Draft and UDFA Thread 2017-18

Discussion in 'New York Rangers' started by Pavel Buchnevich, Jun 25, 2017.

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  1. jas

    jas Unsatisfied

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    Fair enough. I’ll end it on this point. Much like the case with McDonagh, it appears Gorton is not looking to keep Zuccarello long term. While having a winger to play with Kovalchuk in the manner you suggests make sense for contending team, I think Kovalchuk is being brought in more for the influence he’ll have with the young Russians, most notably Buchnevich, who I see likely to fill the role you’re describing for Zuccarello.

    Besides, Zucc to Dallas, LA or Florida likely means another 1st rounder to discuss...or more ammunition to add another top ten pick.

    :naughty:
     
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  2. Trxjw

    Trxjw Retired.

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    Another guy to go into the "Rangers probably saw him quite a bit" ring: Milos Roman. I could see him sneaking into that late 1st grouping and playing on Giants with Ronning may have earned him a couple extra visits from our scouts.
     
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  3. eco's bones

    eco's bones Registered User

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    Kovalchuk is a shooter and Zuccarello is a playmaker. I don't see why Kovalchuk being signed would necessarily mean Zuccarello gets traded and I'd be interested to see how they might work with each other. Going forward with Zucc--if he wants to stay with the Rangers bad enough--and I think he does he'll be willing to take a short term (2-3) year contract. Pay him what he's making now or give him a small raise---I think that's fair for his production. Those two together on the powerplay should be really good. Kovalchuk has a tremendous shot and Zuccarello is a great passer. They seem tailor made for each other to me.
     
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  4. broadwayblue

    broadwayblue Registered User

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    I think a lot of us love Zucc. But he is at his peak or on his way down, while still on a value contract for another year. I wouldn't move him for a crappy return, but if I can get a mid to late 1st he's being dealt. It's all about asset management.
     
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  5. Edge

    Edge Kris King's Ghost

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    For me, the rankings are more to give some sense of order to things, but they aren’t the end all be all. For example, the difference between 4 and 10 could be fairly small, or a matter of preference. Meanwhile, the difference between 11 and 13 could be significant. I merely used it because people like to see where I have players in relation to one another.

    With regards to Veleno, I think he’s an interesting case because of how many times we’ve had a chance to see him over the years. This isn’t a kid with a single junior season under his belt. In this case he has 216 some odd junior games under his belt and 191 points, in the Q no less. So we have a lot more mileage under the hood, in some cases two or even three times as many games as some of the other options. For me, thus far, a very clear picture has emerged. He’s a smart player, but not necessarily a dynamic offensive player.

    The fact of the matter is that there are very few, if any, high scoring NHL centers who have produced at the same pace through 200 junior games. I can’t really think of any off the top of my head, and if we did manage to it together a list, the names would be few and far between.

    That’s not meant as an insult toward Veleno, I’ve just seen enough kids over the last 25 years that I feel the odds of him suddenly turning into higher end scorer at the NHL level is pretty slim. If anything, I’ve seen far more examples of projections over-favoring kids who are good at multiple areas other than top end offense. People tend to like those players, they’re easy to root. There’s a lot to like in the overall game, so we tend to give them the benefit of the doubt on offense.

    You cited Howden as an example, but I think there are some key differences to note. For example, people didn’t really debate Howden as a top 10 pick. Most observers had him slated for the 24-30 range.

    Second, Howden has played roughly the equivalent of an entire season less before he was drafted. I’d also argue that his offense progress was more pronounced, though certainly not spectacular.

    But Howden has also shown a knack for being a guy who lifts his linemates and teams in a variety of situations. So his rise is about more than what he’s shown in Moose Jaw.

    So that begs the question, could Veleno get to that point? Maybe. Would I want to bank on that over some of the other guys in the top of the draft? No, not particularly. But that doesn’t mean I think he’s incapable of bringing some good production. I just think there are a dozen or so guys whose combination would be more appealing if they were sitting on the board along with Veleno.
     
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  6. Joey Bones

    Joey Bones ***** 2k16 Sponsor

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    All hypothetical until then. Both of our opinions.
     
  7. Pavel Buchnevich

    Pavel Buchnevich AV AND GORTON OUT

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    Why would he fall to the late first/early second?
     
  8. Pavel Buchnevich

    Pavel Buchnevich AV AND GORTON OUT

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    Is it? A lot of players in the first round will bust.

    Lets say he busts, which I don't think he will, but he could. There will also be "safe" picks who bust, if you go by what usually happens with the draft.
     
  9. Bozle

    Bozle Showtime, baby

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    **** happens in the draft, man. You never know.
     
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  10. Joey Bones

    Joey Bones ***** 2k16 Sponsor

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    Good notes. I'm with with you in regards to other talent that NYR should get before him. But I think he, like Howden, are players that do carry their teams. Howden with Moose Jaw and Veleno with Drummondville. No matter how long he's been in the Q for, he's still freshly 18 years old. He's above PPG in that regard and has shown some grit to his game, which in playoff hockey most would think is essential. People might pass up on a potentially grittier version of Brassard with Veleno. I think he could put the scoring touch together. Time will tell of course. Good debate!
     
