News Article: Downtown Arena possible

[Relapsing]

Ok, so first, you need a flow chart to determine your specific scenario, do you use TOU or Tiered pricing with Ottawa Hydro. Then, you gotta take into account if the specific person has a solar panel array....

Alright chatGPT, we're going to build a new dataset...

 

[starling]

Funny how people find it acceptable getting swindled for $25-40 for parking at CTC where there are NO other options, but somehow downtown becomes a problem even though there will be tons of competition within walking distance and a train pretty much to the gate.

No, you won't be paying more than you are already paying in Kanata, even if you drive.

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

Funny how people find it acceptable getting swindled for $25-40 for parking at CTC where there are NO other options, but somehow downtown becomes a problem even though there will be tons of competition within walking distance and a train pretty much to the gate.

No, you won't be paying more than you are already paying in Kanata, even if you drive.

Just having easy access to taxis and Uber at CTC would dramatically improve my experience. Get dropped off, paid ride home.

At whatever downtown site there should be lots of options.

 

[mysens]

Lol. You really asking this question?

I'm gonna take a flyer and say that for 99% of the people on this board, a lambo is a ridiculous ride that's pure status symbol. A luxury most would never be able to afford. And while they look and sound cool, an absolute impracticle car that screams "I have money, ego and a small dick and I'm flaunting all of it"

Oh you’re one of those. How pathetic it is to associate an exotic vehicle or a car or luxury for that matter that you’re not able to afford that they have a small dick. Just plain sad

 

[HoweHullOrr]

So one scenario, out of many options.

I had free parking when I was there, but a lot of STH will lose that perk when, downtown.

You quoted one scenario as well, no?

Probably going to be a lot of two people instances of going to games as well, like husband/wife (& spousal equivalents e.g., boyfriend/girlfriend), father/son, brothers/sisters, etc. Wouldn’t think that would be rare or anything along those lines.

Lol. Next time I'll be sure to break down every possible scenario in my reply, along with the one that was specifically posed. I'll also make a chart showing variable parking fees depending on the number of occupants in a vehicle.

How many people can you cram into a trunk?

The gotcha is just so compelling for some people though.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I hope they mirror the red blacks/soccer ticket perk, it's genius. Free transit within x minutes of game start and end with your ticket

Reminds me of the LRT system in Calgary back some years ago. You could ride from one stop to another in downtown for free.

 

[Relapsing]

Oh you’re one of those. How pathetic it is to associate an exotic vehicle or a car or luxury for that matter that you’re not able to afford that they have a small dick. Just plain sad

So I noticed you didn't dispute the ego comment...

Those Uru's you casually brought up are $275k+. Over a quarter of a million CAD for a single vehicle. And that's on the cheap end of vehicles you're referenced being at games.

Those are a hell of a status symbol to differentiate yourself from the rest of the poors, and a very expensive way to let the rest of the world know you're compensating for something missing in your life. Probably the other half of your dick. Or that you're an idiot that thinks wasting that kind of money on a declining asset is cool.

To think that bemoaning a lack of parking spaces for the rich to park their impractical exotic cars in the winter in Canada is a relatable talking point for most people is so god damn funny to me. It's so out of touch with where most Canadians, and most Sens Fans, are.

Even if I could afford something like that, there are 100 other ways I'd consider spending that money. Buying a luxury vehicle like a Bentley or a Rolls Royce is juuuuust above burning a pile of money in my backyard for fun.

So yeah, I guess I am one of those people. And I'm very OK with that.

 

[ottawah]

.... How much do you think transit is in this city?

Fare for two people, both ways, assuming no montly pass, is 15.20.

Minimum parking fee at CTC is 20 in the cheapest lot. 35 in the general lot.

So at best, you're saving enough for another person's one way fare. Go general and you're paying less than half.

Thats not even including gas costs.

Believe whatever you want about the best way to get to and from a game. But from a straight up. Cost perspective you are wrong.

