Does Rodin get another chance ?

[denkiteki]

I think the Canucks will want to play Gagner on the 3rd line - probably at RW as they still seem to believe Sutter is a "foundational" piece at C. I feel he is better used similar to the way Torts used him in CBJ - as a 4th line forward with 1st unit PP time. He's played 3C most of his career, and it has usually resulted in him being over-matched defensively in 5v5 situations. He could also work as RW on the 3rd line with Sutter taking the defensive match ups. But I think there will be a rotating cast between all 3 4th line positions and the wings on the 3rd line.

Yes - I accidentally, in the various cuts and pastes swapped Gaunce and Gagner. Any one of Gaunce, Gagner or Burmistrov could play 4C, but if Burmistrov doesn't impress immediately, I would probably go with a 4th line of Gaunce, Gagner and Dorsett / Labate.

I doubt the Canucks would send Dorsett down until / unless he is well down the path of Higgins / Prust / Booth after injuries. Willie loved DD, but it went beyond that. Benning believes he's a "culture carrier". Best bet for Dorsett would be if he is 100% healthy (a stretch) use him in his proper role (4th line energy forward) and then trade him at the deadline for a 5th round pick to a team needing some playoff "truculence" and depth.

I'm not sure why I thought Rodin was a natural LW - I had in mind that Benning was looking for him to provide some offensive support behind Baertshi last year on LW. But he is listed as a LH shooting RW.

Actually based on ice time, Gagner was used more like a 3rd liner last year (~11m 5v5 per game and 2+ minutes on the PP). His ice time per game was i think 8th among regular forwards on CBJ.

Line-combo suggests he ended up playing with Sedlak and Bjorkstrand on the 3rd line. Statistically, he played the most with Hartnell followed by Sedlak (who basically was 3C for CBJ). It showed Gagner only played 53:28 with Karlsson (4C)... just a bit more than Dubinsky (2C). He actually played with Wennberg (1C) more than either. Again 5v5 stats so ignoring PP time.

I don't watch CBJ so all these stats are from hockeyanalysis.

Also although Gagner is a "natural" C, i wouldn't want him there and i don't think CBJ had him playing C much either. He's very bad in the circle (as in well under 50%) and Gagner is not exactly known for solid defensive play (actually the opposite).

As far as Labate goes, i'll be surprise he makes the team or even being considered. Even for a 4th line role, i would imagine Chaput/Megna/Molino are all considered before him. Green only really used him as a 3rd liner even in Utica so the only way we see Labate is if we have quite a few injuries.

As far as trading Dorsett goes, remember he has 2 years left on his contract. Even if we retain 50% for both seasons, i'm not sure there will be a team that wants him for 1.5 seasons instead of just "maybe" for the playoffs. That's the same reason i suggested (food for though) rather or not we should waive him instead of say Boucher.

 

[denkiteki]

Still thinking that if some of these young players step up in training camp and make it impossible for the Canucks to send them down, then still the possibility of a trade....does a guy like Dorsett have any value around the league? Surely, even at this early stage of his development, Virtanen could bring as much or more than him in fourth line duty.

I think a lot of Canuck fans would like to see this team go "all-in" on the skill department--with guys like Boeser, Rodin and Goldobin all making it...and maybe a finesse d-man like Juolevi replacing either Biega or Wiericoch in a depth role.

That's just plain horrible asset management...

First Juolevi, if his contract doesn't slide, leaves us with 47 contracts. Second it makes him a UFA @ 26 instead of 27. Unless he flat out earns a spot, there's no reason to have Juolevi here except maybe a few games. Plus remember the theory of how D takes longer to develop? Why rush a D when the last player we rushed looked very bad last year?

Also Virtanen did not play all that well last year. Its better to let him (hopefully) dominate the AHL for at least 1/2 a season before even considering him in the NHL. He was not very good in the AHL last year so really i wouldn't even give him consideration for a NHL spot. Also remember last year was also his first impression for Green and Green more or less just kept him on the 3rd line in Utica last year. Can you imagine promoting him 3 lines over the course of an off-season? Its not very likely.

