Management Don Sweeney explains why Bruce Cassidy was fired and a rebuild is possible - UNEDITED

[MarchysNoseKnows]

No lmao that wasn’t his point. He came in changing the discussion talking about since 2015 and talking about players not even on the roster . My point the whole time has been talking about roster players still playing for the team. That’s why I’m earlier posts I left off the Dangelos, nemestkitovs, and gudas for Tampa.

The original post I responded to was talking about a broad scope of recent picks and older picks like stamkos and hedman.

I swear you guys don’t go back and read the discussion going on. You see the most recent post, pick one line of an entire post and completely change the discussion based on one line of supporting evidence of an overall discussion.

Gudas was 2010. Namestikov 2011. Tony D 2014. Again, all Yzerman. Would you attach Chiarelli's drafting record to Sweeney?

No lmao that wasn’t his point. He came in changing the discussion talking about since 2015 and talking about players not even on the roster . My point the whole time has been talking about roster players still playing for the team. That’s why I’m earlier posts I left off the Dangelos, nemestkitovs, and gudas for Tampa.

The original post I responded to was talking about a broad scope of recent picks and older picks like stamkos and hedman.

I swear you guys don’t go back and read the discussion going on. You see the most recent post, pick one line of an entire post and completely change the discussion based on one line of supporting evidence of an overall discussion.


Because the discussion wasn’t about a single GM being Sweeney, brisebois, Yzerman or chiarelli. It was the cumulative players on the teams that have been drafted lol not about a single GM as the players being talked about spanned multiple GMs for each team.

His point is that the Lightning haven’t drafted well late since 2015. Sweeney has done better than them since then.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

No lmao that wasn’t his point. He came in changing the discussion talking about since 2015 and talking about players not even on the roster . My point the whole time has been talking about roster players still playing for the team. That’s why I’m earlier posts I left off the Dangelos, nemestkitovs, and gudas for Tampa.

The original post I responded to was talking about a broad scope of recent picks and older picks like stamkos and hedman.

I swear you guys don’t go back and read the discussion going on. You see the most recent post, pick one line of an entire post and completely change the discussion based on one line of supporting evidence of an overall discussion.


Because the discussion wasn’t about a single GM being Sweeney, brisebois, Yzerman or chiarelli. It was the cumulative players on the teams that have been drafted lol not about a single GM as the players being talked about spanned multiple GMs for each team.

You're One on Five, Uncle.

Dump the puck and go for a change.

 

[UncleRico]

Gudas was 2010. Namestikov 2011. Tony D 2014. Again, all Yzerman. Would you attach Chiarelli's drafting record to Sweeney?


His point is that the Lightning haven’t drafted well late since 2015. Sweeney has done better than them since then.

You aren’t listening to a single thing I’m saying it’s actually incredible.

You're One on Five, Uncle.

Dump the puck and go for a change.

Lol I’m not even arguing any point except that the five are coming here and changing the topic of discussion.

One on five against a bunch of pee wee’s who don’t know which direction is forward.

 

[everett rats]

You can go on and on and on all of you posters but tampa only won because 88 was in goal the bruins would have definitely beat Carolina the New York ranges and Tampa if 88 was in goal for them please don't even try telling me that's not true

 

[UncleRico]

You can go on and on and on all of you posters but tampa only won because 88 was in goal the bruins would have definitely beat Carolina the New York ranges and Tampa if 88 was in goal for them please don't even try telling me that's not true

Ya and the bruins would have won the cup if they had mcdavid at center behind bergy.

Straw man argument.

 

[NDiesel]

No lmao that wasn’t his point. He came in changing the discussion talking about since 2015 and talking about players not even on the roster . My point the whole time has been talking about roster players still playing for the team. That’s why I’m earlier posts I left off the Dangelos, nemestkitovs, and gudas for Tampa.

The original post I responded to was talking about a broad scope of recent picks and older picks like stamkos and hedman.

I swear you guys don’t go back and read the discussion going on. You see the most recent post, pick one line of an entire post and completely change the discussion based on one line of supporting evidence of an overall discussion.

