Player Discussion Drake Batherson (RW)

[EXTRAS]

I wonder what type of contract he signs. 3 years x 3 million?

 

[dumbdick]

Answering questions about hypothetical scenarios (and/or scenarios that don't exist) can get weird and be unproductive.

All I said in my post was Batherson has the same number of points as Connor Brown. Not sure why we've jumped to Logan Brown now. Connor Brown is already in the lineup, so hence, I'm not sure there's a conceivable scenario where the Senators would be thinking of sitting him.

There is no shortage of opportunities for decent forwards on the current Senators roster whether the player is a little more experienced (Batherson) or less experienced (Logan Brown). So, I would go with both in the current lineup, although not necessarily tonight, as there should be plenty of time to work L. Brown in at some point.

I like Batherson and think he has potential. But, based on this season, sometimes I see some good things and good plays from him, while at other times, I hardly notice him and he isn't doing much to stand out in a really positive way. When somebody says "top 6", it means they could be seeing a player on the top line. Its possible that Batherson has that potential, but I'm not sure how anybody can reach that conclusion based on what has transpired so far.

And, to add to the overall bizarreness, somehow these posts ended up in a Pinto thread.

You're right about not wanting to derail the pinto thread. For what it's worth I was talking about connor.

There are 31 teams each with six top-6 players. So that's 186 top-six players in the league if they were all distributed evenly (they're not). Bath's 0.5 ppg this season gets him into the low end of that list on points.

But more than that my eyeballs say he's got nothing left to prove.

 

[Big Muddy]

You're right about not wanting to derail the pinto thread. For what it's worth I was talking about connor.

There are 31 teams each with six top-6 players. So that's 186 top-six players in the league if they were all distributed evenly (they're not). Bath's 0.5 ppg this season gets him into the low end of that list on points.

But more than that my eyeballs say he's got nothing left to prove.

Did not know nhl stat websites list what lines the players were on. But I think you are saying he ranks in the 128 to 154 range (with the 26 forwards that have 10 points).

I did a comparison to Armia (3rd line) and Nylander (2nd line). Batherson was listed as 3rd line. Players were chosen from Montreal and Toronto because they are divisional teams who Senators must compete against (and beat to be successful) under the current and normal divisional alignments.

Without a lot of deep analysis, it looks like more goals are scored against the Senators when Batherson is on the ice, even though his offensive zone starts are highest. Armia, who only played 10 games, would have the same regular stats if his numbers were adjusted to 20 games at his current rate per game. Armia is a 3rd line player though. Batherson's xGF and xGF% are pretty good and not far off Nylander's - I'll give you that. Probably don't want to go through this exercise very often - too time consuming LOL.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

	nylander	armia	batherson
GP	20	10	20
G	5	2	4
A	9	3	6
Pts	14	5	10
CF%	52.51	56.04	51.08
FF%	51.42	56.08	51.37
SF%	51.02	55.45	52.65
GF	9	9	6
GA	7	3	11
GF%	56.25	75	35.29
xGF%	54.90	51.89	53.27
xGF	11.02	4.3	10.93
xGA	9.05	3.99	9.59
Off Zone Start %	65.71	46.43	69.44

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[dumbdick]

Did not know nhl stat websites list what lines the players were on. But I think you are saying he ranks in the 128 to 154 range (with the 26 forwards that have 10 points).

I did a comparison to Armia (3rd line) and Nylander (2nd line). Batherson was listed as 3rd line. Players were chosen from Montreal and Toronto because they are divisional teams who Senators must compete against (and beat to be successful) under the current and normal divisional alignments.

Without a lot of deep analysis, it looks like more goals are scored against the Senators when Batherson is on the ice, even though his offensive zone starts are highest. Armia, who only played 10 games, would have the same regular stats if his numbers were adjusted to 20 games at his current rate per game. Armia is a 3rd line player though. Batherson's xGF and xGF% are pretty good and not far off Nylander's - I'll give you that. Probably don't want to go through this exercise very often - too time consuming LOL.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

	nylander	armia	batherson
GP	20	10	20
G	5	2	4
A	9	3	6
Pts	14	5	10
CF%	52.51	56.04	51.08
FF%	51.42	56.08	51.37
SF%	51.02	55.45	52.65
GF	9	9	6
GA	7	3	11
GF%	56.25	75	35.29
xGF%	54.90	51.89	53.27
xGF	11.02	4.3	10.93
xGA	9.05	3.99	9.59
Off Zone Start %	65.71	46.43	69.44

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

You seem like fun at parties. Appreciate you spending your time at 1am doing this though.

