TSN: Dreger: JVR not expected back

[connormcmuffin]

Well there are a lot of posters on here that give Z grief when he doesn't necessarily deserve it and he's not dragging anybody down. Don't believe everything you read.
Hainsey is a veteran D man who has learned the ins and outs of playing pro hockey as a defensive defenseman, so Z has a lot to learn by watching Hainsey, but I wouldn't compare the two at this time as they couldn't be more different.

What is it that you think I've read, Zaitsev gets a free pass when he's hurt the numbers of everyone he plays with, by the number Zaitsev is awful, he's objectively band in the neutral zone and behind the blueline, he flirts with average on offense.

 

[Buds17]

To me it reads like last year he was paired with Rielly and Rielly suffered for it, this year he's paired with Gardiner and Gardiner suffered for it. It was night and day when Rielly and Gardiner are paired with Hainsey.

IIRC though, the Gardiner-Zaitsev pairing was fairly well regarded last season. Could say the same about the JVR-Bozak-Marner line too and even Kadri-Komarov. Things change, be it any or all of expectations, performance, circumstances or opinions. Sports in a nutshell, IMO. Considering our lack of RD depth and his ability to bounce back, I think Zaitsev still gets enough rope here.

 

[Mugzy97]

What is it that you think I've read, Zaitsev gets a free pass when he's hurt the numbers of everyone he plays with, by the number Zaitsev is awful, he's objectively band in the neutral zone and behind the blueline, he flirts with average on offense.

He's also had sections of seasons where he has looked amazing, we can't just ignore that. He also leads our entire defense on ATOI/G which would suggest he gets some tough match-ups. I'd suggest we give him one more fresh start to a season before writing him off. Although the sample size of 2 years is a large one, it consists of a rookie season on foreign ice and a sophomore season filled with speed bumps. It's not fair to judge him based on these facts IMO.

 

[Stephen]

Do we do something on the Marleau front to afford JVR?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Do we do something on the Marleau front to afford JVR?

Not a chance. Convincing a well-respected vet to come here and then dumping him a year later....... the optics would be horrific
Plus Marleau is much more versatile

 

[LeafFever]

Do we do something on the Marleau front to afford JVR?

Here's the thing though, we can sign JVR right now. Mealeau does not stop that. The issue are the years after Marleau leaves when things get much tighter.

 

[Stephen]

Here's the thing though, we can sign JVR right now. Mealeau does not stop that. The issue are the years after Marleau leaves when things get much tighter.

That's true. I mean we could always walk away from JVR, allocate his money and raise and kick in a little more for Tavares, which would upgrade the forward group, and then eventually get rid of Kadri, Zaitsev and Marleau over the next two years.

 

[ShaneFalco]

That's true. I mean we could always walk away from JVR, allocate his money and raise and kick in a little more for Tavares, which would upgrade the forward group, and then eventually get rid of Kadri, Zaitsev and Marleau over the next two years.

Naz!??!

 

[connormcmuffin]

IIRC though, the Gardiner-Zaitsev pairing was fairly well regarded last season. Could say the same about the JVR-Bozak-Marner line too and even Kadri-Komarov. Things change, be it any or all of expectations, performance, circumstances or opinions. Sports in a nutshell, IMO. Considering our lack of RD depth and his ability to bounce back, I think Zaitsev still gets enough rope here.

Zaitev was primary pair with Rielly last year and they was a legitimate debate of is Gardiner better than Rielly last season, go figure.

 

[Gary Nylund]

He's also had sections of seasons where he has looked amazing, we can't just ignore that. He also leads our entire defense on ATOI/G which would suggest he gets some tough match-ups. I'd suggest we give him one more fresh start to a season before writing him off. Although the sample size of 2 years is a large one, it consists of a rookie season on foreign ice and a sophomore season filled with speed bumps. It's not fair to judge him based on these facts IMO.

It's fair to judge him but ridiculous to write him off. Funny but I seem to remember most people being very happy when he signed his contract, this fanbase has a short memory and suffers from extreme recency bias. Bozak was supposedly washed up a couple of months ago too and so it goes ...

That's true. I mean we could always walk away from JVR, allocate his money and raise and kick in a little more for Tavares, which would upgrade the forward group, and then eventually get rid of Kadri, Zaitsev and Marleau over the next two years.

Marleau sure but in the case of Kadri and Zaitsev, I would hope that by eventually you mean re-evaluate when their contracts come up for renewal. Especially Kadri, we're not getting rid of him anytime soon as we really need what he brings.

 

[connormcmuffin]

He's also had sections of seasons where he has looked amazing, we can't just ignore that. He also leads our entire defense on ATOI/G which would suggest he gets some tough match-ups. I'd suggest we give him one more fresh start to a season before writing him off. Although the sample size of 2 years is a large one, it consists of a rookie season on foreign ice and a sophomore season filled with speed bumps. It's not fair to judge him based on these facts IMO.

