Crazy talk. One is retired and one is playing in his prime years.
Maybe 10 more years left on him if he age path what is predicted by Dom for example.Doug Armstrong
- Thread starter abel17
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Maybe 10 more years left on him if he age path what is predicted by Dom for example.
- Feb 12, 2008
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GoldenSeal
Believe In The Note
If he goes to Vegas and gets a Cup and some hardware he is suddenly in the discussion, like it or not.
As for him and Chopper, two very different players. Chopper is a sound DMAN with the Hand Cannon from Hell WITH precise aim. Pie plays a more complete Dman game.
AjaxManifesto
Pro sports is becoming predictable and boring
It's almost 2021 and people are still talking about some guy named Petro.
I'm excited to see what Krug and Hoffman can do.
I'm excited to see what Krug and Hoffman can do.
- Feb 12, 2008
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It’s almost like Army knew that if he overpaid Petro he wouldn’t be able to sign as many good players around him.
Yeah, either way, Al MacInnis was better than Alex Pietrangelo though.
MacInnis was on the 1st line, Pronger the 2nd for how many years? And why?
If you actually watched the games back in the day and still believe Pietrangelo is better, then...we just see things differently...
MacInnis was on the 1st line, Pronger the 2nd for how many years? And why?
If you actually watched the games back in the day and still believe Pietrangelo is better, then...we just see things differently...
- Feb 12, 2008
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GoldenSeal
Believe In The Note
I think the moment Army made it clear that he has his own personal ideologies and won't sign any player to an NMC was when we lost Colt, if he's looking for stability. I'm curious now how many others will leave St. Louis for that same reason.
GoldenSeal
Believe In The Note
Pie being the Captain and the first Blue to hoist the Cup on Boston ice for crissake makes him better than all of them who ever wore Blue who wasn't on that squad. Sure they all got hardware, in the HOF, whatever but their name isn't on the Cup as a member of the Stanley Cup Champion St. Louis Blues. That ends all discussions.
The fact that Chopper and Prongs played for as long as they did on the team with all the hardware they got and not won a Cup? I mean, come on. Is that a discussion we really want to have? Nothing against either of them as -players-, HOF or otherwise, but I'm a St. Louis Blues fan and as much as they have done for the Note, it's the Cup we play for, the Cup we're after and Pie is the greatest Blues Captain period because he brought home the Cup.
Am I talking about a player? No. I'm talking about chemistry. Army lucked out in an act of desperation. He gave up the year, brought on Chief, and brought up a rookie goaltender. This wasn't some grand plan and Army isn't some damn genius, ask any Dallas Stars fan who watched when he ran the show there and you'll find a cautionary tale and why they fired him.
Now that the team knows how Army operates and how he handled the situation with the team's best Dman and Captain, I'm wondering how bad the morale is going to be and how fast players will jump ship for security.
Regardless of which side you're on, Army screwed up a good thing.
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Reality Czech
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
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Lifting the Cup will always be a memorable moment, and Petro deserves a ton of credit for his role in that. But it doesn't make him a "better" hockey player than Al MacInnis. I guess that means Barbashev and Sundqvist are better than Federko and Sutter ever were, by the same logic. Petro deserves all the credit in the world for what's he's done for this franchise, but I have to speak up when fans say he was a better hockey player than Big Al. If Petro becomes a first ballot HOFer we can have that discussion. The Cup winning team will be held in the highest regard for all time to come, nothing can take that away from them.
Clearly you and Vollie haven't listened to Army's interview on the Cam and Strick podcast or Petro's interview on We Went Blues podcast, because they would answer any questions you may have. But it's getting a little tiresome reading you guys complain about this day after day as if you know what's going to happen in the future. Maybe it will end up being a colossal blunder or maybe we will eventually be happy we didn't give Petro whatever he wanted. Time will tell.
But I seriously doubt there is any "morale" issue. Players know this is a business, even if some fans don't wanna accept that.
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Time will tell. Pretty sure no one here has a crystal ball.
I think the team looks pretty good on paper. I think Krugs d is under rated due to his offensive play. Faulk needs to step up and play like he did in Carolina.
adding Hoffman helps with the loss of Tarasenko. Hopefully Thomas can take a big step forward.
