Salary Cap: Dr StrangeDubas: "Defense sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh... I do not avoid defense, Sully."

[Deport Ogie]

Pysyk is a solid get pending injury recovery, definitely the kind of swing you should make on a PTO.

Hajek and Wagner are probably less so but honestly they are moves that hurt no one at this point. Sometimes you see GM's do this kind of thing just to establish good juju with agents. Even if there's little chance for guys to catch on here after the PTO you get them in camp and a few preseason games and get them playing in front of eyeballs and maybe someone somewhere likes what they see.

Just for the heck of it I looked up the agents for Pysyk and Hajek. Same guy, Craig Oster. Also clients are Erik Karlsson, Tristan Jarry, Lars Eller.

 

[tom_servo]

I just like the NFL model better. It should be selective.

And yes to the other posters, there are worse players than Recchi in but he is always the first to come in mind for me.

The Pro Football of Fame currently has 362 members. The Hockey Hall of Fame has 293 members (both numbers as of last year).

Granted, the NFL had around 3 times as many players in its history. But many of that total are backups/reserves who rarely see the field, or specialist positions which all but rule out HoF consideration.

Of course there are debates around undeserving Football HoFers as well. I think their standard is a little higher relatively but not by much. Longevity/team success seems to count for more.

 

[PensandCaps]

I like the Wagner PTO. Saw him play a lot with the Kings. Hopefully he still has his great speed, i thought he was a pretty decent 4th liner in LA.

 

[Gurglesons]

I like the Wagner PTO. Saw him play a lot with the Kings. Hopefully he still has his great speed, i thought he was a pretty decent 4th liner in LA.

Yeah, I liked him a lot in LA. No hands, but Tyler Motte type who could I think surprise a lot of people.

Shouldn't be a lock for the roster, but I'd prefer him in a bottom six role over Hinostroza and Johnsson.

 

[SEALBound]

I'm not too hopeful for any of the PTOs. Pysyk is the most interesting but with the others we have under contract, I don't see the point. I'd 10000%x spend the extraordinarily limit space on a high potential forward.

Our bottom 6 isn't good enough

 

[PensandCaps]

Yeah, I liked him a lot in LA. No hands, but Tyler Motte type who could I think surprise a lot of people.

Shouldn't be a lock for the roster, but I'd prefer him in a bottom six role over Hinostroza and Johnsson.

Eh, they've been fairly more productive in those type of roles.

Unless Wagner goes back to his 1st year production.

 

[Freeptop]

He has but he's only getting those minutes on bad teams, though. Every team that he has played significant minutes on missed the playoffs.

Have them swap teams and I don't think Pysyk would have been playing any more than Ruhwedel has played for the Penguins. I'd rather play Pysyk due to his size but I think both are pretty similar: analytics darling #6D.

The funny thing with this is that Ruhwedel played for the Sabres and their AHL affiliate from the 2012/2013 season until the 2015/2016 season, which also happens to be same period of time that Pysyk played for them.

Ruhwedel played a grand total of 33 games in the NHL for them, 21 of which all came in the 13/14 season.
Pysyk played in 44 games in the NHL with the Sabres... in the 13/14 season alone. (125 games in the NHL in total over his time with the Sabres).

 

[Peat]

The thing about Wagner isn't that he's comically bad or anything.

It's that he's a very known quantity. What does bringing him on a PTO really accomplish? You want him on the roster, sure, but why not just give him a contract?

To have him on a PTO implies a lack of belief that suggests something else is going on.

Maybe those are famous last words and he gets signed and does well. Fast hard-working players with a bit of size are always welcome here. But some PTOs are just about getting a roster through pre-season, and that's what this smells like to me.

 

[SomeDude]

The thing about Wagner isn't that he's comically bad or anything.

It's that he's a very known quantity. What does bringing him on a PTO really accomplish? You want him on the roster, sure, but why not just give him a contract?

To have him on a PTO implies a lack of belief that suggests something else is going on.

Maybe those are famous last words and he gets signed and does well. Fast hard-working players with a bit of size are always welcome here. But some PTOs are just about getting a roster through pre-season, and that's what this smells like to me.

