Draft and UDFA Thread 2017-18

[Edge]

Agreed on some of this. I honestly think that Zucc stays. What are your thoughts on Veleno, then?

I like him, can't say I necessarily love him.

I think he's a high probability NHL player, but I'm not convinced the high-end offense is there. Even after his trade, he was better but still didn't strike me as a guy I could see serving as the center of a top line.

Second line? Perhaps. Third line? Definitely.

But in a draft with some enticing talent, it would be hard for me to pass on the guys commonly viewed as being at the very top.

I have him ranked 13th.

 

[Joey Bones]

Central scouting released their new rankings. Top 15 from eaxh:

International skaters:
Dahlin
Boqvist
Kravtsov
Kaut
Ginning - why?
Kotkaniemi
Denisenko
Lunderstrom
Olofsson
Filip Johansson
Kupari
Bokk
Hallander
Lundkvist
Fehervary

NA:
Svech
Tkachuk
Zadina
Bouchard
Dobson
Hughes
Wahlstrom
Veleno
Hayton
Noel -ugh
Sandin
Farabee
McIsaac
Ty Smith -wow
Akil Thomas

Notables: Wilde (17), Groulx (20), K Miller (23), Jack Drury (27), Merkley (45), Pivonka (105)

I, too, questioned why Ginning and Noel were so high. I could see Ginning higher than Noel, but I don't think both of them are 1st round talents. Anyways, it's interesting to see Bouchard and Dobson over Hughes and Wahlstrom. Also, I like that Fehervary is ranked high. Rumored to be a 3rd/4th round pick, ATM.

Also to note that Liam Kirk and Mathias-Emilio Pettersen made the list relatively higher than the midseason rankings!!

 

[eco's bones]

I, too, questioned why Ginning and Noel were so high. I could see Ginning higher than Noel, but I don't think both of them are 1st round talents. Anyways, it's interesting to see Bouchard and Dobson over Hughes and Wahlstrom. Also, I like that Fehervary is ranked high. Rumored to be a 3rd/4th round pick, ATM.

Also to note that Liam Kirk and Mathias-Emilio Pettersen made the list relatively higher than the midseason rankings!!

Liam Kirk's the British guy?

 

[eco's bones]

Nash got what he got because of his status in the league, not because of his play. I don't think Zucc is valued like Nash around the league, even though he is the better player nowadays.

Nash went at the trade deadline when playoff bound teams are trying to get one up on their opposition. Wasn't really any other forwards with Nash's size and skills available. Simple as that. If Zucc goes at the trade deadline next year--that might be where you get the most value out of him too---though he is a different package. Better player than Nash to my mind for sure but Nash even if he doesn't produce much offense is a big body and big bodies can wear down defenses.

 

[Joey Bones]

Farabee is really low, are they asking themselves how much talent he really has?

I honestly think it's because he's not going to the NCAA until the 19/20 season. Not this coming fall....

 

[Joey Bones]

Keep in mind that the ranking don't really mean much until we actually see how the draft unfolds. Kostin was ranked first among Europeans and ended up going 31st. For all the talk about Andersson coming out of nowhere, he was ranked third among European skaters.

Like I've said, anything outside of the top 3 is pretty wide open --- and that was before Tkachuk started gaining upward momentum again.

To be fair, Kostin had a serious shoulder injury that helped his slide. But I agree that rankings are moot. We are not the organization with their own lists per their own scouts.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I honestly think it's because he's not going to the NCAA until the 19/20 season. Not this coming fall....

Is there any clue to what his plan is? He can play in the AHL, right?

 

[Joey Bones]

@Alexei Kovalev 27 I also think that the height controversy is outdated in today's NHL. With that said, I recognize that wasn't your point....

I don't like to value anybody in trade scenarios because it certainly depends on need and value per teams' perspective. Montreal thought they got a steal in Gomez after giving NYR McDonagh. Washington thought they got solid depth from Erat after giving Nashville Forsberg. There are off trades all the time. I find that contemplating where Zucc goes is unnecessary until it actually happens. Only then will analysis of assets coming back will gauge winners/losers of said trade.

My honest opinion. I don't think Zucc gets moved, either, and I don't think he has much value in returning a 1st back in general. Like @Edge mentioned a few pages back, NYR will most likely be wanting NHL ready prospects in return.

 

[Ghost of jas]

So to circle back on this and pick up on something Jas just referenced, I understand now that there are three lottery picks available. We either get one of those three or when things are sorted post-lottery we could be picking even lower than the #8 OA slot. I think that's correct. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If we "won" a Lottery pick and as Jas mentioned it's the #2 OA, we take say Sevenichov(sp) and then trade for another top ten pick. That's pretty much in line with what I've been thinking if I have you right Jas. Gives us two top 10 picks then we see what opportunities come from the Boston and Tampa picks. Maybe try and elevate them into the top twenty or maybe we work some kind of deal that brings back a solid young everyday roster player for one or maybe both picks. Covering any number of scenarios, I see the Rangers doing something with those two late 1st rounders as opposed to letting them sit for BPA. But in this draft that happening would be far from the worst thing in the world if it nothing better could be put together.