15.20, 20 bucks, all said for the price of a game, thats a few percentage points.

And the gas costs are largely the same for a lot of people, you still have to drive to a park n ride. Extraordinarily few people are willing to go with a local bus with 30-60 minute turn around time.

Saving 10 bucks max for the pleasure of a tougher time getting there and out is not gonna fly.

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

When we have a downtown arena with LRT, that is how I will get to and from games, and I will be going to a lot more of them. like a lot. I might even get a half season tickets package. As it stands I don’t even go to week night games in Kanata even if I am offered free tickets, due to the hassle. I just watch on my nice TV on a bit of a delay to avoid commercials and go to sleep after (I wake up around 6:00 to get ready for work).

That’s me, N=1, but I am sure there will be a lot like me. Notable in my case, I am in Westboro with phase 2 LRT stop 500m from my door, I know that doesn’t apply to most people but there will be a lot in my boat.

And I’m operating on the assumption that it won’t be a huge PITA to use LRT. The Senators and the city of Ottawa have to get that part right. I’ve been to massive soccer stadiums in Europe where the majority of fans use trains to get to and from the stadium, but they massively increase the number of trains to accommodate the large crowds. When you arrive at the station (usually very close to the stadium) there are huge crowds waiting to on a train but you only end up waiting like 10 minutes.

On a side note. I avoid Landsdowne due to the inaccessibility (except by bus). I would happily take in events there if it was easier.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I suppose you could be right...question....why is his Lambo a ridiculous ride?

Because if you can afford one you're filthy rich, which is not something 99.9% (or some, actual accurate number lol) of our society can relate to. It's not normal life stuff, it's gated community super duper wealth.

 

[Micklebot]

Because if you can afford one you're filthy rich, which is not something 99.9% (or some, actual accurate number lol) of our society can relate to. It's not normal life stuff, it's gated community super duper wealth.

Idk, you can probably get into an Urus as a top 1% earner, vice just the top .1%...

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Idk, you can probably get into an Urus as a top 1% earner, vice just the top .1%...

Lol, well, that's where my number was completely arbitrary and pulled out of my ass, so I won't disagree with you.

Is that "getting into one" or affording one comfortably? I can't imagine stretching to have a luxury vehicle, but I also hate driving with a passion and would be happy to never have to do it again. If I'm the .1%, I'm hiring a full time driver and I only care that the seats are comfortable.

 

[Micklebot]

Lol, well, that's where my number was completely arbitrary and pulled out of my ass, so I won't disagree with you.

Is that "getting into one" or affording one comfortably? I can't imagine stretching to have a luxury vehicle, but I also hate driving with a passion and would be happy to never have to do it again. If I'm the .1%, I'm hiring a full time driver and I only care that the seats are comfortable.

I was trying to be funny...

But, top 1% is ~500k annual, so 50% of your annual salary to buy a car over a 4 or 5 year car loan seems on par with the average joe going out and getting a 40-50k on a ford Edge or whatever.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I was trying to be funny...

But, top 1% is ~500k annual, so 50% of your annual salary to buy a car over a 4 or 5 year car loan seems on par with the average joe going out and getting a 40-50k on a ford Edge or whatever.

And here I thought you were just coming at me with some reality.

Is that ~500k pre-tax? Either way, it's in the realm of affordability if that's the priority, but it'd likely be enough of a hit to come at the expense of some other luxuries they might want. I wouldn't buy a 1/4+ mil vehicle in that income range, but I would buy a 1/4+ mil home theater, so just different strokes.

 

[Micklebot]

And here I thought you were just coming at me with some reality.

Is that ~500k pre-tax? Either way, it's in the realm of affordability if that's the priority, but it'd likely be enough of a hit to come at the expense of some other luxuries they might want. I wouldn't buy a 1/4+ mil vehicle in that income range, but I would buy a 1/4+ mil home theater, so just different strokes.

Pre tax.

That's one hell of a home theater... lol.