Your original post is how they are infinitely better at drafting. And yeah thats true in later rounds, until you include the fact that the Bruins have been able to get legit NHL players in Pasta and McAvoy in the bottom half of the first round while the last impact players the Bolts drafted in round 1 outside of the top 3 was in 2012. They stink in round 1 and find some gems in other rounds. Bruins have both found some gems in round 1 and later rounds.

Would you be happy with the following picks as a Bruins fan?

Brett Connolly 6th overall
Koekkoek 10th overall
Cal Foote 14th overall
Vasi and DeAngelo 19th overall
Howden, Namestnikov and Foote 27th overall

It's actually impressive how they have drafted considering they've really blown some 1st rounders.

In that same time frame excluding top 3 picks Bruins have drafted.

Hamilton
Pastrnak
McAvoy
Debrusk
Zboril
Vaak (got us Lindholm)
Lysell
Beecher
Frederic
Subban

Which group is better in your opinion? We would absolutely roast our GM for that Connolly pick or picking Koekkoek over Forsberg and Wilson. Hell Foote over Thomas/Chytil/Norris is even worse than Vaak over those three.

 

[UncleRico]

Your original post is how they are infinitely better at drafting. And yeah thats true in later rounds, until you include the fact that the Bruins have been able to get legit NHL players in Pasta and McAvoy in the bottom half of the first round while the last impact players the Bolts drafted in round 1 outside of the top 3 was in 2012. They stink in round 1 and find some gems in other rounds. Bruins have both found some gems in round 1 and later rounds.

Would you be happy with the following picks as a Bruins fan?

Brett Connolly 6th overall
Koekkoek 10th overall
Cal Foote 14th overall
Vasi and DeAngelo 19th overall
Howden, Namestnikov and Foote 27th overall

It's actually impressive how they have drafted considering they've really blown some 1st rounders.

In that same time frame excluding top 3 picks Bruins have drafted.

Hamilton
Pastrnak
McAvoy
Debrusk
Zboril
Vaak (got us Lindholm)
Lysell
Beecher
Frederic
Subban

Which group is better in your opinion?

Interesting that you left our stamkos and hedman. Do those guys not count?

Again I wasn’t counting guys on the roster as I’ve stated multiple times.

There’s guys like hamilton for the bruins who turned into zboril, lauzon and JFK lol. Almost no impact at all on the current roster.

Tampa bay lighting drafted players on the current roster:

Stamkos
Hedman
Vasi
Point
Kucherov
Palat
Cirelli
Killorn
Colton

vs

Bergy
Marchand
Pasta
Mcavoy
Debrusk
Carlo
Frederic
Swayman

One of those teams built a borderline dynasty through the draft.

 

[NDiesel]

Interesting that you left our stamkos and hedman. Do those guys not count?

Again I wasn’t counting guys on the roster as I’ve stated multiple times.

There’s guys like hamilton for the bruins who turned into zboril, lauzon and JFK lol. Almost no impact at all on the current roster.

Tampa bay lighting drafted players on the current roster:

Stamkos
Hedman
Vasi
Point
Kucherov
Palat
Cirelli
Killorn
Colton

vs

Bergy
Marchand
Pasta
Mcavoy
Debrusk
Carlo
Frederic
Swayman

One of those teams built a borderline dynasty through the draft.

I left out all top 3 picks because it's pretty impossible to f that up, but I used 2010 as the cutoff. If you're going to include them then include Seguin as well. I'm also not arguing if they traded guys for impact players or not I am answering your exact post saying "the lightning drafted infinitely better than the Bruins". Thats it.

Answer what I said in my previous post, would you be happy as a Bruins fan with those collection of 1st round picks the Bolts had. Or don't respond at all if you're going to move the goal posts and try and argue that they didn't get enough for Hamilton or Seguin or whatever new argument you want to start that is completely different than them drafting infinitely better.

 

[BruinsBtn]

Your original post is how they are infinitely better at drafting. And yeah thats true in later rounds, until you include the fact that the Bruins have been able to get legit NHL players in Pasta and McAvoy in the bottom half of the first round while the last impact players the Bolts drafted in round 1 outside of the top 3 was in 2012. They stink in round 1 and find some gems in other rounds. Bruins have both found some gems in round 1 and later rounds.

Would you be happy with the following picks as a Bruins fan?

