News Article: Dorion says all players but ek and stone available

[Tuna99]

So if Ottaw offered a 2nd and a 5th Vegas wouldn’t of taken it over Dallas because Vegas has a vendetta against larger Returns from ottawa because Ottawa wanted Methot, but not as bad as Dallas wanted him, so Vegas took less from Dallas because that makes sense???

This makes absolutely no sense. If Dorion has overpaid for every player he’s gotten, why not throw a late round pick in to get Methot back?

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Here we are arguing about what Turris said vs what Dorion said.

Melnyck got $25 million USD in expansion, 3 rounds of playoff hockey revenue and we still don’t have money to pay for Methot or Turris.

Melnyck is not the problem, not Turris’s agent. When Turris said he wanted to stay and Dorion wanted him I believe him. I also believe Turris when he said Melnyck wouldn’t pony up the money to sign him.

Melnyck is the problem. Not Turris

Have you ever heard an approaching UFA, like Turris, say he did not want to stay?

 

[Tuna99]

Have you ever heard an approaching UFA, like Turris, say this did not want to stay?

Yes. Daniel Alfreddson

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

So if Ottaw offered a 2nd and a 5th Vegas wouldn’t of taken it over Dallas because Vegas has a vendetta against larger Returns from ottawa because Ottawa wanted Methot, but not as bad as Dallas wanted him, so Vegas took less from Dallas because that makes sense???

This makes absolutely no sense. If Dorion had overpaid for every player he’s gotten, why not throw a late round pick in to get Methot back?

Look, all we know is Dorion indicated he attempted to get Methot back from the VGK, and it did not happen.

We can assume is was more than a 2nd, because Dorion passed, because it was more than he was willing to "pay", and the VGK made the deal with Dallas.

This makes sense to me .............. if you don't understand, then I can't help you.

 

[Micklebot]

What we know is Turris claims he was never offered a 6 year deal. Dorion never disputed that either. We can either take that as fact, or not, but if we start questioning things that neither side disputes, we might as well assume that Turris did offer 6 years, and Dorion was pushing for 7 or 8 because at that point we're just picking and choosing what to believe.

So, Facts:
Turris signed for 6x6 with Nashville

Public statements:
-Turris was looking for a 7 or 8 year deal.
-Neither Turris nor Dorion offered a 6 year option
-Turris thinks Management wanted him there, but ownership got in the way.
-Dorion though negotiations were going smoothly.
-Dorion had a long standing interest in trading for Duchene dating back to the 2016 draft.
-Dorion is the one who gets to decide when to initiate a trade.

Assumptions:
-Dorion was looking for a 5 year term (does anyone have a quote this effect, I have it as an assumption based off of not having offered 6, but maybe Dorion was looking for even shorter term?)

Speculation:
-Some are speculating that Turris wanted out and was pricing himself out of the market.
-Others are speculating that Dorion was stalling negotiations to facilitate a trade for Duchene.

Questions:
-If Dorion wanted Turris more than the trade and would have preferred a 6x6 or similar deal, why didn't he offer 6 years?
-Why didn't Turris' camp offer a 6 year option?

I've yet to see a rationale behind why Turris should have offered a 6 year option before being traded when Dorion is the one who decides when to cut his loses and pull the trigger on a trade. To me, it stands to reason that Dorion should offer Turris the best deal that he still considers preferable to the trade option before pulling the trigger on a trade. I can't understand why someone would think that's Turris responsibility in this situation because Turris doesn't decide if and when a trade is the best option.

If someone can explain to me why, if Dorion would have prefered Turris for 6 years over trading him for Duchene, he didn't first offer that option before arranging the trade, I'm all ears, but until I hear/read a rational explanation as to why Dorion might act this way, I'll sit firmly in the camp of Dorion wasn't interested in Turris for 6 years.

 

[Micklebot]

Look, all we know is Dorion indicated he attempted to get Methot back from the VGK, and it did not happen.