I am glad we didn’t stand pat and added some proven offense, but part of me would like to see the kids get some playing time.
I think the team looks pretty good on paper. I think Krugs d is under rated due to his offensive play. Faulk needs to step up and play like he did in Carolina.
adding Hoffman helps with the loss of Tarasenko. Hopefully Thomas can take a big step forward.
I am glad we didn’t stand pat and added some proven offense, but part of me would like to see the kids get some playing time.
Guys we are better then this. Time to end the attacks and move on.
Vollie, this includes you also. Everyone knows where everyone else stands on the issue. No one is going to change there stance so let’s move the #$’x on and talk about the rest of the team.
I don’t want to see the entire season spent trolling or going after each other with threads degenerating into “he who shall not be named” back and forth.
There are so many other things to discuss- right now it is lines, pp expansion discussion. Playing in the Western conference.......
Vollie, this includes you also. Everyone knows where everyone else stands on the issue. No one is going to change there stance so let’s move the #$’x on and talk about the rest of the team.
I don’t want to see the entire season spent trolling or going after each other with threads degenerating into “he who shall not be named” back and forth.
There are so many other things to discuss- right now it is lines, pp expansion discussion. Playing in the Western conference.......
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I am so sick of reading this! Why do we want Faulk to play like he did in Carolina? He was a big fish in a small pond, who put up PP numbers while absolutely sucking defensively! He has NEVER been a good defenseman. He had one year on that team when his +/- was above 0. From 2013 to 17 he was -9, -19. -22, -18 and -26 respectively. He was a -3 on our team last season, and I watched him carefully. His play confirmed everything I thought about him. The only reason he was an All-Star is because the NHL requires one player from every team, and he was the best player Carolina could provide. He has never been good defensively, and Carolina traded him for a reason. Ask any Hurricanes fan on the main boards about Justin Faulk. Enough is enough with this false narrative of Justin Faulk being a good defenseman in Carolina. He was a one-dimensional PP specialist and he still is. In fact, at age 28 I think he is declining and it is naive to think he's going to recover his full offensive production.
Reality Czech
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
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Just to try and steer this thread back to Doug Armstrong, his legacy will not be defined solely by the Petro situation. The only way to judge a GM is by looking at his overall body of work, and if someone is being objective, they have to admit that Armstrong has done a masterful job since he came to St. Louis. It's not easy to pull off trades for top-level players, but Armstrong managed to acquire Schenn, ROR and Bouwmeester without hurting the core of the team. He got back valuable pieces for Shatty, Stastny, and Elliott. The Reaves trade was an absolute coup. His free agent signings have nearly all worked out in the Blues favor. To be honest, I'm not sure what more the guy needs to do to earn the fans' trust.
Someone can be disappointed about Petro, but there is enough information out there to be able to understand both sides of the story and why a deal didn't get done. I would imagine that in any business, it's necessary to draw a line in terms of what you're willing or unwilling to accept. It seems that Army did offer Petro more than he would for an average player, but Petro was able to get more from another franchise. Both sides drew a line and neither was willing to budge enough to get a deal done. I don't feel the need to blame anyone, that's just business.
Trying to be as objective as possible, I only see a few moves he has made that are worthy of criticism: the Oshie trade (he'll take an L on this one, but we also don't know if Oshie would have ended up signing here long-term), the Faulk signing (the trade itself was fine, but he jumped the gun signing him so soon afterwards....however, I don't think that changed the "line" he wasn't willing to cross for Petro), Perron/Paajarvi trade (didn't work out in the short-term, but no long-term damage), the Fabbri deal (done more as a favor to Fabs, who looked pretty ineffective after coming back from injury), and the Petro non-signing (after which Army responded by grabbing 2 of the top UFAs on the market). Even if people complain about those moves, I don't see how anyone can argue that they outweigh all of the good/great moves he has made over the years.
For more insight into the mind of a GM, check out Brian Burke's interview on Spittin' Chiclets. He talked about how GMs can't be afraid to make bold moves, and they have to accept the risk that some of these moves won't work out. But that doesn't mean you don't take the risk to begin with. I have never understood why some fans feel the need to judge a trade or free agent signing right away, because you can only truly judge a move in retrospect...sometimes years after the fact. People crapped all over the Maroon signing and Bouwmeester's extension for months, only to see those players become key members of a Cup winning team. Some moves that look bad in the short term end up working out, and vice versa. GMs are like professional poker players....they won't win every hand or every tournament, the idea is to come out ahead in the long run.
