Speculation: Don’t trade Gaudreau

[kruezer]

Also as has been said a million times, Gaudreau has a very similar player profile to Patrick Kane just less talented and on the left wing. Gaudreau plays centre from the wing in the same way. Calgary should find a strong defensive centre for him that can produce 50 points, that’s all they need (If not the options on Calgary look for someone else) and either shift Monahan to the second line or just finally let him be a goal scoring RW that he was always meant to be.

 

[Anglesmith]

Also as has been said a million times, Gaudreau has a very similar player profile to Patrick Kane just less talented and on the left wing. Gaudreau plays centre from the wing in the same way. Calgary should find a strong defensive centre for him that can produce 50 points, that’s all they need (If not the options on Calgary look for someone else) and either shift Monahan to the second line or just finally let him be a goal scoring RW that he was always meant to be.

We already have that centre in Backlund. Personally, I've always liked the idea of Backlund with Gaudreau, but we've only seen it for about two minutes total. The preferred usage for each of them is too different.

 

[crackdown44]

I will not be accepting Brodie slander at this current juncture

 

[RasmusAndersson]

Also as has been said a million times, Gaudreau has a very similar player profile to Patrick Kane just less talented and on the left wing. Gaudreau plays centre from the wing in the same way. Calgary should find a strong defensive centre for him that can produce 50 points, that’s all they need (If not the options on Calgary look for someone else) and either shift Monahan to the second line or just finally let him be a goal scoring RW that he was always meant to be.

i agree with this. I also agree that Gio and Brodie (as well as our other 2 pairs) really struggled moving the puck with a lack of support from our forwards down low on the breakout. Gaudreau is never gonna be the guy coming down low to support the d on the breakout, and neither is Monahan. We need a big upgrade on D to help get our skilled forwards the puck and centers that support the dmen. Gaudreau isn’t the issue but we aren’t putting him in a position to succeed. We can’t get him the puck on the breakout and then we blame him for not creating transition offense. Monahan has his strengths but he’s truly not built to be Gaudreau’s center. It’s so obvious.

So overall we need:
-At least 1 if not 2 upgrades to the d core
-forwards (preferably centers) that are excellent at supporting dmen on the breakout. Backlund and Ryan do this well but we also need wingers that can win board battles and make plays. Mang and Johnny are smaller and often need help, and Lucic is so slow it’s painful sometimes (even tho he does have his strengths as well). We need forwards with speed and size that ki get the puck up to our skilled forwards (Gaudreau Mang Dube Tkachuk). That’s how we’re gonna win games.

Gaudreau-_____-Tkachuk
Mang-Backlund-Lindholm
_____-Bennett-Dube
Lucic-Ryan-Reider

______-Brodie
Gio-Andersson
Valimaki-______

I wanna keep Monahan but we need the cap space and his value to acquire that defensive upgrade. Hanifin is also so overrated, can’t move the puck quickly and gets hemmed in so often. He also isn’t good enough on special teams to justify a top-4 spot. Imagine Monahan to Winnipeg for 10th+Copp or Buffalo for 8th+Montour, then use the additional cap possibly along with our first to target a legit top-pairing dman. Otherwise we’re setting Johnny up for disappointment again.

Johnny will only be successful if we put the right pieces around him, and unless we do that this off-season it’s gonna be more disappointment from the fan base

 

[User1996]

i agree with this. I also agree that Gio and Brodie (as well as our other 2 pairs) really struggled moving the puck with a lack of support from our forwards down low on the breakout. Gaudreau is never gonna be the guy coming down low to support the d on the breakout, and neither is Monahan. We need a big upgrade on D to help get our skilled forwards the puck and centers that support the dmen. Gaudreau isn’t the issue but we aren’t putting him in a position to succeed. We can’t get him the puck on the breakout and then we blame him for not creating transition offense. Monahan has his strengths but he’s truly not built to be Gaudreau’s center. It’s so obvious.

So overall we need:
-At least 1 if not 2 upgrades to the d core
-forwards (preferably centers) that are excellent at supporting dmen on the breakout. Backlund and Ryan do this well but we also need wingers that can win board battles and make plays. Mang and Johnny are smaller and often need help, and Lucic is so slow it’s painful sometimes (even tho he does have his strengths as well). We need forwards with speed and size that ki get the puck up to our skilled forwards (Gaudreau Mang Dube Tkachuk). That’s how we’re gonna win games.

Gaudreau-_____-Tkachuk
Mang-Backlund-Lindholm
_____-Bennett-Dube
Lucic-Ryan-Reider

______-Brodie
Gio-Andersson
Valimaki-______

I wanna keep Monahan but we need the cap space and his value to acquire that defensive upgrade. Hanifin is also so overrated, can’t move the puck quickly and gets hemmed in so often. He also isn’t good enough on special teams to justify a top-4 spot. Imagine Monahan to Winnipeg for 10th+Copp or Buffalo for 8th+Montour, then use the additional cap possibly along with our first to target a legit top-pairing dman. Otherwise we’re setting Johnny up for disappointment again.

