Post-Game Talk: Drai needs to learn how to change.

[trick91]

Still unbelievable how we have two powerplays over the last three games. Anyone have a video of the Vegas player grabbing the puck and playing it with like 2 minutes left? Should have been an easy call.

 

[onetweasy]

You can bet Tippett is going back to his favorite Mike Smith after this. I don't hate Smith, but by any objective measure we should be riding Koskinen at this point with how well he's played.

Smith does actually help this team from a puck moving standpoint. We are much better at getting the puck out of our zone when he is in net.

 

[Drivesaitl]

If you think 3 on 3 results are immaterial and the additional point that is won/lost due to them isn't worth discussing than don't engage in that conversation...

Tippett has been too lenient with some of our guys shift lengths all year and it seems to be magnified once we hit overtime

I'm engaging in a discussion expecting to see discussion of a game, you know, the 60minutes than is the primary segment worth discussing.

3 on 3 formats are garbage and not worth that much concern. Its an insignificant aspect. I wouldn't even call extra time hockey.

This is a PGT right? The G stands for game? I expected to see comments on the actual game. Not just on the 2 minute candy colored NHL OT format.


Tippett is "lenient" with Drai and McD because they damn well pull this team. he certainly isn't going to reserve his focus for players that want to move the dial every game, almost every shift. That's the least of his concern in a roster season where just completing a lineup card has probably been an exercise in positive thinking.

Drai and McD will particularly want to chew up a lot of minutes on a team BECAUSE there's hardly any depth on the team and they know it. Most of the season, and most of these players career time line here the storyline has been anytime McD or Drai are not on the ice is a pretty bad time for the Oilers. Its what they're conditioned to think. (thanks to Chiarelli)

I'll worry more about Drai and McD shifts when we have a deep bench capable of logging more minutes. Until then a tired Drai or McD are better options than almost anybody else and thus why one of the smartest coaches in the business keeps tapping their back.

 

[CookiesAndMilk]

Smith does actually help this team from a puck moving standpoint. We are much better at getting the puck out of our zone when he is in net.

I really noticed that in the beginning of the season but not so much anymore recently.

 

[Weitz]

Another woeful game. This could be the start of a down slide if they don't get their shit together.

The positive is there were a few points during the game where they played well and competed. But need that for a full 60 minutes.

 

[Jesus Take the Wheel]

Tippett is "lenient" with Drai and McD because they damn well pull this team. he certainly isn't going to reserve his focus for players that want to move the dial every game, almost every shift. That's the least of his concern in a roster season where just completing a lineup card has probably been an exercise in positive thinking.

Drai and McD will particularly want to chew up a lot of minutes on a team BECAUSE there's hardly any depth on the team and they know it. Most of the season, and most of these players career time line here the storyline has been anytime McD or Drai are not on the ice is a pretty bad time for the Oilers. Its what they're conditioned to think. (thanks to Chiarelli)

I'll worry more about Drai and McD shifts when we have a deep bench capable of logging more minutes. Until then a tired Drai or McD are better options than almost anybody else and thus why one of the smartest coaches in the business keeps tapping their back.

While a tired McDavid/Drai may be better than most of the rest of this roster, they are also worse than a rested McDavid/Drai, which I would prefer to see on the ice more often then the tired version of themselves.

It's also one of the reasons why they get a bad reputation defensively by other fans around the league and statistically... They are good defensive players but they get caught tired too often in the dzone because they skip a line change to try and squeeze in on more offensive play then get caught on the dzone tired if they puck goes the opposite direction.

And for the record this isn't just about Drai/McDavid, RNH and Klef as also in the top 13 players in the league for shift length/game, so thats 4/13 players in the league averaging 57 second or greater shift lengths being Oilers

 

[tardigrade81]

Yeah Tippetts been awful this season. Wake up

Can all be solved if we have a nice playoff run. I do think Mcdavid makes the difference last night and we win

now saying that.... if Koskinen wasn’t in God mode like he has been latrly we probably still lose. So.... I dunno.

 

[Drivesaitl]

While a tired McDavid/Drai may be better than most of the rest of this roster, they are also worse than a rested McDavid/Drai, which I would prefer to see on the ice more often then the tired version of themselves.

It's also one of the reasons why they get a bad reputation defensively by other fans around the league and statistically... They are good defensive players but they get caught tired too often in the dzone because they skip a line change to try and squeeze in on more offensive play then get caught on the dzone tired if they puck goes the opposite direction.

And for the record this isn't just about Drai/McDavid, RNH and Klef as also in the top 13 players in the league for shift length/game, so thats 4/13 players in the league averaging 57 second or greater shift lengths being Oilers

LIke I said I'll worry about it, and Tippett will, when this roster has any semblance of being a compelte lineup. As it is Tippett spends considerable time trying to clone all of McD, Drai, and Nuge on different lines in different positions and trying to stretch out the few ready to go players he has.

