Draft and UDFA Thread 2017-18

[Good Intentions]

Literately everyone in the league is one head shot away from being finished

While true, few have had brain injuries that result in being unable to speak properly for weeks.

 

[Good Intentions]

So you reduce Zucc down to his height (incorrectly) and ignore how he’s been a 50-60 point winger for 3 straight years who has a year left at a good AAV? You don’t think that has value?

K.

He may be listed as 5'8 but he's 5'5. Marty St. Louis is 5'3 for that matter. Can count on one hand the number of guys that size that have been durable beyond 30.

I definitely agree he has value, and I'm thankful for all he's done. One of the overachievers, no doubt. But if we can get a late 1st, I'm doing it. My initial reaction was that "mid 1st + something" seems far too much, IMO.

In the end, I believe he'll stay. I also believe Namestnikov stays. Spooner will be the one gone.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

There is no way MSL is 5'3"

 

[Edge]

Okay guys, let's bring it back a bit. At this rate, MSL and Zucc will be 4'9 by dinner time.

Hypothetically speaking, just for fun, what's your ask for Zucc?

 

[Ghost of jas]

Okay guys, let's bring it back a bit. At this rate, MSL and Zucc will be 4'9 by dinner time.

Hypothetically speaking, just for fun, what's your ask for Zucc?

I think you use Zucc and a late 1st to get, say the Oilers pick and a B prospect or a 2nd.

 

[eco's bones]

I would with the RHDs that could potentially be on the board.

A lot for me would depend on who we took at 8 because at least one of our 1st rounders should be a defenseman. If we take Bouchard, Dobson or Hughes there---Lundestrom being around at 26 would be a really good addition. To me he's a guy you start to seriously consider around 20--so he'd be falling a bit. If he's around at 29-30-31 I'd definitely take him there unless there were other fallers too.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Okay guys, let's bring it back a bit. At this rate, MSL and Zucc will be 4'9 by dinner time.

Hypothetically speaking, just for fun, what's your ask for Zucc?

If it’s a first + prospect, I might be in the minority here, but I want a 2019 first

 

[Pizza]

It's not unrealistic. Shatty rental got #1, #2 and a B- prospect. Nash rental got #1, #7, a B prospect and a middle-6 forward worth at least a second rounder if we dealt him away now. MZA is a better prospect, would play the whole year for the team and we can eat 50% of his salary. We should be able to get 2 firsts from a good team (2018 and 2019) and a B prospect. That would give us 4 first rounders this year and likely 3 firsts next year (I think Tampa is likely to make the SCF at least once in 2018 or 2019). That would be 9 first rounders in 3 years, including Lias and Chytil. Add the emergence of UDFAs Pionk, Geo and Vinni as legit prospects. Plus the acquisition of Howden, Hajek, Rykov, Lindgren, Bigras. Then there are old prospects: Shesterkin, Nieves, Fontaine, Crawley, Day, Ronning, Barron, whoever is the B prospect we get for MZA, etc. And the 4 picks we will have in the second and third rounds this year.

That's about 15 really good prospects (worth a first round pick or more) plus at least another dozen with a realistic possibility NHL future. Maybe the best farm in the league.

Alternatively, we could do MZA at 50% to Tampa for Raddysh and Foote. They have Kunitz and Sustr coming off the books, so they can easily fit MZA at 50%. Lias, Chytil, 5 more first rounders, 3 more seconds, 3 more thirds, Shesterkin, Geo, Huska, Pionk, Foote, Hajek, Rykov, Lindgren, Bigras, Crawley, Day, Howden, Raddysh, Nieves, Fontaine, Ronning, Barron, Lettieri... wow. Over 30 legit prospects.

So to circle back on this and pick up on something Jas just referenced, I understand now that there are three lottery picks available. We either get one of those three or when things are sorted post-lottery we could be picking even lower than the #8 OA slot. I think that's correct. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If we "won" a Lottery pick and as Jas mentioned it's the #2 OA, we take say Sevenichov(sp) and then trade for another top ten pick. That's pretty much in line with what I've been thinking if I have you right Jas. Gives us two top 10 picks then we see what opportunities come from the Boston and Tampa picks. Maybe try and elevate them into the top twenty or maybe we work some kind of deal that brings back a solid young everyday roster player for one or maybe both picks. Covering any number of scenarios, I see the Rangers doing something with those two late 1st rounders as opposed to letting them sit for BPA. But in this draft that happening would be far from the worst thing in the world if it nothing better could be put together.

Otherwise, we don't win a lottery pick. And we slot in somewhere between 8 - 12 let's say. So we leave that pick in place and make a move to trade for another pick that is hopefully in the top ten and go from there.

