won’t save much money. 3Cs tend to make 3-4 million in the league. I wouldn’t trade a 50-60 point centre just to save 500k.

And are we really 'saving'? Like I just said above, factoring in Kadri's real market value the Leafs actually come out about .5 - 1M positive.

 

[connormcmuffin]

You can judge him all you want, I just think he's another guy that will turn a corner next season and you'll be one of those people who just disappear when everybody is happy about Zaitsev and his contract again. I'm just sharing my opinion on why I think it's a little early to judge him.

Based on what? What is good about his game?

People were generally hopeful but said too small a sample size when he signed the deal. We were all kinda high off everything else turning to gold. The Leafs roster/cap is like a perfect set of teeth with one cavity, that's Zaitsev, hank it out.

 

[connormcmuffin]

I have never liked the contract either but let's not be ridiculous...Clarkson couldn't even play.

Zaitsev may or may not be more than a 4th or 5th offensive minded D in the end, but that is miles better than a guy who can't play at an NHL level.

Love that people take things literally. 4.5 million for another 6 years for a bottom pair talent deserves some hate. It's already costing up JVR, who did Clarkson's deal force out the door? Clarkson was an accelerationist that help bring on the rebuild

 

[connormcmuffin]

Fair enough. I don't remember how much of a difference there was between how long the Rielly-Zaitsev and Gardiner-Zaitsev pairings were together, though to be fair, there's more than that to consider (special teams, other pairings). I personally don't think there was - or is - a significant difference between Gardiner and Rielly, but it's perfectly reasonable if anyone thought/thinks otherwise.

Gardiner is better at shot supression, Rielly is better at zone exits and both struggle a bit with the other's strength, personally I think they could make an amazing pair.

Edit
-I've posted too much on this issue so I'm done, light me up in response-

 

[Morbo]

Love that people take things literally. 4.5 million for another 6 years for a bottom pair talent deserves some hate. It's already costing up JVR, who did Clarkson's deal force out the door? Clarkson was an accelerationist that help bring on the rebuild

what the hell are you talking about?

 

[connormcmuffin]

what the hell are you talking about?

Read the thread.... the question I posed was 'would you be willing to deal Zaitsev to have the cap room to extend JVR'

.... next time you quote me read, you're welcome.

 

[The CyNick]

Zaitev was primary pair with Rielly last year and they was a legitimate debate of is Gardiner better than Rielly last season, go figure.

True, now I'd say it's crystal clear Gardiner is better.

 

[rent free]

Read the thread.... the question I posed was 'would you be willing to deal Zaitsev to have the cap room to extend JVR'

.... next time you quote me read, you're welcome.

i think he's referring about the clarkson part

 

[Morbo]

Read the thread.... the question I posed was 'would you be willing to deal Zaitsev to have the cap room to extend JVR'

.... next time you quote me read, you're welcome.

your question is BS. are you willing to deal any medium size caphit on the roster to keep JVR?? same thing.

Zaitsev in particular is not forcing anybody anywhere. This only exists in your imagination.

 

[connormcmuffin]

your question is BS. are you willing to deal any medium size caphit on the roster to keep JVR?? same thing.

Zaitsev in particular is not forcing anybody anywhere. This only exists in your imagination.

You're basic, JVR is walking, Zaitsev is the only bad contract on the team, it's a fair question, ignored, done explaining very simple concepts.

Imagination? It's a fantasy board dude...

 

[Anthrax442]

True, now I'd say it's crystal clear Gardiner is better.

Than Polak

 

[stickty111]

True, now I'd say it's crystal clear Gardiner is better.

Wrong as usual

 

[Morbo]

You're basic, JVR is walking, Zaitsev is the only bad contract on the team, it's a fair question, ignored, done explaining very simple concepts.

Imagination? It's a fantasy board dude...

okay, thanks for admitting that that your fears are imaginary.

 

[stickty111]

Its pretty obvious that Rielly is better then Gardiner
There is no argument

 

[nsleaf]

okay, thanks for admitting that that your fears are imaginary.

Most fears are imaginary. What a lame response magma man.

 

[Morbo]

Most fears are imaginary. What a lame response magma man.

Really? They are? wow, that's deep. speaking of lame responses.

 

[LeafFever]

Love that people take things literally. 4.5 million for another 6 years for a bottom pair talent deserves some hate. It's already costing up JVR, who did Clarkson's deal force out the door? Clarkson was an accelerationist that help bring on the rebuild

It's not at all.
What's costing us JVR is drafting Marner/Matthews/Nylander in 3 straight drafts.
I feel people on here have idea whats' going on with the Leafs cap situation.

 

[Boutette]

I feel people on here have idea whats' going on with the Leafs cap situation.

Not those with JvR mancrushes. They will never understand.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Here's the thing though, we can sign JVR right now. Mealeau does not stop that. The issue are the years after Marleau leaves when things get much tighter.

The cap will be between 78 and 82 million next season, and could conceivably rise to 85-90 million over the next few years.

For argument's sake, let take a conservative number like 80 million. If we paid JVR 6 x 6, his AAV would be only 7.5% of the team salary cap.

I know we have to spread our available cap space around to lock up our young core over the next few years, but I don't think 7.5% of our cap is too much to allocate to our leading goal scorer.