McD and Drai have inordinate shifts and minutes because no other team in a playoff spot has this kind of very limited roster. I understand your concern, I do, but McD and Drai would be league leaders in minutes, in shift lengths, in amount of shifts for obvious roster reasons. if theres another NHL playoff team with this kind of lack of supporting depth name it.

 

[Oil Dood]

LIke I said I'll worry about it, and Tippett will, when this roster has any semblance of being a compelte lineup. As it is Tippett spends considerable time trying to clone all of McD, Drai, and Nuge on different lines in different positions and trying to stretch out the few ready to go players he has.

McD and Drai have inordinate shifts and minutes because no other team in a playoff spot has this kind of very limited roster. I understand your concern, I do, but McD and Drai would be league leaders in minutes, in shift lengths, in amount of shifts for obvious roster reasons. if theres another NHL playoff team with this kind of lack of supporting depth name it.

Yeah, this is really much ado about nothing.
Was his shift too long? Yes.
Did Drai give the puck away? No.
Drai and McD have won us far more than they have lost us.

 

[Jesus Take the Wheel]

LIke I said I'll worry about it, and Tippett will, when this roster has any semblance of being a compelte lineup. As it is Tippett spends considerable time trying to clone all of McD, Drai, and Nuge on different lines in different positions and trying to stretch out the few ready to go players he has.

McD and Drai have inordinate shifts and minutes because no other team in a playoff spot has this kind of very limited roster. I understand your concern, I do, but McD and Drai would be league leaders in minutes, in shift lengths, in amount of shifts for obvious roster reasons. if theres another NHL playoff team with this kind of lack of supporting depth name it.

But thats the thing, Drai is 61st in the league for shifts taken by a forward but leads the league in forward time on ice.

And in terms of shift lengths if you want to look even deeper, there are 61 players in the league with 0:53 seconds or longer average shift length, 7 of them are Oilers. This seems like a bit of a coaching problem to me

 

[Drivesaitl]

But thats the thing, Drai is 61st in the league for shifts taken by a forward but leads the league in forward time on ice.

And in terms of shift lengths if you want to look even deeper, there are 61 players in the league with 0:53 seconds or longer average shift length, 7 of them are Oilers. This seems like a bit of a coaching problem to me

With all respect you have to consider (seems like you are not) that shift length stats and # of shift stats are not mutually exclusive. In other words one variable influencing the other. Quite clearly Drai's number of shifts would be higher if his shift length was lower. Thus on the basis of shift lengths he gets less shifts because NHL games are a fixed finite 60mins.

Its not a coaching problem. Its a roster problem. I think that's clear. you can disagree, fine, but I think I'm making a salient point.

 

[ElysiumAB]

I kept telling the part of my brain that said "this is where Drai staying out costs us." to shut up but then that happens.

He was out so long I almost posted that mid-shift, on mobile... but figured I'd just watch it happen and save the typing.

Drai's play to ruin Kosko's shutout in the Colombus game was one of the laziest/brain dead plays I've seen in a long time.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

With no practise time in a while, no wonder AA hasn't gelled with anyone and looks unsure what to do out there. You can watch game tape all you want but without actually practising it, it's easy to look out of place.

I'm still hopeful he can find chemistry on the top line. Hopefully a solid day of practise will help him get going.

 

[Jesus Take the Wheel]

With all respect you have to consider (seems like you are not) that shift length stats and # of shift stats are not mutually exclusive. In other words one variable influencing the other. Quite clearly Drai's number of shifts would be higher if his shift length was lower.

Its not a coaching problem. Its a roster problem. I think that's clear. you can disagree, fine, but I think I'm making a salient point.

Yes obviously those two stats are directly related, that's exactly what my argument is that his icetime should be managed better so that he has higher shifts/game and lower TOI/shift..

Do you not find it ridiculous he has 230 less shifts than Anze Kopitar this year while averaging over a minute more of icetime than him as an example

Drai and McD are 1st and 3rd in TOI/game yet not even in the top 100 in Shift/game

 

[ToeMcDrag83]

Man we sucked last night. I'll take the point of course (thanks Mikko) but that one left an awful taste. Officially in a long stretch of poor play. If the Hart were judged on this sample, it would have to go to Mikko/Smith.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yes obviously those two stats are directly related, that's exactly what my argument is that his icetime should be managed better so that he has higher shifts/game and lower TOI/shift..

Do you not find it ridiculous he has 230 less shifts than Anze Kopitar this year while averaging over a minute more of icetime than him as an example

Its an interesting discussion. Thanks for having it. I get your point. My response is Kopitar wasn't borne into a roster lacking any sort of depth for 5 seasons. What the Oilers have done here on the McD time clock is pretty much awful. They said they had to get it right this time when drafting McD. They got it wrong, hired Chia, and we're still paying years later.