We can assume is was more than a 2nd, because Dorion passed, because it was more than he was willing to "pay", and the VGK made the deal with Dallas.

This makes sense to me .............. if you don't understand, then I can't help you.

Seems odd to me that Vegas would prefer to take a lesser offer from a team they'd potentially be competing with for a wildcard spot.

Could we not assume that a 2nd was too rich for Dorion? Perhaps Dorion was insisting that Vegas take salary back instead (seems reasonable given our tight budget), and Vegas wasn't interested. Maybe instead of a 2nd, we offered Burrows and a 3rd.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Yes. Daniel Alfreddson

Alfredsson was NOT an impending UFA, he already was an UFA when he signed with Detroit ..... so fail on your part.

I don't remember Alfredsson saying "he did not want to stay in Ottawa"...... so if you have the link to that statement, I'd appreciate it being posted here.


If I remember correctly, Alfredsson left, when the NHL opened up that new "negotiating window" for UFAs, where they were allowed to "talk" with other teams, prior to July first .......... so held talks with the Wings, even before sitting down to talk with BM.

I seem to remember it was his choice, as he thought about wining a Cup, and thought his chance were better in Detroit than Ottawa

"This is truly a situation to me that this is about me, it's a decision I make for myself, not for anybody else, it's all about trying to get the Stanley Cup."
Daniel Alfredsson

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

What we know is Turris claims he was never offered a 6 year deal. Dorion never disputed that either. We can either take that as fact, or not, but if we start questioning things that neither side disputes, we might as well assume that Turris did offer 6 years, and Dorion was pushing for 7 or 8 because at that point we're just picking and choosing what to believe.

I posted Dorions' comment a few day ago where he stated, for the record, that the Turris camp did NOT put a 6 year contact offer/counter offer on the table.







"The negotiations for me were always healthy, when it came to the contract negotiations, we just felt there wasn't going to be a lot of movement from 7-8 years. Six years was never put on the table. At the same time, we're OK with that. We feel that we acquired a good player and we are a better team today."
Pierre Dorion.

NHL trades: Contract impasse paves way for Kyle Turris to join Predators







So no assumptions about that .................. unless you want to assume Dorion was lying.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Seems odd to me that Vegas would prefer to take a lesser offer from a team they'd potentially be competing with for a wildcard spot.

Could we not assume that a 2nd was too rich for Dorion? Perhaps Dorion was insisting that Vegas take salary back instead (seems reasonable given our tight budget), and Vegas wasn't interested. Maybe instead of a 2nd, we offered Burrows and a 3rd.

The only assumption to be made, is that whatever the VGK wanted for Methot, was too much for Dorion to consider.

 

[BondraTime]

Have you ever heard an approaching UFA, like Turris, say he did not want to stay?

Like half of the past 20 years worth of UFA deadline deals??

Not much point even trying, as you have chosen this as the hill you will die on and us "fans" are out to lunch

 

[Micklebot]

I posted Dorions' comment a few day ago where he stated, for the record, that the Turris camp did NOT put a 6 year contact offer/counter offer on the table.







"The negotiations for me were always healthy, when it came to the contract negotiations, we just felt there wasn't going to be a lot of movement from 7-8 years. Six years was never put on the table. At the same time, we're OK with that. We feel that we acquired a good player and we are a better team today."
Pierre Dorion.

NHL trades: Contract impasse paves way for Kyle Turris to join Predators







So no assumptions about that .................. unless you want to assume Dorion was lying.

Did you read my whole post? I put that neither side offered 6 years as an option under public statements. It's not a fact, it's just a statement that neither side has disputed. My point was that a public statement neither side disputes should probably be assumed true, otherwise we might as well start questioning everything. You're arguing with yourself at this point...

 

[Micklebot]

The only assumption to be made, is that whatever the VGK wanted for Methot, was too much for Dorion to consider.

