Does Ottawa Now Flip their pick to Colorado to ensure a lottery selection next year?

[exporta]

No GM is going to give up #4 and essentially tell the owner and season ticket holders that we are going to be even worse next year.

 

[DrJustice]

Their starting goaltender is 47 and lord knows what Dale Tallon has up his sleeve in the off-season. I could argue that Montreal isn't a poor team either when looking at the big picture, but my point is there isn't much certainty in that division because there are really only one or two 'great' teams.

Tampa/Boston/Toronto are all good and should finish top-3 in some order.

Florida and maaayybe Buffalo are probably the only other team in the division that has a real shot at the playoffs. Both have strong #1-2 centers with talent spread around the rosters. Trocheck is especially underrated.

Montreal and Ottawa are both dysfunctional and will need to prove it to everyone if they are to have any success.

Detroit is especially hard to get a good read on. A lot of real bad contracts but historically a great franchise that isn't down for long. I wouldn't expect them to be competitive this season but crazier things have happened.

 

[Sensung]

There is a rational case. Like a previous poster said, Ottawa's only chance at the first overall pick in 2019 is to give this pick to the Avs. IF they believe that they absolutely need a future franchise centre (there are none in this draft) in Jack Hughes by 2019, then it makes since to take that risk. Yes, they could end up 4th or even worse pick, but MAYBE they feel its worth it for that chance.

There is this thing called trades...in one Ottawa could get a first in next year's draft. That pick could turn into a top selection based on the lottery.

Sorry, there is no rational case for giving up this year's pick.

 

[Jarey Curry]

Its not just about the odds. It's also about expected value. If lets say Jack Hughes + 31st overall is worth more than Brady Tkachuk + 4th overall next year, then you can honestly argue that it makes sense to go with the 2019 first round pick.

A bird in hand is worth two in the bush is true. Is it possible to argue that Jack Hughes is worth two Brady Tkachuks (I'm not sure, someone more into the draft may be able to argue).

I think that phrase means one certain Brady Tkachuk is better than two far fetched potential Brady Tkachuks

 

[Warden of the North]

I would. I think they're picking no worse then #4 next year.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

There is this thing called trades...in one Ottawa could get a first in next year's draft. That pick could turn into a top selection based on the lottery.

Sorry, there is no rational case for giving up this year's pick.

Which team is looking to trade their 2019 first round pick who is in the same situation as the Sens?

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I think that phrase means one certain Brady Tkachuk is better than two far fetched potential Brady Tkachuks

Actually, the expected value of a 50/50 shot at two brady tkachuks is the same as a 100% chance at 1 Brady Tkachuk.

 

[egelband]

would draft picks even sign in Ottawa now given the toxic environment from top to bottom?

I mean, the team is bad but it’s certainly not a hopeless situation. They were a pretty good team two seasons back. And have some good chips.

 

[Sensung]

Which team is looking to trade their 2019 first round pick who is in the same situation as the Sens?

You shouldn't use the word ONLY if you don't know what it means.

 

[Nalens Oga]

I find it a bit unethical that the ball is completely in Ottawa's court to decide whether or not to give up the pick. Shouldn't the Avs get a say as well? The way this condition works though seems to suggest that the Sens can either honour or dishonour the condition and the Avs just have to go along with whatever the Sens do.

Also, what's the deadline for the Sens to do this? Because if they tell Colorado like the day of or before the draft that they aren't using the 4th pick this year and the Avs have almost no notice then that's just wrong.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

You shouldn't use the word ONLY if you don't know what it means.

okay, tell me how the sens can acquire the 2019 first overall pick.

 

[Sensung]

okay, tell me how the sens can acquire the 2019 first overall pick.

The same way as any team holding a 1st round draft pick from a non playoff team...win the lottery.

 

[Sensung]

I find it a bit unethical that the ball is completely in Ottawa's court to decide whether or not to give up the pick. Shouldn't the Avs get a say as well? The way this condition works though seems to suggest that the Sens can either honour or dishonour the condition and the Avs just have to go along with whatever the Sens do.