Brett Connolly 6th overall
Koekkoek 10th overall
Cal Foote 14th overall
Vasi and DeAngelo 19th overall
Howden, Namestnikov and Foote 27th overall

It's actually impressive how they have drafted considering they've really blown some 1st rounders.

In that same time frame excluding top 3 picks Bruins have drafted.

Hamilton
Pastrnak
McAvoy
Debrusk
Zboril
Vaak (got us Lindholm)
Lysell
Beecher
Frederic
Subban

Which group is better in your opinion? We would absolutely roast our GM for that Connolly pick or picking Koekkoek over Forsberg and Wilson. Hell Foote over Thomas/Chytil/Norris is even worse than Vaak over those three.

The Bruins are obviously better since Sweeney arrived. Watch, he'll move the goalposts to 'current roster' now.

 

[UncleRico]

I left out all top 3 picks because it's pretty impossible to f that up, but I used 2010 as the cutoff. If you're going to include them then include Seguin as well. I'm also not arguing if they traded guys for impact players or not I am answering your exact post saying "the lightning drafted infinitely better than the Bruins". Thats it.

Answer what I said in my previous post, would you be happy as a Bruins fan with those collection of 1st round picks the Bolts had. Or don't respond at all if you're going to move the goal posts and try and argue that they didn't get enough for Hamilton or Seguin or whatever new argument you want to start.

No I specifically stated Only current roster players you know why? Because then there is a ton of overlap. Get credit for drafting hamilton, trade him for picks and then draft a bunch of players who never impact the bruins. Seguin and his trade tree currently have zero remaining bruins and hamilton and his trade tree currently have 10 games played last year in zboril.

If stamkos or hedman had been traded they wouldn’t have been counted in what I said just like how D’Angelo and namestnikov weren’t included because they were traded and no longer on the team.

 

[Gordoff]

Punk shoo wayshun is overrated.

sPeLLing aND gRAMMaTiCaLs tOO!

 

[NDiesel]

No I specifically stated Only current roster players you know why? Because then there is a ton of overlap. Get credit for drafting hamilton, trade him for picks and then draft a bunch of players who never impact the bruins. Seguin and his trade tree currently have zero remaining bruins and hamilton and his trade tree currently have 10 games played last year in zboril.

If stamkos or hedman had been traded they wouldn’t have been counted in what I said just like how D’Angelo and namestnikov weren’t included because they were traded and no longer on the team.

Dude you said "Bolts are infinitely better at drafting than the Bruins" then went on to include both Raddysh and Joseph in that same post, neither of them are on the roster anymore. If you're going to complain that "all you do is reply to the most recent post and don't read the original" then how about you stick to the original content. You clearly changed the criteria half way through.

Its also foolish to not include someone because they were traded when talking about how well a team has drafted, in my opinion at least.

This discussion is obviously a pointless exercise since you'd prefer to move the goal posts around rather than defending your original point, and refuse to answer my question about their recent run of terrible 1st round picks. Good day sir.

 

[UncleRico]

Dude you said "Bolts are infinitely better at drafting than the Bruins" then went on to include both Raddysh and Joseph in that same post, neither of them are on the roster anymore. If you're going to complain that "all you do is reply to the most recent post and don't read the original" then how about you stick to the original content. You clearly changed the criteria half way through.

This discussion is obviously a pointless exercise since you'd prefer to move the goal posts around rather than defending your original point, and refuse to answer my question about their recent run of terrible 1st round picks. Good day sir.

Yes I included Raddyish because he played over 50% of the season with Tampa this year. So he was technically a player that impacted their roster this year.

Ya they havent had great first round picks recently. Much like the Bruins with mid to late first round picks. Bruins nailed the Mcavoy pick.

Bruins messed up 2015, tampa messed up cal foote in 2017 like the bruins messed up vaak. Nolan foote the book is still out on for their 2019 pick, but at least hes made it to the nhl unlike beecher. Howden has been meh but hes more than doubled frederics production. same draft 2 slots away.

So if you want to compare those ya Mcavoy the crown jewel and a bunch of scrubs for the rest of the first round picks which were all mid to late.

 

[everett rats]

Lol. Cal Foote was drafted at EXACTLY the same draft position as McAvoy. It's the perfect one-to-one comparison.