EDIT: that was too harsh and I'm sorry. If you find me someone who says Batherson isn't a top-6 player, based on an assessment of their play (not reverting to advanced stats), I'd be more likely to take you seriously.

If you want to talk stats, he's 4th in ice time and 4th in points among the forwards on his team, sounds pretty top 6.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

You seem like fun at parties. Appreciate you spending your time at 1am doing this though.

EDIT: that was too harsh and I'm sorry. If you find me someone who says Batherson isn't a top-6 player, based on an assessment of their play (not reverting to advanced stats), I'd be more likely to take you seriously.

If you want to talk stats, he's 4th in ice time and 4th in points among the forwards on his team, sounds pretty top 6.

Batherson has not been a top 6 player this year based on assessment of his play

 

[SensontheRush]

Did not know nhl stat websites list what lines the players were on. But I think you are saying he ranks in the 128 to 154 range (with the 26 forwards that have 10 points).

I did a comparison to Armia (3rd line) and Nylander (2nd line). Batherson was listed as 3rd line. Players were chosen from Montreal and Toronto because they are divisional teams who Senators must compete against (and beat to be successful) under the current and normal divisional alignments.

Without a lot of deep analysis, it looks like more goals are scored against the Senators when Batherson is on the ice, even though his offensive zone starts are highest. Armia, who only played 10 games, would have the same regular stats if his numbers were adjusted to 20 games at his current rate per game. Armia is a 3rd line player though. Batherson's xGF and xGF% are pretty good and not far off Nylander's - I'll give you that. Probably don't want to go through this exercise very often - too time consuming LOL.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

	nylander	armia	batherson
GP	20	10	20
G	5	2	4
A	9	3	6
Pts	14	5	10
CF%	52.51	56.04	51.08
FF%	51.42	56.08	51.37
SF%	51.02	55.45	52.65
GF	9	9	6
GA	7	3	11
GF%	56.25	75	35.29
xGF%	54.90	51.89	53.27
xGF	11.02	4.3	10.93
xGA	9.05	3.99	9.59
Off Zone Start %	65.71	46.43	69.44

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Wait, are you telling me the data points that control for context show that Batherson is pretty good? And the data points that are strictly team play suggest he is playing poorly?

What are the odds???

 

[OD99]

I would say the entire team was terrible and now the key players we want/need to improve are doing so.

Batherson is definitely trending the right way now and has good looks just about every game while also distributing the puck well and playing physical.

He will be a legit top 6 before season is done.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

It's ridiculous the amount of passes he has fumbled.

He is definitely nervous out there, remember the start of the season? Different player carrying the puck and distributing the puck with authority. He was much improved last game, let's hope the mojo is back.

If he has simple collected the puck properly, he'd have 5 more points at least.

Playing with Stutzle is definitely having a positive impact on him. I think when he played with with Norris and Tkachuk they play a more north and south game and he became less creative that way to adapt playing with them. With Stutzle, he is feeding off his energy and east-west movement.

 

[Big Muddy]

Wait, are you telling me the data points that control for context show that Batherson is pretty good? And the data points that are strictly team play suggest he is playing poorly?

What are the odds???

"Pretty good"? That's subjective. And, you painted with a pretty broad brush, lumping some good & bad personal stats together.

Re: strictly team stats - Some of the stats posted reflect Batherson and his line mates when Batherson was on the ice, so Batherson is part (a contributor) of those stats. That's not team stats unless he's played with every other Senator player.

I thought it was a bit of mixed bag stats wise.

 

[bert]

It's ridiculous the amount of passes he has fumbled.

He is definitely nervous out there, remember the start of the season? Different player carrying the puck and distributing the puck with authority. He was much improved last game, let's hope the mojo is back.

If he has simple collected the puck properly, he'd have 5 more points at least.

Playing with Stutzle is definitely having a positive impact on him. I think when he played with with Norris and Tkachuk they play a more movement.