Johnny will only be successful if we put the right pieces around him, and unless we do that this off-season it’s gonna be more disappointment from the fan base

Why can’t Gaudreau come low in support?

 

[kruezer]

Why can’t Gaudreau come low in support?

He could but why would you want him to? You want him to run your zone entry, if he's the low support guy he's often gonna end up running both the exit and the entry and he's just not Evgeni Malkin, he's not even Taylor Hall in that regard. Either that or you're asking him to run the exits and have a lesser guy run the entry. Play him to his strengths.

Also, I'm not here to slag TJ, he's still priority number 1 signing this off season in my books. I'm not going to rip apart one of the best pairings in the league over a strange situation like coming back from the stoppage was. And I thought he performed very well on the PK, why they kept running Forbort out on the PK instead I have no idea. I just think he struggled at 5on5 transition which he is generally elite at, saying a tonne was probably too dramatic, I don't think he was up to his usual extremely high standard. I also don't think Calgary had any of the top 3 defensemen in the series really.

I did check the WOWY stats on natural stat trick to see if they backed up what I watched and it looks like Brodano played less with the top line than I thought, so I should be harder on Monahan. Looks like they still were generally a drag on both Bennett and Backlund as well though so I still think Calgary's D should be shouldering more of the blame.

 

[User1996]

He could but why would you want him to? You want him to run your zone entry, if he's the low support guy he's often gonna end up running both the exit and the entry and he's just not Evgeni Malkin, he's not even Taylor Hall in that regard. Either that or you're asking him to run the exits and have a lesser guy run the entry. Play him to his strengths

Well asking him to come low in support (say hashmarks) really doesn’t force any of the things you claim. In reality, if you’re asking a C to come low with the intention of having better luck support, but still allow Johnny to be blowing the zone, he’ll have even less support for zone entries, which has already been a huge problem for that line.

We need tighter support from all players. That means if the C is coming lower, so should the wings. Teams get in trouble when they need to make 20-40 foot passes to exit their zone and transition through the NZ instead of short 5-10 foot ones.

Exit as a group, enter as a group. Allowing Johnny to be high in the DZ/blow the zone has lead to a separation between him and his support that can’t be overcome no matter how much individual skill he has.

 

[kruezer]

Well asking him to come low in support (say hashmarks) really doesn’t force any of the things you claim. In reality, if you’re asking a C to come low with the intention of having better luck support, but still allow Johnny to be blowing the zone, he’ll have even less support for zone entries, which has already been a huge problem for that line.

We need tighter support from all players. That means if the C is coming lower, so should the wings. Teams get in trouble when they need to make 20-40 foot passes to exit their zone and transition through the NZ instead of short 5-10 foot ones.

Exit as a group, enter as a group. Allowing Johnny to be high in the DZ/blow the zone has lead to a separation between him and his support that can’t be overcome no matter how much individual skill he has.

I have misunderstood you, if you're saying bring the wingers lower then I agree, I thought you were saying make him the furthest down forward in the D-Zone.

 

[User1996]

I may have misunderstood you, if you're saying bring the wingers lower then I agree, I thought you were saying make him the furthest down forward in the D-Zone.

Oh no. Absolutely not.

We’re on the same page then. Cheers

 

[26Mats]

Also as has been said a million times, Gaudreau has a very similar player profile to Patrick Kane just less talented and on the left wing. Gaudreau plays centre from the wing in the same way. Calgary should find a strong defensive centre for him that can produce 50 points, that’s all they need (If not the options on Calgary look for someone else) and either shift Monahan to the second line or just finally let him be a goal scoring RW that he was always meant to be.

What would you want from Montreal?

 

[Kranix]

Also as has been said a million times, Gaudreau has a very similar player profile to Patrick Kane just less talented and on the left wing. Gaudreau plays centre from the wing in the same way. Calgary should find a strong defensive centre for him that can produce 50 points, that’s all they need (If not the options on Calgary look for someone else) and either shift Monahan to the second line or just finally let him be a goal scoring RW that he was always meant to be.

Kane is bigger and can defend the puck better, and has more power in his game. They're not comparable except in talent with the puck.

 

[kruezer]

Kane is bigger and can defend the puck better, and has more power in his game. They're not comparable except in talent with the puck.

Kane & Gaudreau don't necessarily play exactly the same, that's not quite what I was meaning to say but I can see how that's how it came across.