Someone can be disappointed about Petro, but there is enough information out there to be able to understand both sides of the story and why a deal didn't get done. I would imagine that in any business, it's necessary to draw a line in terms of what you're willing or unwilling to accept. It seems that Army did offer Petro more than he would for an average player, but Petro was able to get more from another franchise. Both sides drew a line and neither was willing to budge enough to get a deal done. I don't feel the need to blame anyone, that's just business.
Trying to be as objective as possible, I only see a few moves he has made that are worthy of criticism: the Oshie trade (he'll take an L on this one, but we also don't know if Oshie would have ended up signing here long-term), the Faulk signing (the trade itself was fine, but he jumped the gun signing him so soon afterwards....however, I don't think that changed the "line" he wasn't willing to cross for Petro), Perron/Paajarvi trade (didn't work out in the short-term, but no long-term damage), the Fabbri deal (done more as a favor to Fabs, who looked pretty ineffective after coming back from injury), and the Petro non-signing (after which Army responded by grabbing 2 of the top UFAs on the market). Even if people complain about those moves, I don't see how anyone can argue that they outweigh all of the good/great moves he has made over the years.
For more insight into the mind of a GM, check out Brian Burke's interview on Spittin' Chiclets. He talked about how GMs can't be afraid to make bold moves, and they have to accept the risk that some of these moves won't work out. But that doesn't mean you don't take the risk to begin with. I have never understood why some fans feel the need to judge a trade or free agent signing right away, because you can only truly judge a move in retrospect...sometimes years after the fact. People crapped all over the Maroon signing and Bouwmeester's extension for months, only to see those players become key members of a Cup winning team. Some moves that look bad in the short term end up working out, and vice versa. GMs are like professional poker players....they won't win every hand or every tournament, the idea is to come out ahead in the long run.
Justin Faulk is a legit second pairing dman, likely a number 3 on most teams. Look at his one ice time, he was playing 22-24 minutes a night. Like all second pairing guys he has some strengths and weaknesses. Carolina wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire at that time and they were consistently not good for most of his time there. The year before we traded for him he had the best +/- on his team for Dmen, but he was the worst the other years.
Considering our team tends to cycle the puck low and move it low to high, have dmen that can score from the point is critical - it is an area we have lacked in and it may require more teams to look to cover the point vs. middle of the ice. We really have not had that since Shatty left. Now, as we play a 5 man unit and will likely have Faulk/Scandella pairing and a Krug/CP pairing, we have ways to score from the point. Do we have too much of it, I don't know, but...
At 28, he isn't declining - he is moving into his prime.
The bolded part is delusional. We literally were just informed a top UFA is taking less money than other offers and willing to come on a PTO to accommodate the team’s cap situation. That shows a high level of trust and desire to be in St Louis specifically. Many GMs lack the credibility to pull off a move like that.
This narrative of an agitated locker room or assuming that Parayko will leave over a NMC as a foregone conclusion is simply a projection of your biases. Want to criticize Armstrong, have at it. But at least limit it to things that actually happened. This post reminds me of a time my ex-wife woke up and was angry with me all day over something I did in a dream she had.
mike1320
Registered User
Renard
Registered User
I heard Reed Low comment on Al MacInnis. Low said that MacInnis was a very calming nfluence on the team. Al was unflappable. If something really bad happened on the ice, the guys on the bench would say " We are Ok. Al's out there."
As far as Pietrangelo, he is no longer a Blue and he could be if he had wanted. So much for him.
As far as Pietrangelo, he is no longer a Blue and he could be if he had wanted. So much for him.
SwivelSchwartz
Registered User
- May 14, 2019
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Doug Armstrong’s a great GM, we’re lucky to have him
ThunderCat
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2019
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We'll miss him once he's gone.. he's always making moves, and is always one step ahead to keep this team in contention!!
Can't say that for all the other teams around the league..
We're lucky to have him, some might not see it now.. but will eventually!!
There's a reason he's one of the most respected GM's in the league..
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