Otherwise, we don't win a lottery pick. And we slot in somewhere between 8 - 12 let's say. So we leave that pick in place and make a move to trade for another pick that is hopefully in the top ten and go from there.

In any case draft sounds like Christmas Morning. Just a matter of if you got everything you wanted.

Exactly

 

[Ghost of jas]

@Alexei Kovalev 27 I also think that the height controversy is outdated in today's NHL. With that said, I recognize that wasn't your point....

I don't like to value anybody in trade scenarios because it certainly depends on need and value per teams' perspective. Montreal thought they got a steal in Gomez after giving NYR McDonagh. Washington thought they got solid depth from Erat after giving Nashville Forsberg. There are off trades all the time. I find that contemplating where Zucc goes is unnecessary until it actually happens. Only then will analysis of assets coming back will gauge winners/losers of said trade.

My honest opinion. I don't think Zucc gets moved, either, and I don't think he has much value in returning a 1st back in general. Like @Edge mentioned a few pages back, NYR will most likely be wanting NHL ready prospects in return.

Sorry, Joey, I believe Zuccarello has played his last game as a Ranger. Too many teams looking for secondary scoring, and Gorton has said he’s not done dealing. And in the likelihood of Kovalchuk being signed, and I think it’s wishful thinking that he remains a Ranger.

 

[Edge]

Sorry, Joey, I believe Zuccarello has played his last game as a Ranger. Too many teams looking for secondary scoring, and Gorton has said he’s not done dealing. And in the likelihood of Kovalchuk being signed, and I think it’s wishful thinking that he remains a Ranger.

All indications point to the Rangers not being done, with several discussions potentially set to pick up where they left off at the deadline.

I know when people hear that, they want to think we’re talking about guys they’re somewhat indifferent to, or better yet, guys they WANT to move.

But the reality is that it’s very possible, even likely that the names potentially on their way out are some that we’re attached to.

That’s what makes them attractive to other teams as well. They’re not always going to want our trimmings. They want good cuts of meat.

Rebuilds hurt. Not all the goodbyes are happy ones.

 

[Good Intentions]

 

[Ghost of jas]

All indications point to the Rangers not being done, with several discussions potentially set to pick up where they left off at the deadline.

I know when people hear that, they want to think we’re talking about guys they’re somewhat indifferent to, or better yet, guys they WANT to move.

But the reality is that it’s very possible, even likely that the names potentially on their way out are some that we’re attached to.

That’s what makes them attractive to other teams as well. They’re not always going to want our trimmings. They want good cuts of meat.

Rebuilds hurt. Not all the goodbyes are happy ones.

I thought Brooks’ article about the players unlikely to be dealt was very telling. Zucc was not on the list. We know Brooks has been the mouthpiece for the organization for a while.

 

[Joey Bones]

I like him, can't say I necessarily love him.

I think he's a high probability NHL player, but I'm not convinced the high-end offense is there. Even after his trade, he was better but still didn't strike me as a guy I could see serving as the center of a top line.

Second line? Perhaps. Third line? Definitely.

But in a draft with some enticing talent, it would be hard for me to pass on the guys commonly viewed as being at the very top.

I have him ranked 13th.

Firstly, I don't believe in rankings. Find most lists to be fodder for subscription likes, follow back and what have you. I think that teams have their lists that they value per their own scouting department. I, more so, value players via their own talent and make a range on where I think they should be picked. For example, I think Dahlin is a top 5 talent (even though he'll most likely go No. 1 on draft day). I also think Svechnikov is a top 5 talent (and I also think he could No. 1 on draft day). Zadina is also a top 5 talent, IMO, but on-the-other-hand, isn't on the same level as the aforementioned two players (which then I'd say he could be picked up No. 3-5, but no lower). I hope I made sense of that. I feel it makes more sense to fairly evaluate and assume where a player could end up come draft day.

Anyways, I also think there are higher talented guys available at No. 8, but seeing that Veleno already possesses great edge work and good offensive (and defensive) IQ, how couldn't he have high end offense in his post draft season? I could see him having better offensive numbers than, say, Tkachuk in their first NHL seasons.

What I guess I'm trying to ask is how can a guy pegged as "safe" have more to prove via the way they play? I think this question can be slated for Sean Day, as well, but Veleno and Day are obviously two different players. I just find it interesting that most say they're concerned about his scoring in the pros, when he does all the things right to, indeed, score or create scoring chances right now. If the player does have this high IQ, they would work on those things in the offseason so that it becomes more of a prominent component of their game, right?

I'll use Howden as an example. I think most can say that in his draft year, he showed underwhelming numbers. But, with his IQ, learned to evaluate the rights and wrongs and became a better prospect in the post draft seasons he accumulated.

I wouldn't think Veleno is that much of a concern than compared to others slotted in the 1st round, IMO. I could easily see somebody taking him in the top 10, especially with the lack of forwards projected to go in the top 10, to boot.