  11. Joey Bones

    Joey Bones ***** 2k16 Sponsor

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    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Ola

    Ola Registered User Sponsor

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    Yeah, anyone got a word on his contract situation? He isn't far from being able to play right away.
     
  13. Amazing Kreiderman

    Amazing Kreiderman @StatBoy_Steven Sponsor

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    Farabee can play in the AHL. The 20yo-rule only applies to Canadian major juniors
     
  14. Amazing Kreiderman

    Amazing Kreiderman @StatBoy_Steven Sponsor

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    Kravtsov is a guy I'd pick at 8
     
  15. Ola

    Ola Registered User Sponsor

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    Austen Matthews move to Europe certainly didn't hurt him. Really gutsy move BTW. Anyway it doesn't seem to becoming a trend.

    The AHL is an OK league, but its far from optimal to develop kids in. A few reasons are:
    1. With all NHL teams looking to add more skill and speed, there is right now an overweight of good grinders and defensive players in the AHL.
    2. Playing a fast skilled game requires a lot of training and chemistry. There is a heck of a turnover of players on the AHL roster. The AHL coaches just don't get enough time to build on the puck game.
    3. Traditionally the AHL is a very very N-S hockey league. It takes time to change traditions. Many coaches are former AHLers, its not a vet heavy league but there is still a sizable core in place of vets used to playing that N-S style. To some extent, its in the walls.
    4. The AHL is a very dangerous league compared to today's NHL. The NHL has become very streamlined and isn't at all as physical as it used to be. The AHL can't be compared to the good ol days, but its a heck of a lot more common that you see guys skating around in the AHL looking for scalps than its in the NHL right now. This increases the injury risk, but its maybe not a biggie. BUT, it also disrupts the play a lot and turns the game into more or a N-S style game. The don't get caught with your head down risk is much more real in the AHL than the NHL. The more real that risk is, the less creative a player can be.
    5. The schedule and travel is tough in the AHL. Many teams have started to take that into account with kids sitting them one of three games.

    From my POV the AHL should be a place were a player -- with a developed game in place -- adopt to the pro hockey and keep working on that game. The AHL is the best in the world for that. But it should -- not -- be a place were you put a kid to find his game, develop his game.

    Even if someone like Farabee is very responsible and skilled and could help a team at any level in many areas -- I would definitely fear that his game to a too big extent would be about pressuring the puck and supporting his teammates in the AHL, and that he wouldn't get involved enough with the puck and with ice and time. You need to be patient with these kids. I would much rather see Farabee in a little slower league in Europe, like the SHL/SM-liigaa/Swiss league or any of them, playing more of a creative thoughtful puck game. Getting new influences. Not risking being punished for holding on to the puck to the same extent, and getting an opportunity to play with teammates playing that style too. Then after one year in Europe the AHL is probably perfect for him. But the AHL for a kid aged 18 without a really developed offensive game? Nah, not sold on that.
     
  16. Mac n Gs

    Mac n Gs Gorton plz

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    @Steve Kournianos made some great points last night on twitter re: Brady Tkachuk. I’ll post here in a few, but if you don’t follow him yet, you definitely should for prospect clips, analysis, etc.
     
  17. GeorgeKaplan

    GeorgeKaplan Registered User

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    I guess, I feel like some of the arguments he made for Tkachuk were lacking context and omitting things to make him look better, but that may be my feelings getting in the way
     
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  18. Rangers743

    Rangers743 Yare Yare Daze

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    I know a lot is made about Merkley's attitude issues and how he's weak in other areas of his game but those numbers certainly are eye popping. He seems to be worth the risk at one of the later picks
     
  19. Pavel Buchnevich

    Pavel Buchnevich AV AND GORTON OUT

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    One more season after this one. Same as Shestyorkin and Rykov.
     
  20. eco's bones

    eco's bones Registered User

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    I wouldn't. Not at 8 anyway. I see him somewhere in the teens. He's a guy I'd think about moving up for but no way at 8.
     
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  21. Pizza

    Pizza Registered User

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    Assume we don't win a Lottery Pick and we want to add another 1st round pick.

    Who are some teams and scenarios where we could do that?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  22. Pavel Buchnevich

    Pavel Buchnevich AV AND GORTON OUT

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    I don't even necessarily see this as a risk thing. I don't think he's a first round talent. He'll score a lot of points, but give away just as many defensively. And then he has attitude issues. Unless you are Shatty level with the points, not just an OFD who can put up points, you are a marginal NHL'er with that skill-set. Gonna need to be 40+ per season consistently. And the attitude issues make it worse for a player who already has major question marks whether he can be an impact NHL'er.
     
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  23. Rangers743

    Rangers743 Yare Yare Daze

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    Dallas or Florida could use some depth scoring. Maybe Zuc to one of them for their first
     
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  24. Edge

    Edge Kris King's Ghost

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    Ironically, the people I've talked to rarely mention the attitude. They do express concerns about the defense. However, I think most teams will find he gets easier to justify towards the back of the first round.
     
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  25. Mac n Gs

    Mac n Gs Gorton plz

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    I’m still not convinced what he does in the OHL will translate to actual NHL offense. Half this **** he does doesn’t work against better players in rigid systems and he’s so ****ing bad defensively. Ryan Murphy 2.0
     
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