Does no one else question..

[Daisy Jane]

Bringing back Carlyle has gotten us 8 years of Babcock to look forward to ... So I wouldn't call it a mistake by any means.

I wouldn't call it blind faith either - rather it's the moves that Shanahan has been doing to get the Leafs on the right track in the future that has gotten mostly everyone happy and behind him. So far he's delivering on everything he's said he was going to do ... He talked the talk and is now walking the walk. To date, he's done everything right to get me to buy into the fact that the long term build and process is real.

Right.

has he made some mistakes - yes, and I've questioned a lot of them. But - for me, instead of looking at it from a negative point of view, I choose to look at it from a neutral, or positive one.

I am not saying that Shanahan is perfect. This whole thing could easily blow up in his face. I've said that from the get go. But - he's at least trying to put the Leafs on equal footing with the rest of the league, which the last previous (and super experienced) General Mangers refused to. I am willing to see where this thing goes, and look at it optimistically.

If that = blind faith, then fine.

 

[BertCorbeau]

And maybe that was his plan all along. I don't dispute there's a good chance he's an evil genius. His perceived "bad moves" may all have a solid end game. And you can't win them all. I'm hoping that's the case.

Fair enough and that's to say I haven't liked all of Shanny's moves .. But the bigger picture is more important with the Leafs now, so it will take some time to see it develop.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

?

+Fired Carlyle, got Babcock, timing was everything
+Got the board to finally agree to the tear down and give a proper rebuild even if we did waste a season to get to that point across
+Made it so Kessel wasn't the focus of the team anymore, trading from a position of weakness still got good quality rebuilding pieces back for the future
+Drafted Marner

Well said.

So far so good.

 

[tml19]

Why does is matter what title they have. Even after a "gm" is hired he will be added to the list of core managment. (Shanny,Dubas,Hunter) It is clear they will only hire someone when they feel that person is also commited to the plan and will not steer away from it. IMO the gm will basically be what Dubas does now +PR

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

And maybe that was his plan all along. I don't dispute there's a good chance he's an evil genius. His perceived "bad moves" may all have a solid end game. And you can't win them all. I'm hoping that's the case.

At the end of the day as a GM/person in charge, you're not evaluated based on how many good moves vs. bad moves you've made, you're evaluated based on the process you've decided to take in order for your team to become Cup contenders and whether you've constructed the team that maintains its success long-term

The fact that Shanny, unlike any previous regime has shown a willingness to take a step back and seemingly deconstructing this team (while collecting risk free assets) regardless of the backlash it may receive from its fans, gets a lot of props from me

 

[Darcy Tucker]

If we had a more established/experienced GM in place would we have gotten a better return in the Kessel deal?

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

If we had a more established/experienced GM in place would we have gotten a better return in the Kessel deal?

Impossible to say. If we had a more estabalished/experienced GM (especially if they had previous success), do they think their a miracle worker and try and give this core of Bozak, Phaneuf, Kessel, Lupul, JVR, etc... another shot and maybe even trade our prospects to give this core a boost?

 

[Suntouchable13]

If we had a more established/experienced GM in place would we have gotten a better return in the Kessel deal?

Only in fantasy land where people think that Kessel is worth an arm and a leg.

 

[RomanianLeafs]

Who cares if u like it or not?? I like this group calling all the shots i don.t care about experience

 

[Leaf Lander]

?

-Brought back Carlyle
-Set franchise records in losing his first year
-Still walking funny from the Kessel trade
-Passed on Hanifan

U can hardly blame them for this season


Marner is a keeper Hanifin would been great but wrre gonna be drafting high for th next few yrs anyways


We will get a big stud dman via the draft to complement the great young D we got in rielly Hopefully next yr we will land a dman in the first rnd

 

[RomanianLeafs]

?

-Brought back Carlyle
-Set franchise records in losing his first year
-Still walking funny from the Kessel trade
-Passed on Hanifan

How can someone after a full year of draft talking still can spell Hanifin wrong is beyond me..yet you have the guts to accuse the management for passing on him...i wanted Hanifin more but i am thrilled with Marner

 

[Leafs at Knight]

I honestly don't think some people around here will make it through a full rebuild, people are already starting to lose it with the Kessel trade and drafting Marner? for some reason.

Good luck.

 

[Quares27]

why would I be? if they're all knowledgeable about hockey then i couldnt care less if they havent been NHL GMs

 

[Daisy Jane]

I honestly don't think some people around here will make it through a full rebuild, people are already starting to lose it with the Kessel trade and drafting Marner? for some reason.

Good luck.

the fear is, I think some people don't think Shanahan is capable of being a GM. (and I would argue because he doesn't have traditional experience. Like I said though when some really respected General Managers and Jim Rutherford say that Shanahan is being underestimated in his knowledge of what he's doing, then that should stand for something.

And I think anytime Shanahan does something no one likes (or something "daunting') faces the the organization someone is going to say "hey. I really wish we had an experienced GM, because it would be better" (how, I don't know, but I guess it's that kind of security blanket that people can tuck into).

 

[BlueBaron]

the fear is, I think some people don't think Shanahan is capable of being a GM. (and I would argue because he doesn't have traditional experience. Like I said though when some really respected General Managers and Jim Rutherford say that Shanahan is being underestimated in his knowledge of what he's doing, then that should stand for something.

And I think anytime Shanahan does something no one likes (or something "daunting') faces the the organization someone is going to say "hey. I really wish we had an experienced GM, because it would be better" (how, I don't know, but I guess it's that kind of security blanket that people can tuck into).

Pretty nicely summed up. It go's back to that old adage you can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time.

No experience will be a key criticism for the next while by the armchair GM's that "know better" . Like stating not getting Hanifin over Marner (which was my initial preference) was a huge mistake and sign of inexperience, it's just ridiculous (and astonishingly arrogant) . It will take 4-6 years before we can really judge things like that.