You're probably better off with Molino/Chaput/Megna or even Labate over Virtanen on the 4th line to start the season. Plus remember next season is the LAST season Virtanen is waiver exempt. Might as well take advantage of that and let him play in the AHL since 2018/2019, we'll have to either waive Virtanen or stick him on the 4th line anyways. Also note that even Carcone finished last year (as in the last month+) more productive than Virtanen in Utica (3 points in his last 12 games)...

 

[Bougieman]

Still thinking that if some of these young players step up in training camp and make it impossible for the Canucks to send them down, then still the possibility of a trade....does a guy like Dorsett have any value around the league? Surely, even at this early stage of his development, Virtanen could bring as much or more than him in fourth line duty.

I think a lot of Canuck fans would like to see this team go "all-in" on the skill department--with guys like Boeser, Rodin and Goldobin all making it...and maybe a finesse d-man like Juolevi replacing either Biega or Wiericoch in a depth role.

Well, considering how often the injury bug goes rabid on the Canucks dressing room (in comparison to other teams), there's a very high probability that we end up with a slew of injuries and will need all of these guys at some point or another. Maybe Rodin will get his big chance to impress at that point -- that is -- if he's not again the guy who is injured.

 

[Street Hawk]

Well, considering how often the injury bug goes rabid on the Canucks dressing room (in comparison to other teams), there's a very high probability that we end up with a slew of injuries and will need all of these guys at some point or another. Maybe Rodin will get his big chance to impress at that point -- that is -- if he's not again the guy who is injured.

Dan, Hank, Eriksson, Gagner, Sutter, Dorset, Bo, Sven, Granny are 9 locks on the roster. Dorsett has his role as a 4th line winger. Kills Penalties and can be subbed out for.

Leaves 4 spots if the Canucks opt to carry 8 D.

Burmistrom, Gaunce, Rodin are what I call unproven high picks. Then you have prospects like Boeser, Goldobin, Virtanen, Molino. These 7, along with Boucher contend for those final 4 spots. Gut tells me Molino, Virtanen, Boucher start in the AHL.

I think Megna/Chaput are AHL and emergency call ups to the NHL.

Burmistrom would have to stink in the pre-season for the Canucks to waive him. Wonder if he asks for his release to go to the KHL if that happens, should he clear waivers?

 

[VanJack]

Rodin apparently telling News 1130 that the knee is 100 percent and he's been skating for more than a month......might be one of the most interesting stories to watch in training camp.

Based on a very small sample size last year, this guy can help the Canucks next year if he's indeed 100%...another guy who's not afraid to fire the puck.....Canucks are starting to load up on 'shooters', which is the only way to score goals today in the NHL.

 

[GetFocht]

What I love about Rodin is how he's excellent at protecting the puck along the boards and executing an offensive play in the process.

 

[ginner classic]

Baertschi Horvat Eriksson
Sedin Sedin Rodin
Gaunce Sutter Granlund
Goldobin Burmistrov Gagner
Dorsett

Virtanen, Dahlen and Boeser in the A.

 

[Breakers]

Baertschi Horvat Eriksson
Sedin Sedin Rodin
Gaunce Sutter Granlund
Goldobin Burmistrov Gagner
Dorsett

Virtanen, Dahlen and Boeser in the A.

Yes X1000 ^^^

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

Baertschi Horvat Eriksson
Sedin Sedin Rodin
Gaunce Sutter Granlund
Goldobin Burmistrov Gagner
Dorsett

Virtanen, Dahlen and Boeser in the A.

Are you afraid Goldobin will jump to the KHL if he's in the AHL? Cuz I don't see how he's in the lineup instead of Boeser

 

[Siludin]

Are you afraid Goldobin will jump to the KHL if he's in the AHL? Cuz I don't see how he's in the lineup instead of Boeser

LW is shallow, RW is deep and covered in seaweed. Best that Boeser stays out of the water at all, until they harvest that delicious seaweed for the cows to reduce global methane output and abate global warming.