Also, what's the deadline for the Sens to do this? Because if they tell Colorado like the day of or before the draft that they aren't using the 4th pick this year and the Avs have almost no notice then that's just wrong.

Too funny.

 

[Ace]

I find it a bit unethical that the ball is completely in Ottawa's court to decide whether or not to give up the pick. Shouldn't the Avs get a say as well? The way this condition works though seems to suggest that the Sens can either honour or dishonour the condition and the Avs just have to go along with whatever the Sens do.

Also, what's the deadline for the Sens to do this? Because if they tell Colorado like the day of or before the draft that they aren't using the 4th pick this year and the Avs have almost no notice then that's just wrong.

How is a trade detail agreed to by both team unethical?

 

[mouser]

I find it a bit unethical that the ball is completely in Ottawa's court to decide whether or not to give up the pick. Shouldn't the Avs get a say as well? The way this condition works though seems to suggest that the Sens can either honour or dishonour the condition and the Avs just have to go along with whatever the Sens do.

Also, what's the deadline for the Sens to do this? Because if they tell Colorado like the day of or before the draft that they aren't using the 4th pick this year and the Avs have almost no notice then that's just wrong.

It's a hockey trade, not a 101 ethics class. The two teams set the conditions on the trade when they made it. Colorado could have held out for more favorable terms if they wanted to.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I find it a bit unethical that the ball is completely in Ottawa's court to decide whether or not to give up the pick. Shouldn't the Avs get a say as well? The way this condition works though seems to suggest that the Sens can either honour or dishonour the condition and the Avs just have to go along with whatever the Sens do.

Also, what's the deadline for the Sens to do this? Because if they tell Colorado like the day of or before the draft that they aren't using the 4th pick this year and the Avs have almost no notice then that's just wrong.

Colorado already won the trade by a landslide, and now you want to give them control over this pick?

There's greedy, and then there's gluttony....

 

[Claypool]

I would ditch the pick. Get it over with now. Try and trade EK to get a first round pick this draft.

 

[pabst blue ribbon]

If they plan on moving out EK/Stone/Hoffman they should let this pick go and roll the dice in the next draft lottery

If they plan on keeping EK/Stone they should just keep this pick and hope they finish 21st in league standings

 

[bluetuned]

I find it a bit unethical that the ball is completely in Ottawa's court to decide whether or not to give up the pick. Shouldn't the Avs get a say as well? The way this condition works though seems to suggest that the Sens can either honour or dishonour the condition and the Avs just have to go along with whatever the Sens do.

Also, what's the deadline for the Sens to do this? Because if they tell Colorado like the day of or before the draft that they aren't using the 4th pick this year and the Avs have almost no notice then that's just wrong.

You're framing the condition in the wrong way if that's how you interpret it. The condition isn't that Ottawa is required to do X. The condition is that Ottawa gets a choice. There is no requirement to keep the pick this summer, and no honoring or dishonoring. The condition just gave them the option to keep the pick and defer the one going to the Avs if it ended up in the Top 10. Since that is what happened, they now get to choose what to do.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

As bad as Ottawa likely is next year, there's absolutely no guarantee they'll be as bad as some of us think. You've gotta keep the pick this year and take your chances. Even if they're dead last, the odds are still against that pick being #1. Play the percentages here.

 

[boredmale]

How is 2019 stacking up for top end talent(top 5/10) and depth?

 

[drewjenks]

With Karlsson and Hoffman both traded (maybe Duchene too, possible Stone gets offer sheeted too) they are very likely to be bottom 5.

If I were in charge I'd give Colorado the pick this year.