His denial of zone entries and zone exits have always been atrocious. He didn't do well in those tough matchups hence being demoted to sheltered ones.

You can't give the rookie excuse when he was a 25yo rookie that hasn't shown any progress in two years. These are weak points.

Again, someone else saying 'we can't judge Zaistev' he has the longest contract on the team with for a big cap hit, he's deal is Clarkson bad.

 

[LeafFever]

Naz!??!

Imagine the boat load we'd get for Naz, 4.5 million, 30 goal/60 point two-way centre.

 

[IPS]

I am shocked beyond belief that we haven't seen Pookie in here trying to convince us we need to trade Kadri to re-sign JVR long term.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Imagine the boat load we'd get for Naz, 4.5 million, 30 goal/60 point two-way centre.

Ya Matthews would bring back a pretty good haul too.

I am shocked beyond belief that we haven't seen Pookie in here trying to convince us we need to trade Kadri to re-sign JVR long term.

And there goes the bat signal.

 

[Stephen]

Well, if you get a premium center like Tavares, you have to trim depth elsewhere. As cheap as Kadri is, he'd be slightly overpaid in a lower position, and you could probably get a nice haul in return.

 

[IPS]

Well, if you get a premium center like Tavares, you have to trim depth elsewhere. As cheap as Kadri is, he'd be slightly overpaid in a lower position, and you could probably get a nice haul in return.

How much do you believe we could sign Tavares for?

 

[IPS]

Ya Matthews would bring back a pretty good haul too.



And there goes the bat signal.

Sorry brother, I just had to

Atleast I put it out there for when it does happen.

 

[Buds17]

Zaitev was primary pair with Rielly last year and they was a legitimate debate of is Gardiner better than Rielly last season, go figure.

Fair enough. I don't remember how much of a difference there was between how long the Rielly-Zaitsev and Gardiner-Zaitsev pairings were together, though to be fair, there's more than that to consider (special teams, other pairings). I personally don't think there was - or is - a significant difference between Gardiner and Rielly, but it's perfectly reasonable if anyone thought/thinks otherwise.

 

[Menzinger]

I forgot that we are still paying Gleason.

Nonis’ gift that kept on giving.

 

[Morbo]

His denial of zone entries and zone exits have always been atrocious. He didn't do well in those tough matchups hence being demoted to sheltered ones.

You can't give the rookie excuse when he was a 25yo rookie that hasn't shown any progress in two years. These are weak points.

Again, someone else saying 'we can't judge Zaistev' he has the longest contract on the team with for a big cap hit, he's deal is Clarkson bad.

I have never liked the contract either but let's not be ridiculous...Clarkson couldn't even play.

Zaitsev may or may not be more than a 4th or 5th offensive minded D in the end, but that is miles better than a guy who can't play at an NHL level.

 

[Menzinger]

Well, if you get a premium center like Tavares, you have to trim depth elsewhere. As cheap as Kadri is, he'd be slightly overpaid in a lower position, and you could probably get a nice haul in return.

Though the problem there is you really won’t save much money. 3Cs tend to make 3-4 million in the league. I wouldn’t trade a 50-60 point centre just to save 500k.

 

[Mugzy97]

His denial of zone entries and zone exits have always been atrocious. He didn't do well in those tough matchups hence being demoted to sheltered ones.

You can't give the rookie excuse when he was a 25yo rookie that hasn't shown any progress in two years. These are weak points.

Again, someone else saying 'we can't judge Zaistev' he has the longest contract on the team with for a big cap hit, he's deal is Clarkson bad.

You can judge him all you want, I just think he's another guy that will turn a corner next season and you'll be one of those people who just disappear when everybody is happy about Zaitsev and his contract again. I'm just sharing my opinion on why I think it's a little early to judge him.

 

[IPS]

You can judge him all you want, I just think he's another guy that will turn a corner next season and you'll be one of those people who just disappear when everybody is happy about Zaitsev and his contract again. I'm just sharing my opinion on why I think it's a little early to judge him.

Zaitsev's been horrific this year but he had a very respectable season last year.

I ain't even close to giving up on him - he's proved to have fairly good skating and puck moving ability.

 

[Mugzy97]

Zaitsev's been horrific this year but he had a very respectable season last year.

I ain't even close to giving up on him - he's proved to have fairly good skating and puck moving ability.

Yes - and his bad year is well documented with seperate issues involving injury, child birth, and illness. Hard to judge him based on the facts.

 

[1specter]

Well, if you get a premium center like Tavares, you have to trim depth elsewhere. As cheap as Kadri is, he'd be slightly overpaid in a lower position, and you could probably get a nice haul in return.

With the cap going up the going rate for a good 3C is about 3.5+ anyways, and when you factor that Kadri is about 1.5-2M underpaid, the Leafs come out with a net positive of about 500k-1M. I would rather just run with an elite C group and make life hell for other teams. Plus, there are injuries. Look at how many games Matthews has missed this season.