What I was trying to say is they both have a similar profile in how they play center from the wing. Both don't focus on D (frankly Gaudreau probably focuses on D more than Kane) but once they get the puck on their stick in transition and in the offensive zone they dominate the puck, much like other center's playing wing (Wheeler, Huberdeau for example, though both of them are more involved defensively, Wheeler especially, I think a big part of Scheifele's growth defensively came with him playing more and more with Wheeler through the years. Credit to Scheifele though. Huberdeau is probably more involved defensively than Gaudreau, but he does play with Barkov a huge amount so its tougher to separate). Gaudreau compares more to Kane because of his lower defensive involvement, so a stronger C in the D-zone is more valuable.

 

[HighLifeMan]

Huberdeau is one of the least involved players in the league defensively. Such a floater who relies enormously on Barkov to do the heavy lifting. At least that is what I saw this year.

Johnny is definitely more cognizant of his responsibilities but simply can’t execute them at a high level do to his stature.

 

[kruezer]

Huberdeau is one of the least involved players in the league defensively. Such a floater who relies enormously on Barkov to do the heavy lifting. At least that is what I saw this year.

Johnny is definitely more cognizant of his responsibilities but simply can’t execute them at a high level do to his stature.

That's totally fair, I don't watch enough Florida games to make a legit judgement, I'm just going off stats really for him.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

What would you want from Montreal?

Kotka+.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

What would you want from Montreal?

Price @ 50% retained

ON a serious note - I don't think there's really a fit in a trade between the two teams.

 

[26Mats]

Kotka+.

Makes sense from your point of view.

KK (Kotkaniemi) and Suzie (Suzuki) are our two building blocks that we'll build the team around. Both 20 year old centers. No way we'd trade them, especially not for a 27 year old winger that will be a UFA in two years.

 

[26Mats]

Price @ 50% retained

ON a serious note - I don't think there's really a fit in a trade between the two teams.

What are you hoping to land from another team?

 

[Anglesmith]

What are you hoping to land from another team?

People who want to trade our core pieces want to build a new, improved core. So they'd be looking for pieces that can become part of a new core. Not supporting pieces.

 

[26Mats]

People who want to trade our core pieces want to build a new, improved core. So they'd be looking for pieces that can become part of a new core. Not supporting pieces.

Yes, I think a current contender willing to sacrifice the future to win now would be the right trading partner for those people.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

What are you hoping to land from another team?

What I'm hoping, is that the Flames don't trade Gaudreau, as the title of the thread states. What we need is to put Gaudreau with a centreman like Sam Bennett to get the most out of both players.

The piece we should be shopping is Sean Monahan.

 

[26Mats]

What I'm hoping, is that the Flames don't trade Gaudreau, as the title of the thread states. What we need is to put Gaudreau with a centreman like Sam Bennett to get the most out of both players.

The piece we should be shopping is Sean Monahan.

Makes sense. What don't you like about Monahan's game. Just curious to hear from fans that watch their team closely...

In our case, Domi is on the block. Our coach doesn't like him as much as our 3 other centers. Half our fan base agrees with him, half doesn't. In Domi's case, it's really his defensive game and that he's not as effective on the wing. He was pretty good this year for someone who played most of the year with Byron and Lehkonen. I would have liked to have seen him play another year with more offensive wingers.

 

[Fig]

Makes sense. What don't you like about Monahan's game. Just curious to hear from fans that watch their team closely...

In our case, Domi is on the block. Our coach doesn't like him as much as our 3 other centers. Half our fan base agrees with him, half doesn't. In Domi's case, it's really his defensive game and that he's not as effective on the wing. He was pretty good this year for someone who played most of the year with Byron and Lehkonen. I would have liked to have seen him play another year with more offensive wingers.

If a core piece is moved, most of our fans want a quantity for quality move. We'd be looking to package extra assets with someone like Monahan to get a top 20 ish 1C or a superstar 1RW. Possibly we might trade someone like him for two bonafide young top 6 wingers... but that's less likely.

It's more likely we try to compete again with those guys much to many fans chagrin.

 

[26Mats]

If a core piece is moved, most of our fans want a quantity for quality move. We'd be looking to package extra assets with someone like Monahan to get a top 20 ish 1C or a superstar 1RW. Possibly we might trade someone like him for two bonafide young top 6 wingers... but that's less likely.

It's more likely we try to compete again with those guys much to many fans chagrin.

What's wrong with Monahan. Wasn't he trending as a top flight two way center with character?

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Makes sense. What don't you like about Monahan's game.

He's not a play driver down the middle. That's the primary role of a center. If your center isn't driving play with the open ice that this position afford them, then the team's transition game becomes flawed on a fundamental level, which is our greatest team issue.

What's wrong with Monahan. Wasn't he trending as a top flight two way center with character?

lol wut, where'd you hear that?

Sean Monahan is just another Tyler Bozak type who put up good numbers playing with star wingers.

Like Bozak, he's not a top two line centre on a team with championship aspirations. Maybe a 3C (Bozak was 3C on the Blues last year), though I'd rather have a guy like Derek Ryan as a 3C