I am not going to say everything they have done is perfect but I have 0 issue with the direction they have taken us so far.

 

[showtime8]

Pretty nicely summed up. It go's back to that old adage you can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time.

No experience will be a key criticism for the next while by the armchair GM's that "know better" . Like stating not getting Hanifin over Marner (which was my initial preference) was a huge mistake and sign of inexperience, it's just ridiculous (and astonishingly arrogant) . It will take 4-6 years before we can really judge things like that.

I am not going to say everything they have done is perfect but I have 0 issue with the direction they have taken us so far.

I guess the only issue is Shanahan & Dubas and staff don't get the benefit of the doubt. Like if you had any other GM, everyone would have assumed that the deal they got would have been the most you could get for Kessel. With the current group, people are going to expect that they left something on the table.

And that's fine for people being skeptical of what they can do. But you have to trust until they do something that really hits the fan.

 

[showtime8]

I honestly don't think some people around here will make it through a full rebuild, people are already starting to lose it with the Kessel trade and drafting Marner? for some reason.

Good luck.

Good riddance then.

It's not like the results will be any different than what we've had to endure over the past 10 years.

 

[mikeyz]

Really wish we had a GM like Brian Burke. All that experience would've helped this organization through these rough years

So you would want the Leafs to be garbage for the foreseeable future?

Burke and Nonis are the reasons why this team is in the predicament that they are in.

I wouldn't want those 2 anywhere near this rebuild

 

[Daisy Jane]

I am not going to say everything they have done is perfect but I have 0 issue with the direction they have taken us so far.

exactly.

Like. Has Shanahan made some questionable moves? yes. 100 percent absolutely But there is no perfect GM. There's no perfect President. Everyone has mis-fires and mulligans and oh you lucky, lucky man moments. I think Shanahan is about .500. when it is all said and done.

I have said all season, I'm not going to put all the sunshine on Shanahan and he gets credit for all the happy happy things, and all the rain on Nonis for all the bad, crappy things. If - we want to blame Shanahan for allowing Nonis to do his job - then we should. And I think he'll be the first person that he'll wear the stink on that. He was - at the end of the day, over-seeing a franchise worst record in every, forseeable way.

However. the majority of his actions have been consistent for me.
He's not blowing the cap on people who don't make sense
He's not not drafting for positions or role models or what not
He's trying to get the best minds into the organizations, period
He addressed a lot of the problems that was flawed within the entire organization

the Leafs were bad - but for me - he's trying to make sure that everything under the Maple Leafs jurisdiction (ECHL, AHL, NHL) is the best, and a feeder system. that's something every single person that came before him ignored.


as long as the path is consistent, and makes sense the overall view of what he wants to accomplish - I'm happy. I'm not going to like everything, but I believe this will work. and if it doesn't, Shanahan corrected a lot of things that was flawed with in the organization, things that two experienced people caused. So that's a plus there too.

 

[Daisy Jane]

So you would want the Leafs to be garbage for the foreseeable future?

Burke and Nonis are the reasons why this team is in the predicament that they are in.

I wouldn't want those 2 anywhere near this rebuild

'twas sarcasm dear.

 

[tooncesmeow]

the fear is, I think some people don't think Shanahan is capable of being a GM. (and I would argue because he doesn't have traditional experience. Like I said though when some really respected General Managers and Jim Rutherford say that Shanahan is being underestimated in his knowledge of what he's doing, then that should stand for something.

And I think anytime Shanahan does something no one likes (or something "daunting') faces the the organization someone is going to say "hey. I really wish we had an experienced GM, because it would be better" (how, I don't know, but I guess it's that kind of security blanket that people can tuck into).

I don't think Shanahan is bad, but the Leafs should have had an experienced GM for this. The lack of rumors suggest the Leafs didn't really talk to that many trade partners, which is scary, and the fact that Pittsburgh's assistant GM went on Sportsnet and said "Well it really started at the draft last week, thats when we started kicking tires" is a little scary.

Take for instance Burke who you could argue is the best trading GM the Leafs have had since '93 Fletcher. 2 1st round picks and a 2nd, value-wise, doesn't look bad for a first line player. Dougie Hamilton got that and people were saying it was underrated. If the Leafs finished 9th in the East or in the palyoffs, the Kessel trade would ahve been in the Leafs favor, right? What about clearing Blake? Phaneuf trade? Beauchemin trade? Lebda for Franson + Lombardi? Kaberle for a 1st, 2nd, and Colborne?

The thing to note in all of these is that Burke took WEEKS to MONTHS to put these together. There were always lots of rumors flying but you understood that this wasn't a deal to be put together in a week. Kesler and Ryan trades also took longer then a week, so to trade away your 7-year contracted star player in less then a week is a little scary, it screams shortsightedness, or impatience.

I agree that you'll always downgrade when you trade a franchise player (otherwise why would people trade for them?) but it's not exactly encouraging that Shanahan thought that was the best trade that could come up in 7 years of Kessel. Also for anyone who is goign to point it out, you can always ask your player to waive their NTC, its not set in stone, those were just 8 teams they didnt have to ask him to waive for.

Going forward I don't know if the Leafs need an experienced GM but at least get someone who's ready to a transition from AGM to GM, there needs to be a veteran who has the patience to wait out these things.

 

[Stephen]

They're doing the things that I want to see done, so I see no problem with how they arrive at their decisions.

 

[RyanOhReally]

So is the experience thing again? Really? Don't we have threads on this topic already?

 

[Anthrax442]

Really wish we had a GM like Brian Burke. All that experience would've helped this organization through these rough years

 

[Community]

I bet people said the same think about Yzerman... Tampa Bay is laughing about it now.