 

[Mac n Gs]

All indications point to the Rangers not being done, with several discussions potentially set to pick up where they left off at the deadline.

I know when people hear that, they want to think we’re talking about guys they’re somewhat indifferent to, or better yet, guys they WANT to move.

But the reality is that it’s very possible, even likely that the names potentially on their way out are some that we’re attached to.

That’s what makes them attractive to other teams as well. They’re not always going to want our trimmings. They want good cuts of meat.

Rebuilds hurt. Not all the goodbyes are happy ones.

I wouldn't be surprised if Gorton has some deals still in place. IIRC, Brassard trade was negotiated right about this time two years ago. I think you're onto something with teams on the cusp like Florida who need to take that next step, and adding some pop to their top-6 is a definite must.

 

[Joey Bones]

Liam Kirk's the British guy?

Yes and he's pretty good. I really want to see how he'd play in higher leagues, though. Easy 4th-7th round, IMO.

 

[Joey Bones]

Is there any clue to what his plan is? He can play in the AHL, right?

I don't know, to be honest. I think we all would know more around the combine when official interviews will start getting released.

I don't think he's ready for the AHL just yet. I hope he takes the Euro route, though. Think that'll bode well with his future.

 

[Good Intentions]

I wouldn't be surprised if Gorton has some deals still in place. IIRC, Brassard trade was negotiated right about this time two years ago. I think you're onto something with teams on the cusp like Florida who need to take that next step, and adding some pop to their top-6 is a definite must.

Great point.

 

[Joey Bones]

Sorry, Joey, I believe Zuccarello has played his last game as a Ranger. Too many teams looking for secondary scoring, and Gorton has said he’s not done dealing. And in the likelihood of Kovalchuk being signed, and I think it’s wishful thinking that he remains a Ranger.

Don't apologize, educated opinions are educated opinions, man!!

Nothing is set in stone with Kovalchuk, yet. With that said, Kovalchuk is a sniper that'll need a good playmaker on his off side. Zuccarello would be a fine option there that's already under contract next season. Not to mention that Zucc has said a few times that it's NYR or Europe for him. I think that pulls teams back from signing him let alone trading for him.

I, also, just don't see Zucc going. He has taken home town discount after home town discount and it's not like he's a liability to the team financially. I actually think he deserves a raise for consistency. I think he stays and becomes that mentor figure NYR needs for the younger guys. Same for Kreider, since he's already been doing that with Buch and Lias/Chytil.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I don't know, to be honest. I think we all would know more around the combine when official interviews will start getting released.

I don't think he's ready for the AHL just yet. I hope he takes the Euro route, though. Think that'll bode well with his future.

Yeah, Europe would be an interesting option, depending on where he'd go, but I'd prefer him in college.

 

[Joey Bones]

Yeah, Europe would be an interesting option, depending on where he'd go, but I'd prefer him in college.

I would, too, but next season. Not in two seasons. Think he has nothing to prove in the USHL. Gotta start progressing if he is truly considered this big time player, IMO.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Don't apologize, educated opinions are educated opinions, man!!

Nothing is set in stone with Kovalchuk, yet. With that said, Kovalchuk is a sniper that'll need a good playmaker on his off side. Zuccarello would be a fine option there that's already under contract next season. Not to mention that Zucc has said a few times that it's NYR or Europe for him. I think that pulls teams back from signing him let alone trading for him.

I, also, just don't see Zucc going. He has taken home town discount after home town discount and it's not like he's a liability to the team financially. I actually think he deserves a raise for consistency. I think he stays and becomes that mentor figure NYR needs for the younger guys. Same for Kreider, since he's already been doing that with Buch and Lias/Chytil.

You’re rationalizing.

 

[Joey Bones]

You’re rationalizing.

Well aren't you too, then?

 

[Ghost of jas]

Well aren't you too, then?

I’m taking all of the information out there and making an educated guess. Zuccarello was almost dealt at the deadline. The speculation remains that Gorton has more deals ready to go. Most beat writers expect him to be dealt. Brooks, the organization mouthpiece, writes an article that includes a list of the Rangers not likely to be dealt, and Zuccarello is not on the list. Anyone thinking Zuccarello will be here opening night is doing so emotionally.

 

[Joey Bones]

I’m taking all of the information out there and making an educated guess. Zuccarello was almost dealt at the deadline. The speculation remains that Gorton has more deals ready to go. Most beat writers expect him to be dealt. Brooks, the organization mouthpiece, writes an article that includes a list of the Rangers not likely to be dealt, and Zuccarello is not on the list. Anyone thinking Zuccarello will be here opening night is doing so emotionally.

I was talking about Kovalchuk, but okay....

We're going to differ in opinions on Zucc. Can see that coming now. No, it is not emotional. Thinking logically. I think he is better suited for the Rangers next season because he is the only one that puts up consistent points on the team every year.

Leave the rest for the roster building thread....