In any case draft sounds like Christmas Morning. Just a matter of if you got everything you wanted.

 

[eco's bones]

The thing with valuing Zuccarello is he's only got a year left before free agency. If I were Edmonton I'd want some kind of commitment from him or something more from the Rangers than a late round 1st pick for the 9OA. They can turn around and trade him at next year's deadline though and probably pick up a later 1st in next year's draft and get most of a year out of him....so maybe Chiarelli would go for it.

 

[Edge]

If it’s a first + prospect, I might be in the minority here, but I want a 2019 first

I'm with you. I'd rather spread things out a little.

The trade would ensure we would have two first rounds next year, potentially three. It would also result in us having at least 2 first round picks in 3 consecutive drafts, and potentially as many as 8 first rounds in 3 years.

That would be on top of what essentially amounts to having a first and two seconds from 2016.

 

[Good Intentions]

Okay guys, let's bring it back a bit. At this rate, MSL and Zucc will be 4'9 by dinner time.

Hypothetically speaking, just for fun, what's your ask for Zucc?

A. As I stated, would accept any 2018 1st rounder.
B. I like the suggestion of a 2019 1st. Certainly would accept that.
C. A high-upside forward prospect (unlikely scenario)

As I also mentioned, would be curious to know if Lundqvist makes any bid for his friend #36 staying. Is there a leadership angle? I would think so. Is it a conversation that will be had? I'm not sure.

 

[Good Intentions]

5'5" at 38 got Tampa Bay 2 first rounders.

Point well taken. Not a knock, but Zucc isn't MSL; and as I said, we can count on one hand the number of those guys thrive 30+

If you can get a first. Grab and run.

 

[Edge]

The thing with valuing Zuccarello is he's only got a year left before free agency. If I were Edmonton I'd want some kind of commitment from him or something more from the Rangers than a late round 1st pick for the 9OA. They can turn around and trade him at next year's deadline though and probably pick up a later 1st in next year's draft and get most of a year out of him....so maybe Chiarelli would go for it.

While I prefer a 2019 pick, I would be thrilled to land Edmonton's pick in a deal. Having said that, I don't see the Oilers doing it for only a year of Zucc. That's why I've always thought Zucc's most likely destination would be a team that's potentially on the cusp of getting into the mix --- perhaps Florida, Dallas, or Calgary,or even someone like Anaheim. I think if AV goes to Dallas, it's a distinct possibility that the Rangers focus on that destination.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I'm with you. I'd rather spread things out a little.

The trade would ensure we would have two first rounds next year, potentially three. It would also result in us having at least 2 first round picks in 3 consecutive drafts, and potentially as many as 8 first rounds in 3 years.

That would be on top of what essentially amounts to having a first and two seconds from 2016.

The question is which is worth more- the known quantity of a potential mid-teen pick in this draft, or a potential late 1st next year?

 

[McRanger]

While I prefer a 2019 pick, I would be thrilled to land Edmonton's pick in a deal. Having said that, I don't see the Oilers doing it for only a year of Zucc. That's why I've always thought Zucc's most likely destination would be a team that's potentially on the cusp of getting into the mix --- perhaps Florida, Dallas, or Calgary,or even someone like Anaheim. I think if AV goes to Dallas, it's a distinct possibility that the Rangers focus on that destination.

A contender or a team on the cusp is the most likely.

Though I wouldn't count out a GM on the hot seat that desperately wants to make the playoffs.

 

[eco's bones]

While I prefer a 2019 pick, I would be thrilled to land Edmonton's pick in a deal. Having said that, I don't see the Oilers doing it for only a year of Zucc. That's why I've always thought Zucc's most likely destination would be a team that's potentially on the cusp of getting into the mix --- perhaps Florida, Dallas, or Calgary,or even someone like Anaheim. I think if AV goes to Dallas, it's a distinct possibility that the Rangers focus on that destination.

On Zucc and a late 1st to the Oilers things---barring injuries the Oilers I would expect could at least get another 1st for Zucc at next year's deadline--maybe even a little more. Maybe Zucc in the meantime works some magic with McDavid and they re-sign him instead. I don't necessarily think that would be a horrible deal for them to do.

Nor is it a bad idea for the Rangers to hang on to Zucc for now. I wouldn't be against re-signing him short term more or less for the same cap $'s he's making now or barring that we could shop him at next year's deadline for a 1st and maybe a little more.