I ask the same question when teams give players PTOs who played for them the year before. Like Harrington in Anaheim. You know the player. Sign him or don’t.

Although some of the time it’s just a precursor to signing an AHL deal. Maybe the player thinks they’re above a ML deal and the team says they’ll bring them to camp and see if they can make it, if not, down to ride the buses.

 

[Empoleon8771]

But I am a lot more impressed by Pysyk reaching analytics darling status on bad teams playing good players than I am Ruhwedel reaching it on good teams playing bad players. To me, that says "better player" very loudly.

And if Psysk is indeed better, he can have a bigger impact for the Penguins while still playing the exact same minutes time wise by taking on harder deployments to free up Karlsson and Letang to go bullying.

Pysyk had tougher usage than Ruhwedel but I don't think it's on the level of Ruhwedel playing against "bad" players while he was playing against "good" players.

In Pysyk's years on defense, he's usually playing against average competition based on QoC numbers from Dobber Hockey. Ruhwedel is playing against below average competition, but it's not a major difference like comparing say Friedman's 2021-2022 or Riikola's 2019-2020 usage to Pysyk. Ruhwedel puts up good results playing against bottom-6 competition, while Pysyk put up good results playing against middle-6 competition.

I think I underrated Pysyk a bit, but he's still only a bottom pair defenseman on a good team IMO. He's a #5 that can give good analytics playing 17 minutes a night, while Ruhwedel is a #6 that can give good analytics playing 15 minutes a night.

 

[SomeDude]

Chad Ruhwedel sucks. If you cannot see that from watching him play, I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

The thing about Wagner isn't that he's comically bad or anything.

It's that he's a very known quantity. What does bringing him on a PTO really accomplish? You want him on the roster, sure, but why not just give him a contract?

To have him on a PTO implies a lack of belief that suggests something else is going on.

Maybe those are famous last words and he gets signed and does well. Fast hard-working players with a bit of size are always welcome here. But some PTOs are just about getting a roster through pre-season, and that's what this smells like to me.

I think a lot of times it’s about doing the agent for the PTO’d player a solid. Tough to tell if that’s the case with Wagner but def looks that way for Hajek/Pysyk (same agent as EK65).

 

[Peat]

Pysyk had tougher usage than Ruhwedel but I don't think it's on the level of Ruhwedel playing against "bad" players while he was playing against "good" players.

In Pysyk's years on defense, he's usually playing against average competition based on QoC numbers from Dobber Hockey. Ruhwedel is playing against below average competition, but it's not a major difference like comparing say Friedman's 2021-2022 or Riikola's 2019-2020 usage to Pysyk. Ruhwedel puts up good results playing against bottom-6 competition, while Pysyk put up good results playing against middle-6 competition.

I think I underrated Pysyk a bit, but he's still only a bottom pair defenseman on a good team IMO. He's a #5 that can give good analytics playing 17 minutes a night, while Ruhwedel is a #6 that can give good analytics playing 15 minutes a night.

I will go with the bolded and use that as grounds for preferring Pysyk and thinking he's a step beyond a Ruhwedel.

I'd add that on a good team, Ruhwedel isn't playing nightly. I think that's another way of expressing the difference. Pysyk as 3RD on a good team is fine. Ruhwedel as 4RD on a good team is fine.

I think a lot of times it’s about doing the agent for the PTO’d player a solid. Tough to tell if that’s the case with Wagner but def looks that way for Hajek/Pysyk (same agent as EK65).

Can believe that too (although given Wagner's agent represents 8 guys where Tanner Jeannot is the most high profile guy, there's no obvious reason to do said solid).

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Can believe that too (although given Wagner's agent represents 8 guys where Tanner Jeannot is the most high profile guy, there's no obvious reason to do said solid).

Yeah the list is quite short but hard to know where we’re from. (Good) Agents are always working these team guys even when their guys aren’t hitting UFA. Maybe Dubas/a lieutenant of Dubas owes the agent one for keeping him in the loop on a trade or a favor. But who knows.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I will go with the bolded and use that as grounds for preferring Pysyk and thinking he's a step beyond a Ruhwedel.