I also think there's a point where you end up looking for things to spend your money on... some of the essentials aren't going to keep rising as a function of your annual income, my internet, cell, heathing and cooling ect won't ratchet up every time I get a raise for example, I suppose I might decide to get a nicer house, or fancier phone but there likely comes a point where that caps out and I think that probably happens before hitting the top 1% bracket though I can't say I have personal experience there...

 

[Beech]

15.20, 20 bucks, all said for the price of a game, thats a few percentage points.

And the gas costs are largely the same for a lot of people, you still have to drive to a park n ride. Extraordinarily few people are willing to go with a local bus with 30-60 minute turn around time.

Saving 10 bucks max for the pleasure of a tougher time getting there and out is not gonna fly.

the situation as of today is: Should Lebreton be in fact the end location. There is little parking around it.

If entrepreneurs jump in and put up multilevel lots and or find large parcels of land for open lots, the cost would be so high, it will result in the cost of parking to be higher than the CTCs $20-$35.

And so the question will be, What will event goers do?
Pay..not go.. use transit ??????

Those that seem to feel, it will force hands and people will use transit, may come to find out that "not go" becomes a more used option. Now you are finished. Ditto for those that assume the ocean is deep and people will pay the $40-$70.

Andlauer, Sutcliff, Bettman, Ford (or his replacement) will have lots of analysis to do.

If it leads to the even bigger question of: is Lebreton the right spot.. Good luck in having a correct answer.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Pre tax.

That's one hell of a home theater... lol.

I also think there's a point where you end up looking for things to spend your money on... some of the essentials aren't going to keep rising as a function of your annual income, my internet, cell, heathing and cooling ect won't ratchet up every time I get a raise for example, I suppose I might decide to get a nicer house, or fancier phone but there likely comes a point where that caps out and I think that probably happens before hitting the top 1% bracket though I can't say I have personal experience there...

Figured.

Easily. 500k would be preferred. The top of the line Christie projectors are in the 100k+ cdn range just on their own. Custom build with seating and other equipment adds up quickly. Plus the cost of Kaleidescape (super rich peoples streaming/downloading solution for full uncompressed quality) can push 100k. Sky is the limit on sound as I'm sure you can imagine, given your interest in guitars and what not.

Good point. That seems to be the case. Neither do I, but I'm watching my brother go through that a little with toy after toy. Every week it's something else. Then there's the type that grew up with little, bought a modest house, retired young, and mostly hoard it until they die just to leave it to their children. The type that would return a roll of scotch tape they don't need to wal-mart despite having a 15m investment portfolio.

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

I was trying to be funny...

But, top 1% is ~500k annual, so 50% of your annual salary to buy a car over a 4 or 5 year car loan seems on par with the average joe going out and getting a 40-50k on a ford Edge or whatever.

I’m pretty sure that’s the approximate median income of the top 1%. To get “into” the top 1% it’s sub-300k based on census data. I did not look myself, but I’m in groups where politics and taxes are discussed extensively.

Not that it changes your point much.

 

[Adrianopolous]

This is tired discussion. I can go back to 2010 and find threads on a downtown arena. How many years are we gonna keep talking and talking

 

[ottawah]

If it leads to the even bigger question of: is Lebreton the right spot.. Good luck in having a correct answer.

Agreed, although for me the burning question is given a city that has little to no downtown based support for season tickets, where the majority of the top 20% of income earners live in suburbs and do not work downtown, especially west and south end and have little appetite for public transit, does a rink with no parking and no one stop transit solution work?

At the moment transit would be noticeably slower than driving (70 minutes from CTC to LeBreton when there are no express busses). You think people hate 15 minutes in the CTC parking lot, wait until its over an hour by transit then still driving home. Now once the LRT goes further that time will drop, but its still substantial.

It works in other cities because the support is downtown and workers are already there.