Great, so you agree that the assumption you made that Dorion was being asked for more than just a 2nd is invalid. Only took you 22 mins to contradict yourself.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Alfredsson was NOT an impending UFA, he already was an UFA when he signed with Detroit ..... so fail on your part.

I don't remember Alfredsson saying "he did not want to stay in Ottawa"...... so if you have the link to that statement, I'd appreciate it being posted here.


If I remember correctly, Alfredsson left, when the NHL opened up that new "negotiating window" for UFAs, where they were allowed to "talk" with other teams, prior to July first .......... so held talks with the Wings, even before sitting down to talk with BM.

I seem to remember it was his choice, as he thought about wining a Cup, and thought his chance were better in Detroit than Ottawa

"This is truly a situation to me that this is about me, it's a decision I make for myself, not for anybody else, it's all about trying to get the Stanley Cup."
Daniel Alfredsson

Alfie left both times because of the owner. Period.
It's simply not up for debate.
Do you know anyone remotely associated with the team or Alfie?
It's hardly a secret.

 

[Wondercarrot]

I posted Dorions' comment a few day ago where he stated, for the record, that the Turris camp did NOT put a 6 year contact offer/counter offer on the table.







"The negotiations for me were always healthy, when it came to the contract negotiations, we just felt there wasn't going to be a lot of movement from 7-8 years. Six years was never put on the table. At the same time, we're OK with that. We feel that we acquired a good player and we are a better team today."
Pierre Dorion.

NHL trades: Contract impasse paves way for Kyle Turris to join Predators







So no assumptions about that .................. unless you want to assume Dorion was lying.

lol, obviously Dorion was OK with it, that's why he never offered it to Turris.

 

[lancepitlick]

Turris' Camp never put 6/6 on the table ...... so if that what he was willing to take, to stay in Ottawa, how do you explain why he, or his agent, made this offer to the Senators???

If it wasn't on the table for Ottawa but was for Nashville, what does that say about Ottawa? That's my point.

 

[lancepitlick]

Alfie left both times because of the owner. Period.
It's simply not up for debate.
Do you know anyone remotely associated with the team or Alfie?
It's hardly a secret.

I know this one person removed from the GM. Why else would he have left the first time and moreover the second time when he lives in Ottawa and has made it clear he wants to be involved in hockey management.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Why are we posting random twits here? We have our own resident experts, no need for outsiders. I mean official accounts sure, but random dude has less relevance here than our most obnoxious resident poster.

 

[Tundraman]

For me the Methot situation had little to do with the asking price from Vegas, Dorion has shown he's not too attached to picks, the problem I saw was the budget. We know that when (it was reported but tmk not officially confirmed) Phaneuf was asked to waive his nmc and didn't, Dorion tried to trade him to the teams on his list. He couldn't make a trade and that's why he couldn't close a deal to get Methot back. The Sens just couldn't afford the $5M and re-sign some of their RFAs. I have no doubt that Dorion wanted to retain Methot but only if he could dump one of the albatross contracts.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

You've both missed the point I was making ............ and that's not surprising.

Some people here are arguing that if Turris took 6/6 from Nashville, then why didn't Ottawa offer him the same, if that was what it was going to take to keep him.

I just kept pointing out that 6/6 was never on the table, with negotiations with Ottawa, and that indicated his intentions of wanting to peruse UFA, or be traded.


It's almost the same mindset that Dorion could have gotten Methot back from the VGK, for a 2nd, because he was traded to Dallas for a 2nd. The VGK knew that Ottawa wanted Methot a whole lot more that any other team in the league, so obviously they would have asked for a lot more than a 2nd ................. but some people here just can't wrap their heads around that.

And you totally missed the point I was making

 

[JD1]

If it wasn't on the table for Ottawa but was for Nashville, what does that say about Ottawa? That's my point.

I understand your point

what I think happened is on Friday Nashville said no to 7 years. By Sunday Turris and his agent thought better of it that we should take the 6/36 and run.