McD and Drai were trained to take long shifts because of an org with a garbage support roster. I don't see this as anything innately with them, or with the coach. Lets remember too that coaches have a very tender relationship now with star players. One that can easily get bruised, and coaches always lose in that. Tippett is a vet coach here, but a first year coach here. His first matter of business is not going to be cracking on the guys that get this ship anywhere.

Not sure if you caught it but Tippett is even giving McD and Drai days off, days off practice ala Deboers. He's basically saying those players are fine. He's focused on the rest of the team covering their deficits. Not a bad approach, not a silly approach.

McLellan made some mistakes with Pavelski, Thornton, Marleau in SJ. he made a couple mistakes with players here too, and notably Draisaitl. Tippett is more careful not to put his foot in shit. Ironically Mcllelan was here because he lost the bench in SJ. Tippett has never lost his job like that.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

What an embarrassment to be a ref in this league.

I'd never tell anyone what I truly did for a living. Probably tell them I'm an internet scammer instead. Get more respect that way.

 

[harpoon]

Did you miss the point about the OT being immaterial? I simply don't care about the NHL OT format, 3 on 3, Shootout. I certainly don't watch any ASG's or skills contests to see more of it.

Its a poor argument. The OT is not ‘immaterial’. Whether you or I care about it or not, it counts for one point in the standings. As a player, a coach, a fan you can’t just hand wave that away. Furthermore if you really believe OT is not worth commenting about then consistency of thought says that any good/great plays Draisaitl may make in overtime are also not worth noting.

If what and you and others are saying is true, and its been demonstrated so much before, then why is Drai on the ice in OT or to start an OT. Probably because any decent coach realizes 3 on 3 is a shit format, almost random, and its not worth thinking too much about.

If you noticed I twice posted that this is a coaching failure as much as it is a failure on the part of Draisaitl. And I think you may be partly correct when you assert that Tippet isn’t spending much time thinking about his OT strategy. He probably does think it’s good enough to throw Draisaitl and McDavid over the boards and hope for the best. That’s a mistake on his part. I believe @Up the Irons made an astute point earlier. Teams are getting wise to the Oilers limited game plan in OT. Wait for Draisaitl and McDavid to tire themselves out and score when they go to the bench or become so gassed they can’t play properly.

But all that aside Drai is one of the best conditioned athletes in hockey. As seemingly crazy as it is he probably thought he had some juice left and was still capable of a lethal rush. I don't doubt it. Not sure if you;ve noticed it but Drai will sometimes essentially make it look like he's out of gas on a shift, just to throw off coverage. He'll then lean into a burner skate trying to strip the D. Drai feigns being spent on shifts. He did twice earlier in the game. Its a trick he uses.

I agree he does that sometimes. And sometimes it’s not even a trick. As you say he’s such a great athlete that he is often able to summon a last burst of energy when an opportunity presents. We’ve seen him win games in OT that way. But I’m sorry, he was done in the OT yesterday. He was done well before he decided to wave off Koskinen’s attempt to freeze the puck. Every player on the ice for Vegas knew it and they tag teamed Bear with ferocity seeing the chance to finish the game. I won’t say it was selfish for him to stay out there because like you I think he believes he’s the team’s best chance to win it. There’s some arrogance there though imo.

Useless? Drai on one leg is better than anybody but one player on this team.

You know that isn’t literally true. The Oilers have other players capable of playing the skating game required in 3on3. Certainly RNH and Yamamoto. But also Kassian and Archibald could be utilized. I hope Tippet realizes that he’s squandered probably four or five points now by over depending on his two superstars and comes up with a better OT plan. Shorter shifts wherever possible should be a part of that plan.

 

[Bank Shot]

Yes obviously those two stats are directly related, that's exactly what my argument is that his icetime should be managed better so that he has higher shifts/game and lower TOI/shift..

Do you not find it ridiculous he has 230 less shifts than Anze Kopitar this year while averaging over a minute more of icetime than him as an example

Drai and McD are 1st and 3rd in TOI/game yet not even in the top 100 in Shift/game

Some of that has to do with these guys playing the while 2 minutes of PP's which is fine IMO.

I feel like they just need to keep down shift length and keep tempo up in other areas of the game.

 

[Jesus Take the Wheel]

Its an interesting discussion. Thanks for having it. I get your point. My response is Kopitar wasn't borne into a roster lacking any sort of depth for 5 seasons. What the Oilers have done here on the McD time clock is pretty much awful. They said they had to get it right this time when drafting McD. They got it wrong, hired Chia, and we're still paying years later.