I think he played better with Tkachuk and Norris. I thought he would be a great fit with Stuetzle but like you said he has really struggled. He doesnt seem ready for Stuetzles passes for whatever reason it is. Considering how he has started he has been one of the most dissapointing players for me this year based on expectation.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I think he played better with Tkachuk and Norris. I thought he would be a great fit with Stuetzle but like you said he has really struggled. He doesnt seem ready for Stuetzles passes for whatever reason it is. Considering how he has started he has been one of the most dissapointing players for me this year based on expectation.

What were your expectations? Anything over .5 ppg would be incredible in my view.

 

[Big Muddy]

You seem like fun at parties. Appreciate you spending your time at 1am doing this though.

EDIT: that was too harsh and I'm sorry. If you find me someone who says Batherson isn't a top-6 player, based on an assessment of their play (not reverting to advanced stats), I'd be more likely to take you seriously.

If you want to talk stats, he's 4th in ice time and 4th in points among the forwards on his team, sounds pretty top 6.

1st paragraph - I live in Texas - it wasn't 1 am

2nd paragraph - Several others have chimed with the same opinion.

3rd para - Ottawa is at the bottom of the standings. Hence, I compared him to two players (a 2nd liner & a 3rd liner) from 2 rival divisional opponents ahead in the standings to see what the stats looked like. Its worth noting that Nylander hasn't played very well for a stretch and he is getting plenty of scrutiny & criticism for not producing and playing well from nation members (along with Tavares).

You mentioned "top six" a few times. When its described in less definitive terms like this, that implies 1st line potential versus other descriptors. What I saw was a guy with 2nd line potential from an offensive perspective, and probably a 3rd liner from a defensive capability that would need to improve the defensive side of his game. And yes, Batherson has plenty of time to develop and improve, but we are talking about what we can see now.

I was poking around for stats like CF % Rel, but had already spent more time than I wanted, so ended my search where it was. Others could add those type of stats if they wish (or maybe I can add if I find more time).

 

[bert]

What were your expectations? Anything over .5 ppg would be incredible in my view.

My expectations are him to convert open looks when he gets so many prime minutes and opportunities. At the very least last game he should have had 2 goals, he honestly could have had 5. Top 6 players convert both the Brannstrom play and the wide open Stuetzle pass. I have seen him suprised by a few plays which suprsies me, he is easily the second most naturally gifted forward on the team. Which I guess really isnt saying much.

 

[OD99]

I think he played better with Tkachuk and Norris. I thought he would be a great fit with Stuetzle but like you said he has really struggled. He doesnt seem ready for Stuetzles passes for whatever reason it is. Considering how he has started he has been one of the most dissapointing players for me this year based on expectation.

Really?

I figure given how he played last season and what the team composition is this year he is doing quite well.

Not saying others aren't taking these items in to account but for discussion let's consider the following:

1. Off for ~12 months
2. Put on top line against top opposition
3. D corps cannot transition the puck out of our zone
4. Goaltending was atrocious leading to playing from behind consistently

With the amount of offence we have generated he is doing pretty good and yes, with a bit more consistency he could have 3 or 4 more points but it isn't just him.

When Bran pulled the puck out of the scrum and drove the slot he put the pass right in to Baths skates or it is an easy goal. Norris has fanned on 1/2 his one timer chances. Tkachuk has been jittery in close and missed easy passes or flubbed making an easy pass.

Heck if the PP in general was league average he could have a bunch more points. No PP goals in 8 games is crazy.

I am happy with him, he is playing hard, physical and creates chances every game...he will start to have some multi-point games and that PPG will come up as the season goes on.

 

[bert]

Really?

I figure given how he played last season and what the team composition is this year he is doing quite well.

Not saying others aren't taking these items in to account but for discussion let's consider the following:

1. Off for ~12 months
2. Put on top line against top opposition
3. D corps cannot transition the puck out of our zone
4. Goaltending was atrocious leading to playing from behind consistently

With the amount of offence we have generated he is doing pretty good and yes, with a bit more consistency he could have 3 or 4 more points but it isn't just him.

When Bran pulled the puck out of the scrum and drove the slot he put the pass right in to Baths skates or it is an easy goal. Norris has fanned on 1/2 his one timer chances. Tkachuk has been jittery in close and missed easy passes or flubbed making an easy pass.