I think most sites from the split to Kanata are perfectly workable if it is on/near the Queensway with parking. The fact Kanata has drawn quite well over the years is due to it being on the Queensway. If it was in Bridlewood for example, the team would have been gone long ago.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

The team has a hard enough time filling rink. no way there are that many people lining up, especially with what is likely a 20-40% increase in ticket prices.

When the Arena is relocated from the fringe of the Marketplace, to the centre of the Marketplace making it much more assessable with being located between two LRT stations, there will be more people wanting to go to games than there is now.

 

[ottawah]

When the Arena is relocated from the fringe of the Marketplace, to the centre of the Marketplace making it much more assessable with being located between two LRT stations, there will be more people wanting to go to games than there is now.

In theory yes. but in practice?

Remember Ottawa had a rink in the center of the city. And it was still 75% west/south enders buying season tickets and they could not even average 10K fans, meaning interest outside these areas was minor. Once they moved to a Queensway location attendance skyrocketed. The concept that there is a huge untapped market if they move to a central location is not a given with past history taken into account.

I still do believe it will draw better in a central location, but not noticeably better. Of concern is the likelihood of a steep price increase in tickets and that could severely dampen demand. Someone has to pay for a 1.2B+ rink. Plus a loss of parking revenue to the team.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

In theory yes. but in practice?

Remember Ottawa had a rink in the center of the city. And it was still 75% west/south enders buying season tickets and they could not even average 10K fans, meaning interest outside these areas was minor. Once they moved to a Queensway location attendance skyrocketed. The concept that there is a huge untapped market if they move to a central location is not a given with past history taken into account.

I still do believe it will draw better in a central location, but not noticeably better. Of concern is the likelihood of a steep price increase in tickets and that could severely dampen demand. Someone has to pay for a 1.2B+ rink. Plus a loss of parking revenue to the team.

I wonder if parking is HRR? I would think it was not, but perhaps some knows for sure?


I also wonder where you’re getting the stats about the locations in the Greater Ottawa Region, of the paying customers that go to NHL games in Ottawa?


When they played in the Civic Center, how did they know where I lived as a partial STH?


If the Arena is relocated to Lebreton Flats, and built practically on top of the LRT and within a stones throw of a bridge to Gatineau…. It does not take a rocket surgeon to speculate that drawing fans from all regions in the area will be much easier than the current location, which is closer to, or easier to get to, from Templton QC, Arnprior and Carlton Place, than Orleans.

 

[GCK]

Figured.

Easily. 500k would be preferred. The top of the line Christie projectors are in the 100k+ cdn range just on their own. Custom build with seating and other equipment adds up quickly. Plus the cost of Kaleidescape (super rich peoples streaming/downloading solution for full uncompressed quality) can push 100k. Sky is the limit on sound as I'm sure you can imagine, given your interest in guitars and what not.

Good point. That seems to be the case. Neither do I, but I'm watching my brother go through that a little with toy after toy. Every week it's something else. Then there's the type that grew up with little, bought a modest house, retired young, and mostly hoard it until they die just to leave it to their children. The type that would return a roll of scotch tape they don't need to wal-mart despite having a 15m investment portfolio.

I’ve got a friend in Toronto that does this for high end homes. Anthony Davis spent 300K but one of his clients hit 750K, which included seating.

 

[Micklebot]

I wonder if parking is HRR? I would think it was not, but perhaps some knows for sure?


I also wonder where you’re getting the stats about the locations in the Greater Ottawa Region, of the paying customers that go to NHL games in Ottawa?


When they played in the Civic Center, how did they know where I lived as a partial STH?


If the Arena is relocated to Lebreton Flats, and built practically on top of the LRT and within a stones throw of a bridge to Gatineau…. It does not take a rocket surgeon to speculate that drawing fans from all regions in the area will be much easier than the current location, which is closer to, or easier to get to, from Templton QC, Arnprior and Carlton Place, than Orleans.

Yes, parking is HRR on game days, any revenue derived directly or indirectly as a result of playing NHL games or from NHL events is HRR.