I have a hard time comprehending how much Ottawa actually gave up for 2 years of Duchene. If they do end up giving Colorado the 4th overall, the trade will have boiled down to this:

TO OTTAWA:

- Matt Duchene

FROM OTTAWA:

- 2018 Round 1 Pick | 04 Overall
- 2017 Round 1 Pick | 28 Overall (Shane Bowers)
- 2014 Round 2 Pick | 42 Overall (Vlad Kamenev)
- 2016 Round 2 Pick | 47 Overall (Samuel Girard)
- 2018 Round 2 Pick | 58 Overall
- 2018 Round 3 Pick | 83 Overall
- Andrew Hammond

And now the 4th overall pick has at least as much value as two mid 1st round picks.

SO THEY ESSENTIALLY GAVE UP:

- 3 x Round 1 Picks (mid-rounders)
- 3 x Round 2 Picks (mid-rounders)
- 1 x Round 3 Pick (mid-rounder)
- 1 x Round 7 Pick (Hammond)

That's basically a full rebuild in itself (which has blown my mind since day 1). Duchene was coming off 41 points in 77 games & a -34 season. Those numbers are usually worth a 2nd round pick (especially when you're a UFA in less than 2 years & your cap hit is $6,000,000).

I can't wrap my head around it....especially now that Ottawa is rebuilding.

PLEASE NOTE:

- I'm assuming Ottawa gave up their return for Kyle Turris, rather than Turris himself.
- Turris would have been traded regardless of Duchene (there were negotiation issues).
- If Nashville gave Colorado the above assets, they were willing to give Ottawa the same.

 

[Scott Stevens]

would draft picks even sign in Ottawa now given the toxic environment from top to bottom?

If they don’t want to they can go lick beanbags for a year or whatever it is

I think you’ll find less future nhlers willing to make that sacrifice than internet keyboard warriors project

 

[Eltuna]

I have a hard time comprehending how much Ottawa actually gave up for 2 years of Duchene. If they do end up giving Colorado the 4th overall, the trade will have boiled down to this:

TO OTTAWA:

- Matt Duchene

FROM OTTAWA:

- 2018 Round 1 Pick | 04 Overall
- 2017 Round 1 Pick | 28 Overall (Shane Bowers)
- 2014 Round 2 Pick | 42 Overall (Vlad Kamenev)
- 2016 Round 2 Pick | 47 Overall (Samuel Girard)
- 2018 Round 2 Pick | 58 Overall
- 2018 Round 3 Pick | 83 Overall
- Drew Hammond

And now the 4th overall pick has at least as much value as two mid 1st round picks.

SO THEY ESSENTIALLY GAVE UP:

- 3 x Round 1 Picks (mid-rounders)
- 3 x Round 2 Picks (mid-rounders)
- 1 x Round 3 Pick (mid-rounders)
- 1 x Round 7 Pick (Drew Hammond)

That's basically a full rebuild in itself (which has been blowing my mind since day 1). Duchene was coming off 41 points in 77 games & minus a -34 season. Those numbers are usually worth a 2nd round pick (especially when you're a UFA in less than 2 years & your cap hit is $6,000,000).

My mind is still blown.

PLEASE NOTE:

- I'm assuming Ottawa gave up their return for Kyle Turris, rather than Turris himself.
- Turris would have been traded regardless of Duchene (there were negotiation issues).
- If Nashville gave Colorado the above assets, they were willing to give Ottawa the same.

Comparing it to the McDonagh trade really puts it into perspective. McDonagh was considered a 1D by most fans, outscored Duchene in 2016-2017 (as a defensive dman who was not known for his offence), had the exact same term left at a steal of a cap hit, was traded during the same year, and he had Miller (another player who had outscored Duchene in 2016-2017) added to him. Not only that but Duchene had publicly asked for a trade and everybody knew he had to be traded. Despite all his somehow Sakic got more for Duchene alone than the NYR got for McDonagh + Miller.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

The same way as any team holding a 1st round draft pick from a non playoff team...win the lottery.

How do u propose the Sens acquire that pick, from what team and with what trade pieces?