 

[Street Hawk]

Are you afraid Goldobin will jump to the KHL if he's in the AHL? Cuz I don't see how he's in the lineup instead of Boeser

I'm hoping both Brock and Goldy make the big club. Goldy has 94 points in 119 AHL games. So, at some point he'll need to transition to the NHL.

Brock, I think would be better off playing on Bo's wing ahead of Granny.

I was fine with the Gagner signing. The Burmistrov one, not so much.

I think he'll be in a battle to make the club.

 

[Street Hawk]

LW is shallow, RW is deep and covered in seaweed. Best that Boeser stays out of the water at all, until they harvest that delicious seaweed for the cows to reduce global methane output and abate global warming.

Per Canucks.com, they list Brock, Dorsett, Rodin, and Goldy as RWers.
LW are Dan, Eriksson, Sven
C Bo, Hank, Sutter, Gaunce, Granny, Burmistrov

All comes down to how they perform at camp.

 

[JuniorNelson]

Canucks didn't acquire Gagne for a bottom six role. He might be the second line center if the Sedins are pushed down the chart. This is not a slight on the Sedins, Gagne is not better than Henrik. He is faster.

NHL has evolved and guys that slow things down to be effective are at a disadvantage now. Guys that speed along and shoot have a better chance. Slow lines can be checked into submission by speedy defensemen and back checkers. Every team has guys like that. The key to success for slow players seems to be spot duty. Slow centers must be face off winners. Shooter options should help but Sedins cannot cycle like their glory days. Long cycle sequences mean little without an accompanying shot and are dangerously open to checking and thus breakaways.

Sedins roles have been set in stone recently and this hasn't benefited anybody. They should be setting up speedy kids on different lines. Together, they have declined. Why force it? Daniel setting up Horvat and Boeser sounds better than Daniel and Henrik with Sutter or whomever. Henrik could center a second line if he has speedsters with him.

I expect something like this,

Baertschi Horvat Boeser
Gangne Sutter Eriksson
Sedin Sedin Rodin
Guance Granlund Dorsett

Is it better than,

Sedin Horvat Gagne
Baertschi Sedin Boeser
Guance Sutter Eriksson
Goldobbin Burmistov Granlund

Green has a halo period before the team starts losing. IMO he should use this brief window to try stuff that might work, instead of tried formulas that do not.

 

[Street Hawk]

Sedin Horvat Gagne
Baertschi Sedin Boeser
Guance Sutter Eriksson
Goldobbin Burmistov Granlund

Green has a halo period before the team starts losing. IMO he should use this brief window to try stuff that might work, instead of tried formulas that do not.

Does Green have the guts to split the twins because Hank answered in a post practice interview that he believes that he and Dan work better together than apart. He didn't answer: Coach needs to do what he thinks is best for the team, but I think Dan and I work best together.

See if Green has the jam to do it.

I think he should set up the lines like you have above. I might even drop Burmistrov for Rodin depending on how camp goes.

But, will Green have the twins backing and ok to do so?

Once Daniel hits 999 points, I would re-unite the twins until he hits #1000. Then separate them again.

 

[VanJack]

LW is shallow, RW is deep and covered in seaweed. Best that Boeser stays out of the water at all, until they harvest that delicious seaweed for the cows to reduce global methane output and abate global warming.

Just wow!.....proves that the 'Green (Travis) Revolution' has really hit the Canucks big-time...is our prospect pool comprised of seaweed or just other bottom-feeders?

 

[denkiteki]

Per Canucks.com, they list Brock, Dorsett, Rodin, and Goldy as RWers.
LW are Dan, Eriksson, Sven
C Bo, Hank, Sutter, Gaunce, Granny, Burmistrov

All comes down to how they perform at camp.

