Low Effort GDT Draft day 2 - 11:30AM - SN PART 3

[Taluss]

Likely neither

Why's that? Too high of pick needed for them? We can get better? I know next to nothing about next years draft but want to start following it now

 

[BondraTime]

Why's that? Too high of pick needed for them? We can get better? I know next to nothing about next years draft but want to start following it now

They are two of about 6-7 guys at the top of the draft, those are two of them. They will go somewhere in the top 10, no way of knowing where in the top 10 we will pick because of the shortened season and lottery.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

This from Michael Clifford at Dobber this morning. Sorry if it's been discussed already:

• I can't help but feel that Ottawa pulled a 2015 Bruins here. I don't have a real problem with the Tim Stützle but it does seem he'll be a winger and easily the best of their draft picks (like Jake DeBruskbut better). And then there are two guys picked later over others that have more upside, effectively trading upside for security and getting neither. And the Sens absolutely cannot afford to punt this draft. The next 10 years of this franchise hinges on the 2020 NHL Draft. I really do hope the Sens end up with three good NHLers because the fanbase doesn't deserve more misery beyond whatever Melnyk inflicts. I just don't like their picks, in totality, at all. Please prove me wrong, if only for the sanity of some of my friends.

Brutal take.

 

[BondraTime]

This from Michael Clifford at Dobber this morning. Sorry if it's been discussed already:

• I can't help but feel that Ottawa pulled a 2015 Bruins here. I don't have a real problem with the Tim Stützle but it does seem he'll be a winger and easily the best of their draft picks (like Jake DeBruskbut better). And then there are two guys picked later over others that have more upside, effectively trading upside for security and getting neither. And the Sens absolutely cannot afford to punt this draft. The next 10 years of this franchise hinges on the 2020 NHL Draft. I really do hope the Sens end up with three good NHLers because the fanbase doesn't deserve more misery beyond whatever Melnyk inflicts. I just don't like their picks, in totality, at all. Please prove me wrong, if only for the sanity of some of my friends.

Terrible, terrible take, but not really surprising.

Guy is showing how little he knows about this, and the 2015 draft. Pretty impressive actually

 

[Korpse]

This from Michael Clifford at Dobber this morning. Sorry if it's been discussed already:

• I can't help but feel that Ottawa pulled a 2015 Bruins here. I don't have a real problem with the Tim Stützle but it does seem he'll be a winger and easily the best of their draft picks (like Jake DeBruskbut better). And then there are two guys picked later over others that have more upside, effectively trading upside for security and getting neither. And the Sens absolutely cannot afford to punt this draft. The next 10 years of this franchise hinges on the 2020 NHL Draft. I really do hope the Sens end up with three good NHLers because the fanbase doesn't deserve more misery beyond whatever Melnyk inflicts. I just don't like their picks, in totality, at all. Please prove me wrong, if only for the sanity of some of my friends.

Dobber is probably the last place I'd go for analysis.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Who is Michael Clifford and why does his opinion matter?

how can he say this about the wings then go on to say what he said about Ottawa? Ottawa has more forward talent in their system than the red wings now IMO. Also, Stutzle is Jake DeBrusk?

• Detroit is putting together some serious talent up front. There's already the top line of Bertuzzi-Larkin-Mantha. They traded for Robby Fabbri, have Filip Zadina rounding into form, and Joe Veleno on the way. Now they add Lucas Raymond to the mix. I think Veleno's progression is important – a legit 2C is crucial here – but the Wings are putting together a real nice crop of forwards.

 

[Agent Zub]

Who is Michael Clifford and why does his opinion matter?

how can he say this about the wings then go on to say what he said about Ottawa? Ottawa has more forward talent in their system than the red wings now IMO. Also, Stutzle is Jake DeBrusk?

• Detroit is putting together some serious talent up front. There's already the top line of Bertuzzi-Larkin-Mantha. They traded for Robby Fabbri, have Filip Zadina rounding into form, and Joe Veleno on the way. Now they add Lucas Raymond to the mix. I think Veleno's progression is important – a legit 2C is crucial here – but the Wings are putting together a real nice crop of forwards.

Detroits talent is already producing in the NHL. we only have Brady who has established himself. Stutzle might be the difference as he's a special talent otherwise Detroit's forward talent as a whole is better.

a lot of people and I feel Sens fan in particular, are sleeping on Zadina. i get that Brady looks awesome but so does Zadina tbh. good chance he develops into a 7o point forward.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Our European scouting staff either needs less pull, or a big upgrade. Outside of Stutzle I'm not impressed at all with our Euro picks

Jarventie seems like a good pick tho.