I don't personally think it says anything about ottawa.

I actually think it says more about Turris. he has a documented history of difficult contract negotiations and thought he could hold out for 7 or 8 and didn' get it.

it's too bad. I liked him. BUT I think that's the way it went down

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

I understand your point

what I think happened is on Friday Nashville said no to 7 years. By Sunday Turris and his agent thought better of it that we should take the 6/36 and run.

I don't personally think it says anything about ottawa.

I actually think it says more about Turris. he has a documented history of difficult contract negotiations and thought he could hold out for 7 or 8 and didn' get it.

it's too bad. I liked him. BUT I think that's the way it went down

Did the contract he signed with Ottawa have any drama? I don't remember so

 

[JD1]

Did the contract he signed with Ottawa have any drama? I don't remember so

no the drama was his holdout that resulted in him being traded to Ottawa.
I might be off a bit in terms of length but iirc his holdout in Phoenix in terms of games would be a top 5 holdout in the past decade

so he very clearly has a track record of wanting what he wants and being a difficult negotiator

 

[BondraTime]

no the drama was his holdout that resulted in him being traded to Ottawa.
I might be off a bit in terms of length but iirc his holdout in Phoenix in terms of games would be a top 5 holdout in the past decade

so he very clearly has a track record of wanting what he wants and being a difficult negotiator

Turris and Drouin (if midseason counts) are only 2 I know off the top of my head. Turris would be the longest I would think. Tarasenko/Gaudreau/etc. were all taken care of just after training camp, though those guys were actually holding out for a contract, which Turris wasn't.

Turris' wasn't due to contract, it was due to requesting a trade out a year prior, and trying to force the trade by holding out for a contract, not vice versa.

Not contract related, different poison

 

[JD1]

Turris and Drouin (if midseason counts) are only 2 I know off the top of my head. Turris would be the longest I would think. Tarasenko/Gaudreau/etc. were all taken care of just after training camp, though those guys were actually holding out for a contract, which Turris wasn't.

Turris' wasn't due to contract, it was due to requesting a trade out a year prior, and trying to force the trade by holding out for a contract, not vice versa.

Not contract related, different poison

too long ago to remember the fine points. I just remember the holdout.

here's a thought....a lot of guys on the board here think Dorion gives up too much

want an extra 1 mil on your AAV? ..no problem, I'll just get my eraser out and change

oh, you want me to add a draft pick to make a trade? how about I add two.

you get the idea

why do so many guys here believe that Dorion gives away the farm in negotiations/trades, but when it comes to a player that has a lengthy holdout track record, the lack of a deal is Dorion's fault.

If PD was what the gang here thinks....wouldn't Turris be signed to 7 or 8 years at above market? I mean that's the perception of him?

I don't have any more info than anyone else but reading the tea leaves and connecting the dots the Turris situation keeps coming up the same way to me which is the team sat on 5 tops and Turris sat on 7 bottom. Neither side bent. Turris is a predator

 

[Langdon Alger]

Look, all we know is Dorion indicated he attempted to get Methot back from the VGK, and it did not happen.

We can assume is was more than a 2nd, because Dorion passed, because it was more than he was willing to "pay", and the VGK made the deal with Dallas.

This makes sense to me .............. if you don't understand, then I can't help you.

I remember hearing they wanted our 2018 first rounder. Good thing we didn’t do that. I have no idea why they’d ask for more from us than from Dallas. Maybe McPhee overvalued Methots worth from other teams. He asked Dorion for a first not to take Methot and then when Dorion said no, McPhee grabbed Methot and started shopping him only to find people weren’t willing to meet his price.

Only problem with that theory is that Mcphee was probably seeing what he could get for Methot before the expansion draft. He probably understood the market. A 2nd in 2020 and a goalie who was just picked in the late rounds? Weird trade.

Maybe McPhee is just a dickbag and was trying to stick it to Dorion.