Yet Sweeney gets no credit because you're supposed to be getting a stud Norris-level defensemen there. While TB gets fringe NHLer and that doesn't count.

If you want to re-check this thread, it's about Don Sweeney, who has been the GM since 2015. Since then on both teams the guys drafted beyond the 1st round are:

Carlo, Swayman, Lauzon, Lindgren, Vladar
vs
Cirelli, Joseph, Colton

Number of 2nd and 3rd round picks:
Boston: 12
Tampa: 17

Somehow we're spinning that as TB is better at drafting than Sweeney in that period? This place is only good for comedy.

Sweeney has been better then the Tampa GM the only reason they have won the cup in any of their years is because of the goalie people need to wake up if they didn't have 88 in there they would have lost in the first round first Toronto wake up people

Ya and the bruins would have won the cup if they had mcdavid at center behind bergy.

Straw man argument.

Not at all my friend if Tampa doesn't have 88 do they win the first round versus Toronto this year answer it honestly

The bruins manhandled tamper this year 3-0-1 the only difference in the playoffs was they have 88 and goal they would have been out in round one if they did not have him or Toronto please spare me any more BS about this draft and stuff because it's simply isn't true

 

[Patdud]

Interesting that you left our stamkos and hedman. Do those guys not count?

Again I wasn’t counting guys on the roster as I’ve stated multiple times.

There’s guys like hamilton for the bruins who turned into zboril, lauzon and JFK lol. Almost no impact at all on the current roster.

Tampa bay lighting drafted players on the current roster:

Stamkos
Hedman
Vasi
Point
Kucherov
Palat
Cirelli
Killorn
Colton

vs

Bergy
Marchand
Pasta
Mcavoy
Debrusk
Carlo
Frederic
Swayman

One of those teams built a borderline dynasty through the draft.

Stamkos was a number 1 pick and Hedman a number 2. both acheived by sucking hard.

the highest pick in the Bruins line up below was DeBrusk at 14. I get they drafted and traded Seguin (not Chiarelli) but its not a comparable list. there are also 30 other teams that passed on Point and Kucherov.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I'll be happy to concede that Don is better at drafting than Tampa. But then, if that's true, given the greater success that Tampa has had... I'm assuming others will concede:

SY & JBB are better at hiring coaches, both head coaches, assistant coaches and developmental coaches.
SY & JBB are better at professional scouting, negotiating contracts and getting free agents signed.
SY & JBB are better at trading.
SY & JBB are better at managing the cap.

With such a huge edge in drafting as people here have pointed out, it's clear that Sweeney is deficient in other areas.

 

[frankiess]

not sure Weekes has a reputation as being a guy who just spits out unconfirmed stuff and as goofy as those Spitting Chicklet`s guys are, without a doubt, they have connections

I know neither. They are in the conjecture business.

 

[LSCII]

Every time I think I've seen it all here, I get surprised by something so profoundly idiotic and stand surprised. Don Sweeney has a done a shit job of drafting, which is why he grossly overpaid for bottom of the roster stiffs last off season, FFS. At no point should anyone with any reasonable objectivity ever make a statement to the contrary. It doesn't matter if you go pick by pick or year by year. Not enough players that they have drafted are progressing through the system. That's a huge problem and why they have cap issues today.

Comparing them to any team is irrelevant because the argument shouldn't be can you find someone that's done worse. It should be why the f*** is Don Sweeney getting extended when he's done such a horrible job drafting and developing players and mismanaged the shit out of the cap to cover up that poor drafting?

And even if you want to say Tampa has done worse lately, they just won two cups out of the last 3 years and were back in the finals this year with a real chance to win it again. Which roster would you rather have? Which recent team history would you rather have? They're playing with house money, FFS. Suggesting Don Sweeney has done anything better is f***ing idiotic. He's been the reason they aren't a real playoff contender and won't be again next year. The same f***ing holes in the roster from the last 6 years are still there and getting worse.

 

[LSCII]

I'll be happy to concede that Don is better at drafting than Tampa. But then, if that's true, given the greater success that Tampa has had... I'm assuming others will concede:

SY & JBB are better at hiring coaches, both head coaches, assistant coaches and developmental coaches.
SY & JBB are better at professional scouting, negotiating contracts and getting free agents signed.
SY & JBB are better at trading.
SY & JBB are better at managing the cap.