I'd add that on a good team, Ruhwedel isn't playing nightly. I think that's another way of expressing the difference. Pysyk as 3RD on a good team is fine. Ruhwedel as 4RD on a good team is fine.



Can believe that too (although given Wagner's agent represents 8 guys where Tanner Jeannot is the most high profile guy, there's no obvious reason to do said solid).

Oh I don't disagree with this at all. I think we agree here, I was just thinking you thought there was a larger difference between Pysyk and Ruhwedel than I thought.

 

[Peat]

Yeah the list is quite short but hard to know where we’re from. (Good) Agents are always working these team guys even when their guys aren’t hitting UFA. Maybe Dubas/a lieutenant of Dubas owes the agent one for keeping him in the loop on a trade or a favor. But who knows.

Truth.

Although we might be overthinking it given Wagner's profile and the players Sully/Dubas have been targeting this summer. It's like wondering why the fat man walked out of the joint with a bucket full of fried chicken. Was there a coupon? Is he throwing a party? No, he just really likes fried chicken.

 

[Gurglesons]

The thing about Wagner isn't that he's comically bad or anything.

It's that he's a very known quantity. What does bringing him on a PTO really accomplish? You want him on the roster, sure, but why not just give him a contract?

To have him on a PTO implies a lack of belief that suggests something else is going on.

Maybe those are famous last words and he gets signed and does well. Fast hard-working players with a bit of size are always welcome here. But some PTOs are just about getting a roster through pre-season, and that's what this smells like to me.

He doesn't take up a contract spot if we don't like him.

 

[Peat]

He doesn't take up a contract spot if we don't like him.

Tad skeptical they're that on the fence

 

[The Old Master]

Pysyk is basically just Ruhwedel but not crazy small. If he is good after his Achilles injury, that would be a nice replacement for Ruhwedel. I’m pretty skeptical that will be the case, though.

it could easily take another year for him to recover. Imo

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

I really liked Libor Hajek in his draft year and thought he'd amount to much more than he has.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Yeah, I liked him a lot in LA. No hands, but Tyler Motte type who could I think surprise a lot of people.

Shouldn't be a lock for the roster, but I'd prefer him in a bottom six role over Hinostroza and Johnsson.

Think Johnsson is more of a middle 6 guy that they are seeing if he is past his injury issues.

He's more of a guy you will see play up on L2 of all our tweener guys. He's been ok in top 6 at times in both Toronto and NJ. He will likely been one of the first to get a look if any injuries to out top 6.

All things considered and if healthy IMO he's a tier up from Hinostroza

 

[3ladesof5teel]

it could easily take another year for him to recover. Imo

Achilles are tough, sometimes players never recover and ends careers.

Look what happened to Pacioretty, went to one of the best Docs in the world in Finland and a boom. Torn again.

 

[Gurglesons]

Think Johnsson is more of a middle 6 guy that they are seeing if he is past his injury issues.

He's more of a guy you will see play up on L2 of all our tweener guys. He's been ok in top 6 at times in both Toronto and NJ. He will likely been one of the first to get a look if any injuries to out top 6.

All things considered and if healthy IMO he's a tier up from Hinostroza

Johnsson ain't shit. Dude scored 20 because he overshot his projections in one season. He is a slower, worse version of Kapanen.

Top six options should be DOC, Puusy and Poulin.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Johnsson ain't shit. Dude scored 20 because he overshot his projections in one season. He is a slower, worse version of Kapanen.

Top six options should be DOC, Puusy and Poulin.

Puusy ain't shit the SM Liiga produces very very few NHL players and he's definitely not a standout. Just a product of an extremely weak AHL team, but as I said the team went and grabbed Johnsson to see if he still has anything. He's one of the more skilled guys that we brought in. They view him as a cheap potential that could still pan out and low risk. I am not thrilled with our middle 6 depth. No one should be.

I don't think him and Kapanen are anything comparable. Kapanen will do just fine outside this organization in the correct role.

Poulin likely still needs some more time from his time off. I think he's still a year away but there's hope and I like his game.

 

[Peat]

Pretty much everyone we're thinking of putting in the top six in case of emergency ain't shit. It's about whoever the surprise is here.