 

[Tuna99]

Jarventie seems like a good pick tho.

apparently has an attitude problem, doesn’t listen to his coaches and doesn’t present well in team building events.

Sounds like Mike Hoffman.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Terrible, terrible take, but not really surprising.

Guy is showing how little he knows about this, and the 2015 draft. Pretty impressive actually

if they are right about this, will we say "ah alright dobber was right" or will it be "doesnt matter they arent deemed pro scouts by the NHL

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Jarventie seems like a good pick tho.

does he play with Lassi? i didnt know that... and am.... not surprised

 

[GCK]

if they are right about this, will we say "ah alright dobber was right" or will it be "doesnt matter they arent deemed pro scouts by the NHL

He’s entitled to an opinion but when I read his assessment he seems like an idiot so whatever.

 

[BondraTime]

if they are right about this, will we say "ah alright dobber was right" or will it be "doesnt matter they arent deemed pro scouts by the NHL

We can say they got that right, part of the allure with making predictions about 200+ guys every year, you’re always going to get some right, and they will be the ones being touted. I’m looking more at the thought process of his opinion, which is awful. An opinion is an opinion.

You’re really fixated on the whole internet/NHL scout thing.

 

[aragorn]

Clifford seems like just another guy who prefers the finesse players over the solid two way 200' players. I going to go ahead & assume he is a 20 something yr old guy who prefers these little guys that put up a lot of points over solid guys who put up less pts, but contribute more in all areas that coaches love. The internet is full of those new school guys.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

We can say they got that right, part of the allure with making predictions about 200+ guys every year, you’re always going to get some right, and they will be the ones being touted. I’m looking more at the thought process of his opinion, which is awful. An opinion is an opinion.

You’re really fixated on the whole internet/NHL scout thing.

no im fixated on credit where credits due.. even if its small credit or of no importance like credit from me or you or whomever here. like if a guy watched a ton of junior hockey which is very normal around these parts. and they see a play ranked by the sens lets say... and they say you know what i dont think that player is very good.. and the sens take that person 1st round... if that player turns out to be not very good... damn i expect that person to get some props... not if theyre saying every single one of our picks is bad every single year... then no of course he will get some right but that doesnt deserve credit. the thought process is " watced this player, didnt think he would amount to much... or... watched this guy, thought the guys ranked around him would be better nhlers.."

 

[NyQuil]

a lot of people and I feel Sens fan in particular, are sleeping on Zadina. i get that Brady looks awesome but so does Zadina tbh. good chance he develops into a 7o point forward.

I agree that it's silly to call the pick a win over Zadina so soon into their careers.

But even if Zadina puts up more points, there will be discussion of who adds more value. I think Tkachuk adds value in a lot of different ways that a one-dimensional forward may not.

 

[BondraTime]

no im fixated on credit where credits due.. even if its small credit or of no importance like credit from me or you or whomever here. like if a guy watched a ton of junior hockey which is very normal around these parts. and they see a play ranked by the sens lets say... and they say you know what i dont think that player is very good.. and the sens take that person 1st round... if that player turns out to be not very good... damn i expect that person to get some props... not if theyre saying every single one of our picks is bad every single year... then no of course he will get some right but that doesnt deserve credit. the thought process is " watced this player, didnt think he would amount to much... or... watched this guy, thought the guys ranked around him would be better nhlers.."

Judging from his post, which is what everyone is doing, I’d be surprised if he watched any of his games. Seems like he’s repeating what is being said be people online, and then doing a very, very bad job rationalizing it.

What’s the point of the Stutzle-DeBrusk comparison? It makes zero sense. The only reason he’s even doing it is because the Bruins has 3 1st round picks in 2015.

How, in any way, are the Sens picks, similar to the Bruins 3 1st rounders from 2015? They took 2 guys rated in the 2nd at 13th and 14th. Sens took a guy rated around 5th, at 5th, and a guy rated around 25th, at 28th.

“Sens traded upside for security, and got neither”

Yeah, that’s a bad opinion.

Put in good work, and do a good job rationalizing your opinions; you should get all the credit in the world. Put out an opinion that has no rationalization, its just words.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Judging from his post, which is what everyone is doing, I’d be surprised if he watched any of his games. Seems like he’s repeating what is being said be people online, and then doing a very, very bad job rationalizing it.

What’s the point of the Stutzle-DeBrusk comparison? It makes zero sense. The only reason he’s even doing it is because the Bruins has 3 1st round picks in 2015.