Heck if the PP in general was league average he could have a bunch more points. No PP goals in 8 games is crazy.

I am happy with him, he is playing hard, physical and creates chances every game...he will start to have some multi-point games and that PPG will come up as the season goes on.

The Brannstrom play was in his skates yeah but had to be or it was getting picked off, elite players convert on that you see it in the highlites every night. I mean it was a hard one for sure, he had a few other glorious chances, his conversion rate just needs to be better. I dont hate Batherson or anything like that I just think he has the talent to be finishing off way more of these plays. Its pretty safe to say that if Stuetzle had better linemates his production would be way up. He sets players up for what should be sure goals multiple times a game and they rarely get converted. Stepan should be no where near that line he cant keep up.

 

[OD99]

The Brannstrom play was in his skates yeah but had to be or it was getting picked off, elite players convert on that you see it in the highlites every night. I mean it was a hard one for sure, he had a few other glorious chances, his conversion rate just needs to be better.

Stepan should be no where near that line he cant keep up.

Agreed on the pass however the real answer is Brann should have shot or put the pass in the triangle of the D and Bath has an easy tap in.

Stepan shouldn't be near any of our young emerging talent...I dont wish him ill but would be happy if Tierney gets to C Stu and Bath tonight...he is quicker and a better passer.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

What a game so far by him tonight. The difference in how he controls the puck is night and day and literally makes him look like a top line skilled player vs energy guy.

Attaboy Bather

 

[KnuckChuckinTkachuk]

What a game so far by him tonight. The difference in how he controls the puck is night and day and literally makes him look like a top line skilled player vs energy guy.

Attaboy Bather

He is a top line winger, just be a little more patient. No one and I mean no one should be doubting Drake, he has proven to be dominant in the AHL and trains with some of the best (Crosby, Mackinnon, Marchand) so imo it was only a matter of time before he broke out and got comfortable.

 

[aragorn]

Ottawa is going to have a number of very good forwards, some of them with some good size to boot.
Tkachuk, Batherson, Paul, Pinto & Formenton are all big, are all skilled, are all hard to play against & they all have a little touch of nasty with each one of them to a degree. Then there is Norris, Stutzle, White & C. Brown who all bring a different kind of skillset to improve this team. It will be interesting to see Pinto & Formenton in this lineup at some future point. I would love to see them give Paul a shot at centre between Stutzle & Batherson, I imagine Pinto will eventually get a shot at that spot too when he gets here.

 

[Altimus]

I'm slightly confused. Be honest only read through the last page. Why isnt Batherson considered a rookie on NHL.com . I thought you needed 25 games in a season. I tried google but clearly failed.

 

[SensBrawler]

I'm slightly confused. Be honest only read through the last page. Why isnt Batherson considered a rookie on NHL.com . I thought you needed 25 games in a season. I tried google but clearly failed.

"To be eligible for the Calder Memorial Trophy, a player cannot have played more than 25 games in any single preceding season nor in six or more games in each of any two preceding seasons in any major professional league."

Batherson played more than six NHL games in both 2018-19 and 2019-20, so that's why he's not eligible.

 

[Altimus]

"To be eligible for the Calder Memorial Trophy, a player cannot have played more than 25 games in any single preceding season nor in six or more games in each of any two preceding seasons in any major professional league."

Batherson played more than six NHL games in both 2018-19 and 2019-20, so that's why he's not eligible.

Thank you for not being condescending

 

[SensontheRush]

Thank you for not being condescending

I don't think anyone can blame you, especially since TSN is goofing it up during a nationally televised broadcast

 

[dumbdick]

A bit crazy that a guy with six KHL seasons under his belt might win the Calder, but Drake is ineligible.

 

[OD99]

Agreed on the pass however the real answer is Brann should have shot or put the pass in the triangle of the D and Bath has an easy tap in.

Stepan shouldn't be near any of our young emerging talent...I dont wish him ill but would be happy if Tierney gets to C Stu and Bath tonight...he is quicker and a better passer.

Eesh...I know it was an accident but I admit I felt bad watching last night!

As for Bath, dude is bringing it - again he generated a lot of opportunities and was rewarded with another goal and assist (could have more again). Back-to-back multi point games and a goal streak going and **trending** towards a 50 point pace over 82 games and I think his PPG will continue to improve as the season goes on.