They listed every player in 1 position when multiple played multi-positions last year. I.e. Eriksson played a bit with the Sedins last year and was signed to apparently play with them. That makes him a LW/RW.

Granlund for example played a decent amount with suter and really played all 3 forward positions. Gaunce played both LW and C last year... just like Chaput and Megna. Suter also played a bit with the Sedins last year.

Gagner played MORE on RW than C last season with CBJ.

Not everyone can play multi-positions but a lot of players can and often do.

Canucks didn't acquire Gagne for a bottom six role. He might be the second line center if the Sedins are pushed down the chart. This is not a slight on the Sedins, Gagne is not better than Henrik. He is faster.

NHL has evolved and guys that slow things down to be effective are at a disadvantage now. Guys that speed along and shoot have a better chance. Slow lines can be checked into submission by speedy defensemen and back checkers. Every team has guys like that. The key to success for slow players seems to be spot duty. Slow centers must be face off winners. Shooter options should help but Sedins cannot cycle like their glory days. Long cycle sequences mean little without an accompanying shot and are dangerously open to checking and thus breakaways.

Sedins roles have been set in stone recently and this hasn't benefited anybody. They should be setting up speedy kids on different lines. Together, they have declined. Why force it? Daniel setting up Horvat and Boeser sounds better than Daniel and Henrik with Sutter or whomever. Henrik could center a second line if he has speedsters with him.

I expect something like this,

Baertschi Horvat Boeser
Gangne Sutter Eriksson
Sedin Sedin Rodin
Guance Granlund Dorsett

Is it better than,

Sedin Horvat Gagne
Baertschi Sedin Boeser
Guance Sutter Eriksson
Goldobbin Burmistov Granlund

Green has a halo period before the team starts losing. IMO he should use this brief window to try stuff that might work, instead of tried formulas that do not.

As unrealistic as Gagner you might think Gagner plays on the 3rd or 4th line (probably impossible for 4th), its even more unrealistic to expect the Sedins to be on the 3rd line on opening night next season.

I remember 'nucks way having an article like that and i just laughed... do you really expect 14mil+ to be on the 3rd line? The top 2 scorers in franchise history playing on the 3rd line? Maybe if its their final season/end of their career (they haven't announced that yet). Based on last season, Sedins are still good enough to be 2nd liners and as productive as a lot of 2nd lines in the NHL. More so if you ignore those games with Megna/Chaput (made no sense for them to play with those 2 and the Sedins i don't think scored a single 5x5 points with either on the ice last season... and they played together for maybe 15-20 games last season, HA being down, no reference to play with stats to be exact).

As far as splitting them up, that is a possibility and it'll probably be attempted by Green... just like every coach will try it once in a while. Of course your 2nd set of lines doesn't make much sense in that Baertschi was HORRIBLE without Horvat last season. He seems like a much better player with Horvat so really if we're splitting up the Sedins, it might end up making more sense to have D. Sedin play with Horvat/Bae.

The other thing, like i said before, Green has never used a rookie in the top 6 (at least for extended periods) in the 4 years he was in Utica. That makes it unlikely Boeser is a lock in the top 6. Before you think Boeser being an exception, remember Green has had quite a few offensive 1st round pick rookies in Utica before (Jensen, HS, Virtanen, etc). They all started on the 3rd line so i expect Boeser likely will also start on the 3rd line if he makes the team. That likely means Rodin/Eriksson (at least for me) is likely to get a top 6 spot (where you have Boeser) with Gagner likely getting the other spot.

 

[VanJack]

I don't care how good Boeser and Gagner are along the half wall on the pp....without a pp QB from the point, they're gong to be wasted.....that could be Stecher, although not sure about his shot.....Juolevi will get a look, but likely too young....Del Zotto might be at best a second-unit guy.

I really hope they give Subban a longer look in training camp......Canucks pp problems start at the point where their d-men are just too stationary.