How, in any way, are the Sens picks, similar to the Bruins 3 1st rounders from 2015? They took 2 guys rated in the 2nd at 13th and 14th. Sens took a guy rated around 5th, at 5th, and a guy rated around 25th, at 28th.

“Sens traded upside for security, and got neither”

Yeah, that’s a bad opinion.

Put in good work, and do a good job rationalizing your opinions; you should get all the credit in the world. Put out an opinion that has no rationalization, its just words.

I don’t think he compared stuetzle to debrusk in talent. It’s a bad comparison Sanderson to synishyn if we want to be technically about the bruins in 2015 to us in 2020. But it is very possible we left a lot of high end talent on the board. Remains to be seen. He’s not the first to not love our draft. So far I’ve seen grant mccagg absolutely adore our first round. Which is great. And Pierre McGuire who i don’t take seriously. If grant is right I’ll be sure to let him know on Twitter and toot that horn here. I’ve never had any issue with admitting I was wrong.

i don’t really look at “we picked a guy within his ranking range so therefore it can’t be seen as a bad pick everyone had him ranked there”

 

[R2010]

I wouldn't worry too much about Dobber's view this year

 

[Speatleysson]

Man, really wanted Peterka, have no idea why we never nabbed him. Looks like a Clarke McArthur type player. Maybe Sens thought Jarventie was gonna be gone by next pick.

This is just my opinion, but I don't think Peterka is talked about as a late 1st rounder if he didn't have Stutzle and Seider inflating his stock at the WJC. We are 1 of many teams that weren't high on him.

I too wanted Peterka but I'll trust the pros with this decision.

 

[NyQuil]

I wouldn't worry too much about Dobber's view this year

We judge drafting predictions based on their proximity to the actual draft results but it would probably be a lot more interesting to look at them qualitatively five years down the road.

 

[BondraTime]

We judge drafting predictions based on their proximity to the actual draft results but it would probably be a lot more interesting to look at them qualitatively five years down the road.

Yup, both are pretty good.

Obviously Dobber, Scouching, etc. was pretty far off on what was seen right now. Maybe it looks better in the future, and their rankings can be viewed in a different light.

 

[NyQuil]

This from Michael Clifford at Dobber this morning. Sorry if it's been discussed already:

• I can't help but feel that Ottawa pulled a 2015 Bruins here. I don't have a real problem with the Tim Stützle but it does seem he'll be a winger and easily the best of their draft picks (like Jake DeBruskbut better). And then there are two guys picked later over others that have more upside, effectively trading upside for security and getting neither. And the Sens absolutely cannot afford to punt this draft. The next 10 years of this franchise hinges on the 2020 NHL Draft. I really do hope the Sens end up with three good NHLers because the fanbase doesn't deserve more misery beyond whatever Melnyk inflicts. I just don't like their picks, in totality, at all. Please prove me wrong, if only for the sanity of some of my friends.

I think it's a legitimate take.

Basically we picked guys above their consensus draft ranking to some extent and we emphasized all-around play over offensive skill for the latter two.

I don't see what is so controversial about that. It's not even that unexpected.

The easiest (and most frequent) evaluations of drafts involve the teams picking up the droppers as "winners" and the teams reaching for the "risers" as losers, as compared with some combination of overall draft rankings.

Time will prove either him or us wrong.

I'll admit the Jake DeBrusk comment is a bit of a head-scratcher. I am curious who he would have picked at #3.

 

[R2010]

We judge drafting predictions based on their proximity to the actual draft results but it would probably be a lot more interesting to look at them qualitatively five years down the road.

Absolutely. But keep in mind when you see people judging the performance of teams in the draft that it is pretty misleading to use the lower percentage sources to justify that but yet we see it all the time. If your picks are in line with McKenzie and some of the more reliable sources in the 1st I struggle to see the picks as being a reach. Does it mean those sources are right? Probably not but i've yet to see much compelling evidence out there that 'new age' sources outperform traditional sources.

 

[NyQuil]

Absolutely. But keep in mind when you see people judging the performance of teams in the draft that it is pretty misleading to use the lower percentage sources to justify that but yet we see it all the time. If your picks are in line with McKenzie and some of the more reliable sources in the 1st I struggle to see the picks as being a reach. Does it mean those sources are right? Probably not but i've yet to see much compelling evidence out there that 'new age' sources outperform traditional sources.

Yeah, that's a fair point.

There are people out there who get absolutely outraged whenever any draftee is chosen ahead of his aggregated draft ranking statistic (or cherry pick a ranking).