McD and Drai were trained to take long shifts because of an org with a garbage support roster. I don't see this as anything innately with them, or with the coach. Lets remember too that coaches have a very tender relationship now with star players. One that can easily get bruised, and coaches always lose in that. Tippett is a vet coach here, but a first year coach here. His first matter of business is not going to be cracking on the guys that get this ship anywhere.

Not sure if you caught it but Tippett is even giving McD and Drai days off, days off practice ala Deboers. He's basically saying those players are fine. He's focused on the rest of the team covering their deficits. Not a bad approach, not a silly approach.

McLellan made some mistakes with Pavelski, Thornton, Marleau in SJ. he made a couple mistakes with players here too, and notably Draisaitl. Tippett is more careful not to put his foot in shit. Ironically Mcllelan was here because he lost the bench in SJ. Tippett has never lost his job like that.

Which to an extent I agree with and not against them taking above average shift lengths because of the lack of depth, I just believe the discrepancy is starting to become so large between the two variables that it should be something worth discussing.

FWIW I also think its one of the big reasons why McDavid/Drai's defensive numbers take a hit at times as well. They're both great defensive players that just get caught on the ice on long shifts.. It's not a coincidence that Selke caliber players like Berg/Kop/RoR/Couts average a lot higher shift counts per game

 

[Drivesaitl]

Its a poor argument. The OT is not ‘immaterial’. Whether you or I care about it or not, it counts for one point in the standings. As a player, a coach, a fan you can’t just hand wave that away. Furthermore if you really believe OT is not worth commenting about then consistency of thought says that any good/great plays Draisaitl may make in overtime are also not worth noting.
If you noticed I twice posted that this is a coaching failure as much as it is a failure on the part of Draisaitl. And I think you may be partly correct when you assert that Tippet isn’t spending much time thinking about his OT strategy. He probably does think it’s good enough to throw Draisaitl and McDavid over the boards and hope for the best. That’s a mistake on his part. I believe @Up the Irons made an astute point earlier. Teams are getting wise to the Oilers limited game plan in OT. Wait for Draisaitl and McDavid to tire themselves out and score when they go to the bench or become so gassed they can’t play properly.
I agree he does that sometimes. And sometimes it’s not even a trick. As you say he’s such a great athlete that he is often able to summon a last burst of energy when an opportunity presents. We’ve seen him win games in OT that way. But I’m sorry, he was done in the OT yesterday. He was done well before he decided to wave off Koskinen’s attempt to freeze the puck. Every player on the ice for Vegas knew it and they tag teamed Bear with ferocity seeing the chance to finish the game. I won’t say it was selfish for him to stay out there because like you I think he believes he’s the team’s best chance to win it. There’s some arrogance there though imo.
You know that isn’t literally true. The Oilers have other players capable of playing the skating game required in 3on3. Certainly RNH and Yamamoto. But also Kassian and Archibald could be utilized. I hope Tippet realizes that he’s squandered probably four or five points now by over depending on his two superstars and comes up with a better OT plan. Shorter shifts wherever possible should be a part of that plan.

This is one area we won't agree on. I'm a purist. My take on extra time is that its garbage. Shoot outs are garbage, 3 on 3 is garbage and I've been remarkably consistent on that since the inception. I don't like the formats, they hold negligible value, they are fortunately not part of playoffs and its no real reason for worry.

Heres the deal. The Oilers will finish 2nd in division. I'm pretty confident of that, and that they won't be first, and they won't be 3rd, and they won't be wild card. Thus me saying the point is immaterial. Really all the Oilers could expect out of that game is zero points and somehow they got one.

No quality coach practices this format to much extent or loses any sleep over it. Extra points are not all that important. Only for bubble clubs. The oilers are not that this year, which is a pretty good state of affairs.

This is certainly not a coaching failure. As I mentioned its coaching failure to put much importance on 3 on 3 or shootout vs proper focus on 5 on 5 and special teams which constitute what hockey is.

 

[McClelland]

I have wished a long time for a Koski new level , then he shows up, but the team in front of him quits!

Dont know whats happening the last 2 games, we have stunk like a lottery team!

 

[frag2]

Well go ahead and flame our MVP this season. Have people here call him a dunce, braindead, stupid, selfish, lazy. With all these comments occurring in the thread.

Its a bit much and I'm pushing back on those kinds of moronic comments and generalizations. (not saying you, my earlier post wasn't even responding to you)

It angers me when the teams best player gets piled on. Whether that be Drai or McD.

And its okay for you to call Yamamoto a stupid runt in others?

Ever heard of 'practice what you preach?'

Such a hypocrite. Typical of you when it involves criticism of Drai

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Yeah Tippetts been awful this season. Wake up

Press boxing Jones after last game was really stupid.

 

[Shathar]

Was a brutal effort last night. They're creative in the offensive zone, and they (well, Kosko) weren't bad at defending, but the transition game has been terrible. As some mentioned, must be something (flu) going through the team.