 

[denkiteki]

I don't care how good Boeser and Gagner are along the half wall on the pp....without a pp QB from the point, they're gong to be wasted.....that could be Stecher, although not sure about his shot.....Juolevi will get a look, but likely too young....Del Zotto might be at best a second-unit guy.

I really hope they give Subban a longer look in training camp......Canucks pp problems start at the point where their d-men are just too stationary.

Problem with Subban is its not likely you will see Tanev, Stecher, Subban as the 3 RHD on the team. At least not on a team that needs tomplay against quite a few big forwards.

Also vet status on the other Ds makes it hard for them to play in Utica regularly. The way the roster is constructed, Subban is a long shot to make the team just like Stecher last year.

Hutton should get some consideration for PPQB and i think Rodin had experience on the point tho not in the NHL.

 

[VanJack]

I'm kinda stoked that Rodin is even back in the conversation for the Canucks.....he was an impending UFA and actually signed before he could have gone anywhere in the NHL or Europe after July 1st....just a gut feeling, but with his skill-set, if he's healthy there's no way they're keeping him off the opening night roster.

 

[VanJack]

Admitting there's the possibility I'm a little too bullish on Rodin's chances. Any predictions from others posters?

1. He makes the opening night roster, proves to be a decent depth scorer and becomes a fixture on the second-unit pp.
2. He follows his same career path of chronic injury, and either the knees or shoulders act up again and he lands on IR.
3. He ends up in Utica as the first depth call-up.

 

[denkiteki]

Unless he gets hurt/conditioning, i dont see much of a chance Rodin goes to Utica. I think he starts on the 3rd line and ends up getting roughly .6 ppg while moving up and down the top 9.

Of course thats assuming he is healthy at the start of the season. I think the original time table has him being cleared this month but i dont think there has been any update for a while.

 

[jonnygf40]

Baertschi Horvat Eriksson
Sedin Sedin Rodin
Gaunce Sutter Granlund
Goldobin Burmistrov Gagner
Dorsett

Virtanen, Dahlen and Boeser in the A.

If Green knows what he's doing he keeps Sutter away from any line that's expected to create offense:

Baerstchi Horvat Eriksson
Sedin Sedin Granlund
Goldobin Gagner Boeser
Dorsett Sutter Gaunce
Burmistrov/Rodin

 

[VanJack]

If Green knows what he's doing he keeps Sutter away from any line that's expected to create offense:

Baerstchi Horvat Eriksson
Sedin Sedin Granlund
Goldobin Gagner Boeser
Dorsett Sutter Gaunce
Burmistrov/Rodin

Wow!....there's some skill there.....but what a 'soft' lineup...other than Horvat and maybe Boeser, is there anybody who can actually win a board battle?

 

[denkiteki]

If Green knows what he's doing he keeps Sutter away from any line that's expected to create offense:

Baerstchi Horvat Eriksson
Sedin Sedin Granlund
Goldobin Gagner Boeser
Dorsett Sutter Gaunce
Burmistrov/Rodin

Although Gagner can play center, he's horrible in the circle and not good in his own end. Green is also more of a defensive coach so do you really expect 2 offensive center who aren't good defensively?

A more realistic version of your line-up might be swapping Granlund and Gagner. Still doesn't fix the problem of the Sedin line getting pushed around but its more realistic since Granlund is better in the circle and better defensively while Gagner is better offensively (and likely a better fit offensively with the Sedins).

Also not sure if Benning is going to let Green put Sutter on the 4th line... after all isn't Sutter part of the core? Also remember that GAR suggests that Sutter was our best forward last season. I don't agree with that matrix but i don't see Sutter outside our top 9 either.

 

[Pastor Of Muppets]

I'm kinda stoked that Rodin is even back in the conversation for the Canucks.....he was an impending UFA and actually signed before he could have gone anywhere in the NHL or Europe after July 1st....just a gut feeling, but with his skill-set, if he's healthy there's no way they're keeping him off the opening night roster.

Every year a few players come in 'off the radar'....I think Rodin could possibly be the standout at pre season this year...