Speaking of Edmonton's 9OA--there is no guarantee that they're going to be that high next year. They might be in the 20's for all we know. When you can get a top 10 or top 15 pick in a good draft year you need to go for it and not worry about whatever other picks you have that year.

 

[eco's bones]

A contender or a team on the cusp is the most likely.

Though I wouldn't count out a GM on the hot seat that desperately wants to make the playoffs.

I don't think Chicago would be able to fit Zuccarello. But that's going to be the most desperate team IMO. Their owner has given Bowman and Quenneville a 1 year reprieve. They don't make the playoffs next year for the second year in a row---I expect they'll be looking for new jobs.

 

[Edge]

The question is which is worth more- the known quantity of a potential mid-teen pick in this draft, or a potential late 1st next year?

Probably depends on the team and the other components of the deal.

I'm assuming the most interest in Zucc would come from teams who are on the cusp of taking a step forward. As such, they would probably prefer to keep what they perceive to be the higher pick (this year). But I'm also interested in the type of young player they might offer up. It's possible the Rangers would like the young player more than the earlier and higher pick.

 

[Edge]

On Zucc and a late 1st to the Oilers things---barring injuries the Oilers I would expect could at least get another 1st for Zucc at next year's deadline--maybe even a little more. Maybe Zucc in the meantime works some magic with McDavid and they re-sign him instead. I don't necessarily think that would be a horrible deal for them to do.

Nor is it a bad idea for the Rangers to hang on to Zucc for now. I wouldn't be against re-signing him short term more or less for the same cap $'s he's making now or barring that we could shop him at next year's deadline for a 1st and maybe a little more.

Speaking of Edmonton's 9OA--there is no guarantee that they're going to be that high next year. They might be in the 20's for all we know. When you can get a top 10 or top 15 pick in a good draft year you need to go for it and not worry about whatever other picks you have that year.

Make no mistake, I'd love to land Edmonton's pick --- especially in this draft. I'd love to come away with some combination of a group consisting of Hughes, Boqvist, Dobson, Bouchard, Wahlstrom, Farabee or Tkachuk. Because some combination of all of them would be available if we stay at 8 and 9.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Yeah unless we're adding to Zucc to get into the top 10 I'd rather take the 2019 pick as well.

You can probably get something along with that pick since its a year away.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

He may be listed as 5'8 but he's 5'5. Marty St. Louis is 5'3 for that matter. Can count on one hand the number of guys that size that have been durable beyond 30.

I definitely agree he has value, and I'm thankful for all he's done. One of the overachievers, no doubt. But if we can get a late 1st, I'm doing it. My initial reaction was that "mid 1st + something" seems far too much, IMO.

In the end, I believe he'll stay. I also believe Namestnikov stays. Spooner will be the one gone.

MSL is 5'8"

Martin St-Louis

You are just making yourself look lika a fool, trying to win arguments by changing numbers that are easily accessible.

Unless St. Louis went from 5'8" to 5'3" since he quit playing hockey. Not even my grandma shrank that much in 3 years.

 

[Beacon]

Hypothetically speaking, just for fun, what's your ask for Zucc?

1. Raddysh+Foote for MZA@50%

OR

2. 2018 #1, 2019 #1 prospect from a good team whose picks are in the 20s

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Kaut is almost 1 yr older than Chytl.

I know Kaut’s almost a year older in his draft season but the numbers are really impressive. Also when the two have played together at the international level Kaut did outproduce Chytil (although Zadina did help out his production).

 

[Ola]

A poor u18 could absolutely cause that to happen.

However, a really good one could push him into the top 10.

Wilde shouldn’t have a poor U18, US is strong. Many players are unavailable for Canada. Wilde is comfortable on that team. Don’t see him dropping past 20-25.

 

[Phoicon]

I know Kaut’s almost a year older in his draft season but the numbers are really impressive. Also when the two have played together at the international level Kaut did outproduce Chytil (although Zadina did help out his production).

The year in difference is huge. Around the age Kaut will be drafted is when Chytil showed he belongs in the NHL. However, there is another key point of...

Vastly different responsibilities. The entire Chezch team was built around having one scoring line and 3 "dump-the-puck deep and defend" lines.

If you watched the WJC you would have seen Chytil do a lot of board work and lot of dumping the puck in - not a lot of puck carrying he did in the AHL. Pretty apparent he was following a game plan that did not focus on his scoring and stickhandling abilities. Why did the coaching staff use him that way? Perhaps to spread the talent around - perhaps because Necas could not do that. I don´t know...

Anyhow, Chytil is one level above Kaut in terms of potential. Even a bit beyond Necac and around Zedina. Still, Kaut would be a good get late in the first round.