With such a huge edge in drafting as people here have pointed out, it's clear that Sweeney is deficient in other areas.

Well that's it, right? Either his drafting sucked and it caused a problem or something else he's done isn't working because the team has been a one line team with 1 top dman for years under his watch. He finally got gifted the answer to his second line issues with Hall forcing his way here, and he blew it less than a few months later when he squeaked and didn't give enough money to entice Krejci to stick around.

 

[NDiesel]

Every time I think I've seen it all here, I get surprised by something so profoundly idiot and stand surprised. Don Sweeney has a done a shit job of drafting, which is why he grossly overpaid for bottom of the roster stiffs last off season, FFS. At no point should anyone with any reasonable objectivity ever make a statement to the contrary. It doesn't matter if you go pick by pick or year by year. Not enough players that they have drafted are progressing through the system. That's a huge problem and why they have cap issues today.

Comparing them to any team is irrelevant because the argument shouldn't be can you find someone that's done worse. It should be why the f*** is Don Sweeney getting extended when he's done such a horrible job drafting and developing players and mismanaged the shit out of the cap to cover up that poor drafting?

And even if you want to say Tampa has done worse lately, they just won two cups out of the last 3 years and were back in the finals this year with a real chance to win it again. Which roster would you rather have? Which recent team history would you rather have? They're playing with house money, FFS. Suggesting Don Sweeney has done anything better is f***ing idiotic. He's been the reason they aren't a real playoff contender and won't be again next year. The same f***ing holes in the roster from the last 6 years are still there and getting worse.

It really depends who you give credit to. Do you think Stevie Y gets credit for finding Palat in round 7 or is it not the scouting that found that player. Lightning have f'd up a some 1st round picks lately, and that to me is more on the GM. I dont think you look at Koekkoek one pick in front of Forsberg and conclude that their scouting sucks. Likely the GM made the wrong choice.

I think once you get past round 2 any gem that is found is because of good scouting, not because of a good or bad GM. Just my opinion, I doubt Stevie Y was out watching Palat every day when he's expected to go round 7.

On the flip side if it, maybe their development is what sets them apart from the Bruins and not their scouting.

I don't think it's as black and white as Sweeney sucks at drafting and Stevie Y or whoever else is amazing at it. Lots of levels to it and it really comes down to what you (or me) think is the driving force.

 

[TCB]

The Bruins are obviously better since Sweeney arrived. Watch, he'll move the goalposts to 'current roster' now.

 

[BlackFrancis]

SY & JBB are better at professional scouting

This one, I'd say, you'd have to work to find anyone disagree with.

 

[Trashpass]

Yes and cirelli, Colton, joseph, Raddysh is better than Carlo, swayman, Lauzon, lindgren and Vlader.

Seriously I'm far from a big Sweeney fan but come on now

 

[LSCII]

It really depends who you give credit to. Do you think Stevie Y gets credit for finding Palat in round 7 or is it not the scouting that found that player. Lightning have f'd up a some 1st round picks lately, and that to me is more on the GM. I dont think you look at Koekkoek one pick in front of Forsberg and conclude that their scouting sucks. Likely the GM made the wrong choice.

I think once you get past round 2 any gem that is found is because of good scouting, not because of a good or bad GM. Just my opinion, I doubt Stevie Y was out watching Palat every day when he's expected to go round 7.

On the flip side if it, maybe their development is what sets them apart from the Bruins and not their scouting.

I don't think it's as black and white as Sweeney sucks at drafting and Stevie Y or whoever else is amazing at it. Lots of levels to it and it really comes down to what you (or me) think is the driving force.

Again, that's not the point. Comparing the Bruins organization to one that is coming off of 2 consecutive cup wins, and in the finals again this year is wildly laughable. In 8 years when Tampa is feeling the pain of missing on drafts, we can have this conversation, but now? No shot

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Drafting in the NHL is not a skill.

Its 90% (or more) luck.

That's why so many here think they could do a better job than the GMs and scouts.

Because they could, it's just so much luck.