Looking ahead past the contracts of Marleau, Hainsey, and Martin, this is what I would do:

Matthews - 10
Nylander - 7
Marner - 7
JVR - 6
Rielly - 5
Gardiner - 5
Kadri - 4.5
Zaitsev - 4.5
Bozak - 4
Dermott - 3
Kapanen - 2.5
Hyman - 2.25
Brown - 2.1

62.85 million to lock up the top 9 forwards and the top 4 defencemen long term.

That leaves us with about 20 million in cap space to round out the roster with depth players moving forward, most of which will be on ELCs in the next few years.

 

[Boutette]

The cap will be between 78 and 82 million next season, and could conceivably rise to 85-90 million over the next few years.

For argument's sake, let take a conservative number like 80 million. If we paid JVR 6 x 6, his AAV would be only 7.5% of the team salary cap.

I know we have to spread our available cap space around to lock up our young core over the next few years, but I don't think 7.5% of our cap is too much to allocate to our leading goal scorer.

Looking ahead past the contracts of Marleau, Hainsey, and Martin, this is what I would do:

Matthews - 10
Nylander - 7
Marner - 7
JVR - 6
Reilly - 5
Gardiner - 5
Kadri - 4.5
Zaitsev - 4.5
Bozak - 4
Dermott - 3
Kapanen - 2.5
Hyman - 2.25
Brown - 2.1

62.85 million to lock up the top 9 forwards and the top 4 defencemen long term.

That leaves us with about 20 million in cap space to round out the roster with depth players moving forward, most of which will be on ELCs in the next few years.

Well, you have $6 million for goaltending that you ignored. $1.2 million for Kessel ad infinitum. The complication of Horton's $5 million LTIR vs. bonuses that creates a 2019 squeeze. The lowballing you have for Gardiner and Dermott. Your maybe leaving around $1 million each for the rest of the roster give or take and then no room for trade deadline acquisitions or improving team defense, which is the major stumbling block between this team and a Stanley Cup not a one dimensional winger who has decided not to get assists anymore or have an interest in working in the defensive zone. This team needs improving in it areas of weakness. How does devoting $7+ million in cap to JvR (which is what he's going to get) *improve* the team we have? How does that signing help improve the team where it is weak?

 

[Clark4Ever]

Well, you have $6 million for goaltending that you ignored. $1.2 million for Kessel ad infinitum. The complication of Horton's $5 million LTIR vs. bonuses that creates a 2019 squeeze. The lowballing you have for Gardiner and Dermott. Your maybe leaving around $1 million each for the rest of the roster give or take and then no room for trade deadline acquisitions or improving team defense, which is the major stumbling block between this team and a Stanley Cup not a one dimensional winger who has decided not to get assists anymore or have an interest in working in the defensive zone. This team needs improving in it areas of weakness. How does devoting $6-$7 million in cap to JvR *improve* the team we have? How does that signing help improve the team where it is weak?

My bad, I didn't include Andersen. Kessel's cap hit will not be a factor long term. Even if it ends up being around 15 million give or take, that should be enough to fill out a 4th line and a bottom defence pairing with all the young talent we have coming up through the pipeline in the next few years. We won't be able to add a Tavares or a Doughty, but we might not have to with that kind of depth. That's a team capable of contending for many years in my opinion.

 

[ChickenMcNugget]

Well, you have $6 million for goaltending that you ignored. $1.2 million for Kessel ad infinitum. The complication of Horton's $5 million LTIR vs. bonuses that creates a 2019 squeeze. The lowballing you have for Gardiner and Dermott. Your maybe leaving around $1 million each for the rest of the roster give or take and then no room for trade deadline acquisitions or improving team defense, which is the major stumbling block between this team and a Stanley Cup not a one dimensional winger who has decided not to get assists anymore or have an interest in working in the defensive zone. This team needs improving in it areas of weakness. How does devoting $7+ million in cap to JvR (which is what he's going to get) *improve* the team we have? How does that signing help improve the team where it is weak?

Honestly, this BS argument about defensive game is getting really frustrating. Does anyone think that Ovechkin is great defensively, what about Patrick Kane. This argument was got Kessel thrown out of Toronto and then he was critical for Pittsburgh to win back to back cups.

A wingers job is to stay open for passes and score. And JVR can score pretty well. He absolutely deserves atleast a 6M. and if he doesn't come back there's gona be a very noticeable difference in our offence next season.

 

[CelticDruid]

Just give him the money already lol

 

[Raging Bull]

Good thing we didn't trade him at the deadline. *stirs pot*

 

[Boutette]

Honestly, this BS argument about defensive game is getting really frustrating. Does anyone think that Ovechkin is great defensively, what about Patrick Kane. This argument was got Kessel thrown out of Toronto and then he was critical for Pittsburgh to win back to back cups.

A wingers job is to stay open for passes and score. And JVR can score pretty well. He absolutely deserves atleast a 6M. and if he doesn't come back there's gona be a very noticeable difference in our offence next season.

And look at what Marner is doing. He could be a PPG winger by next year who can somehow score and passes the puck. And the team is going to have to pay for that talent. Or are you going to let Marner go because you've spent all your available cap on 30 year old JvR and also want to keep Nylander and Matthews and shore up the teams defence? A team needs some flexibility for the future. Slapping down whatever JvR wants is going to but a kibosh on that. How hard is that to wrap your head around? Do you want to keep your PPG twenty year olds and have enough cap to build a half decent team around them, or do reward your 30 year olds for their service so they can retire wearing your favorite uniform? That's the sort of thing that happened with the Muskoka 5, remember? Which do you think will ensure success over the next decade or so? Certainly didn't work out last time.